Cremation incident in restaurant – Over Reacted?

[Capt Caveman]

It's a social no no to fuck dead people too. Just because something is socially unacceptable doesn't mean it's always wrong for society to hold these views.

Also illegal except in WI.

 

[lxskllr]

Ashes of a deceased person are not a protected class. You took something I said and made an argument of something completely unrelated.

There's no such thing as a protected class. It's an artificial, bullshit distinction that is logically, Constitutionally, and morally invalid. Cogman's example was perfect, and similar what I said earlier. I thought my example would get the old neurons firing in order, but I guess I was wrong. There's either intentional trolling going on in this thread, or people are dumber than I ever suspected.

 

[JulesMaximus]

There's no such thing as a protected class. It's an artificial, bullshit distinction that is logically, Constitutionally, and morally invalid. Cogman's example was perfect, and similar what I said earlier. I thought my example would get the old neurons firing in order, but I guess I was wrong. There's either intentional trolling going on in this thread, or people are dumber than I ever suspected.

Sure there is. That's why it is illegal to discriminate against someone based on race, religious beliefs, or sexual orientation. Fuck, they even use the term "protected class" in legal and official government documents.

 

[Cogman]

Ashes of a deceased person are not a protected class. You took something I said and made an argument of something completely unrelated.

How is it unrelated? I proposed a simple substitution of social taboos using one that I was fairly certain you would switch sides had the situation been changed. They are equivalent in the fact that the social taboos I substituted in are taboos that would not affect anyone else in the room except those that are offended by those sorts of taboos.

The fact is, having the remains of someone in an urn is NOT something that everyone find offensive or creepy. The only thing that determines whether someone finds that creepy is personal biases. The people in the restaurant were not hurting the OP or anyone around them. The OP was a dick for getting them kicked out.

It's a social no no to fuck dead people too. Just because something is socially unacceptable doesn't mean it's always wrong for society to hold these views.

Um, that was part of my point.

Racism=wrong
Antisemitism=wrong
Fucking dead people=wrong (but not wrong to stigmatize those who do it)

I never said any of these thing were right.

Bringing the remains of a dead loved one to a restaurant=highly questionable, I can certainly see why some people might have a problem with it anyway.

My .02

Let me put it this way. If the people who brought the remains never mentioned that they had it and the OP never knew that they had it, is there any possible way that their actions of bringing the remains to the restaurant could have hurt the OP?

There is no question here. Live and let live.

 

[lxskllr]

Sure there is. That's why it is illegal to discriminate against someone based on race, religious beliefs, or sexual orientation. Fuck, they even use the term "protected class" in legal and official government documents.

I don't care what a bunch of pandering criminals call it. It's still wrong. Just because some dumb ass codifies something, that doesn't make it right. Blacks were 3/5 of a person at one time. Was that wrong, or did blacks evolve to become a whole person? If they evolved, when did that evolution occur? Sure was quick, evolving within a century....

 

[classy]

Okay, Okay, Alright. I did some digging

Here is the link to the
http://www.cfb.ca.gov/licensing/crd_booklet.pdf

California Cremated Remains Disposers Booklet: Complying With California Law

I am linking this because it is a formal copy for California and in it states On page 9 of 12 the following

§ 7054.6. (a) Cremated remains may be removed in a durable container from the place of cremation or interment and kept in the dwelling owned or occupied by the person having the right to control disposition of the remains under Section 7100, or the durable container holding the cremated remains may be kept in a church or religious shrine, if written permission of the church or religious shrine is obtained and there is no conflict with local use permit requirements or zoning laws, if the removal is under the authority of a permit for disposition granted under Section 103060. The placement, in any place, of six or more cremated remains under this section does not constitute the place a cemetery, as defined in Section 7003.

Now it clearly states the remains are to be stored at the dwelling owned by the owner. No where does it state that the person has the right or should be able to carry the remains in a public place even if they are in a jar.

The OP list Kansas as his location and while I did not find an official law pdf, I did come across the Kansas Government Mortuary Website.

http://www.kansas.gov/ksbma/facts.html#anchor328739

And on the website it states something very similar to California law

Cremated remains may be disposed of in a number of ways: privately scattered, scattered at sea, scattered by airplane in unpopulated areas, interred in a cemetery, placed in a niche in a columbarium, or kept by the family in their home. It is recommended that you ask permission from land owners before scattering ashes on property that you do not own.

No where does it state a person has the right to carry remains around in a public establishment. It states you can keep them at home, a cemetary, or religous place. You can't even scatter them just anywhere.

So based on these laws I think it would be safe to say, very safe to conclude that it probably violates local health and safety laws to have an urn even sealed in a public restaurant.

And apologies are accepted for the rude and harsh behavior.

 

[Cogman]

Okay, Okay, Alright. I did some digging

Here is the link to the
http://www.cfb.ca.gov/licensing/crd_booklet.pdf

California Cremated Remains Disposers Booklet: Complying With California Law

I am linking this because it is a formal copy for California and in it states On page 9 of 12 the following



Now it clearly states the remains are to be stored at the dwelling owned by the owner. No where does it state that the person has the right or should be able to carry the remains in a public place even if they are in a jar.

The OP list Kansas as his location and while I did not find an official law pdf, I did come across the Kansas Government Mortuary Website.

http://www.kansas.gov/ksbma/facts.html#anchor328739

And on the website it states something very similar to California law



No where does it state a person has the right to carry remains around in a public establishment. It states you can keep them at home, a cemetary, or religous place. You can't even scatter them just anywhere.

So based on these laws I think it would be safe to say, very safe to conclude that it probably violates local health and safety laws to have an urn even sealed in a public restaurant.

And apologies are accepted for the rude and harsh behavior.

What is legal and what is right are NOT the same thing. Even if it was against public health codes I would STILL think that the OP did the wrong thing.

 

[classy]

What is legal and what is right are NOT the same thing. Even if it was against public health codes I would STILL think that the OP did the wrong thing.

And you are entitled to your opinion, but to attack the guy like many of you have, you are in the wrong. After reading a little bit I have little doubt the people violated health laws by bringing that urn in a public eating place. If he felt it was something he didn't want to eat around, I think he was within his legal right. Forget all the other bs.

 

[zinfamous]

IF they needed to mourn, take your dried up and burnt up mom to the proper place to mourn. That would not be the local Applebees..................

perhaps you should tell them the proper place to mourn?

perhaps you will be just as receptive when someone tells you where you can properly mourn your loved one?

jesus tap dancing christ, I see a bunch of people in this thread that have never experienced death. bunch of naive pussies.

 

[Cogman]

And you are entitled to your opinion, but to attack the guy like many of you have, you are in the wrong. After reading a little bit I have little doubt the people violated health laws by bringing that urn in a public eating place. If he felt it was something he didn't want to eat around, I think he was within his legal right. Forget all the other bs.

Doing stuff that because you are "in your legal right" is a pretty poor excuse for being an ass.

 

[NetWareHead]

So based on these laws I think it would be safe to say, very safe to conclude that it probably violates local health and safety laws to have an urn even sealed in a public restaurant.

No.

And again. There is nothing biologically unsafe or "bio-hazardous" about cremated remains. There is absolutely no health or public safety issue whatsoever. Laws like this exists to prevent offending people like the OP who think it is "ghoulish".

 

[classy]

perhaps you should tell them the proper place to mourn?

perhaps you will be just as receptive when someone tells you where you can properly mourn your loved one?

jesus tap dancing christ, I see a bunch of people in this thread that have never experienced death. bunch of naive pussies.

They have the right to mourn and your analogy that the few of us who disagree with the urn issue are somehow insensitive is stupid. Its a ridiculous notion and doesn't even deserve a response really. Disagreeing with the family bringing an urn into a public restaurant doesn't mean I don't sympathize with their lost. Dumbass

 

[classy]

No.

And again. There is nothing biologically unsafe or "bio-hazardous" about cremated remains. There is absolutely no health or public safety issue whatsoever. Laws like this exists to prevent offending people like the OP who think it is "ghoulish".

I don't know if for fact if it does violate health laws. After reading I have little doubt it does. If its a law then your opinon why a law exists is completely irrelevant and doesn't mean the law should be ignored.

 

[CZroe]

Okay, Okay, Alright. I did some digging

Here is the link to the
http://www.cfb.ca.gov/licensing/crd_booklet.pdf

California Cremated Remains Disposers Booklet: Complying With California Law

I am linking this because it is a formal copy for California and in it states On page 9 of 12 the following



Now it clearly states the remains are to be stored at the dwelling owned by the owner. No where does it state that the person has the right or should be able to carry the remains in a public place even if they are in a jar.

The OP list Kansas as his location and while I did not find an official law pdf, I did come across the Kansas Government Mortuary Website.

http://www.kansas.gov/ksbma/facts.html#anchor328739

And on the website it states something very similar to California law



No where does it state a person has the right to carry remains around in a public establishment. It states you can keep them at home, a cemetary, or religous place. You can't even scatter them just anywhere.

So based on these laws I think it would be safe to say, very safe to conclude that it probably violates local health and safety laws to have an urn even sealed in a public restaurant.

And apologies are accepted for the rude and harsh behavior.

Things that are not explicitly defined as legal or illegal are LEGAL until they are explicitly addressed. THAT'S THE WAY THE LAW WORKS. Anything else sets a fundamentally bad precedent for government power.

You are the SECOND idiot I've had to admonish for this here in the last week. What is happening to this country?!

 

[classy]

Things that are not explicitly defined as legal or illegal are LEGAL until they are explicitly addressed. THAT'S THE WAY THE LAW WORKS. Anything else sets a fundamentally bad precedent for government power.

You are the SECOND idiot I've had to admonish for this here in the last week. What is happening to this country?!

Well it explicity states where cremated remains can be kept.

Public restaurant not found. So you should make that 3 idiots this week, just look in a mirror for the 3rd.

 

[waggy]

comon classy you can't be that ignorant? the law says they can be kept in the dwelling to protect people to keep them. NOT to say that is the only place they are allowed.

IF they didn't want them in such places as a restaurant it would be said.

no law says you have a right to a car. yet you got one don't you? you just have to drive on roads (and such)

fuck stop being a idiot. there is NO LAW saying they couldn't take it into the restaurant. should they? well that's debatable. Did the OP over react? yes. is he idiot for continuing to argue and say it against health codes? hell yes.


but in no way is it against any law.

 

[JulesMaximus]

How is it unrelated? I proposed a simple substitution of social taboos using one that I was fairly certain you would switch sides had the situation been changed. They are equivalent in the fact that the social taboos I substituted in are taboos that would not affect anyone else in the room except those that are offended by those sorts of taboos.

The fact is, having the remains of someone in an urn is NOT something that everyone find offensive or creepy. The only thing that determines whether someone finds that creepy is personal biases. The people in the restaurant were not hurting the OP or anyone around them. The OP was a dick for getting them kicked out.


Um, that was part of my point.


I never said any of these thing were right.



Let me put it this way. If the people who brought the remains never mentioned that they had it and the OP never knew that they had it, is there any possible way that their actions of bringing the remains to the restaurant could have hurt the OP?

There is no question here. Live and let live.

Now we're doing what ifs?

Okay, what if they opened the urn to look at the ashes? What if they accidentally knocked it over and spilled the ashes on the table? What if they put ashes in their iced tea and drank it? What if they filled the pepper shaker with it?

Why the fuck is anyone here defending the so called "right" of someone to bring the remains of a human being into a public eating establishment? That's what I want to know.

There probably isn't a law specifically against it because nobody ever thought someone would be stupid enough to bring human remains into a restaurant.

 

[busydude]

There probably isn't a law specifically against it because nobody ever thought someone would be stupid enough to bring human remains into a restaurant.

They are not human remains duh.

 

[JulesMaximus]

perhaps you should tell them the proper place to mourn?

perhaps you will be just as receptive when someone tells you where you can properly mourn your loved one?

jesus tap dancing christ, I see a bunch of people in this thread that have never experienced death. bunch of naive pussies.

We have those places. They are called churches, funeral homes, your own home, or the homes of friends and loved ones.

I experienced the death of my Father a few months ago. I didn't mourn his loss at work. That's why companies give you bereavement pay...so you can mourn in private and not make everyone else uncomfortable or depressed. I sure as hell wouldn't bring his remains into a public eating establishment to mourn his loss in front of a bunch of strangers. It's called common courtesy.

 

[Cogman]

Now we're doing what ifs?

You've obviously never had a philosophical debate, or you suck at it. What ifs are the key to getting someone to better define their views for proper debate. Since you don't actually want to answer any of the questions I've posed to you, I can tell you really don't want to discuss the matter, rather you want to take the position "I'm right, you're wrong".

Okay, what if they opened the urn to look at the ashes? What if they accidentally knocked it over and spilled the ashes on the table?

The ashes would be sterile. The act of burning the ashes removed any bacteria and pretty much leaves you with carbon and calcium. Nothing dangerous or hazardous.

What if they put ashes in their iced tea and drank it?

So? Weird yes, but they aren't hurting anyone else.

What if they filled the pepper shaker with it?

At that point their actions would be affecting others and the op would be within his right to contact the manager and get them kicked out.

Why the fuck is anyone here defending the so called "right" of someone to bring the remains of a human being into a public eating establishment?

Because they were not hurting any other person with these actions.

There probably isn't a law specifically against it because nobody ever thought someone would be stupid enough to bring human remains into a restaurant.

Or because lawmakers realize that it isn't something that harms the general public.

 

[FDF12389]

Edited.

 

[waggy]

We have those places. They are called churches, funeral homes, your own home, or the homes of friends and loved ones.

I experienced the death of my Father a few months ago. I didn't mourn his loss at work. That's why companies give you bereavement pay...so you can mourn in private and not make everyone else uncomfortable or depressed. I sure as hell wouldn't bring his remains into a public eating establishment to mourn his loss in front of a bunch of strangers. It's called common courtesy.

they do not give you bereavement pay so you can mourn in a church, house or whatever. its so you can mourn period.

mourning is not something confined to a church or home.

really that's fucking stupid. you mourn where you feel its right. if the person enjoyed the ball field go there. if they enjoyed a special tree or whatnot go t here. if they enjoyed apple bees then go there.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Or because lawmakers realize that it isn't something that harms the general public.

Please...you think lawmakers gave any serious thought to this possibility at any point in history?

I'm never said the ashes are a public hazard. I'm simply saying that I understand the stigma associated with death and human remains. I can understand why people would be freaked out by it and/or turned off by someone bringing an urn with the ashes of a loved one into a public eating establishment. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING!!!

I'm not coming down on the OP like everyone else has, I'm playing devil's advocate to a certain degree and I stand by the points I've made. Deal with it.

 

[Cogman]

Please...you think lawmakers gave any serious thought to this possibility at any point in history?

I'm never said the ashes are a public hazard. I'm simply saying that I understand the stigma associated with death and human remains. I can understand why people would be freaked out by it and/or turned off by someone bringing an urn with the ashes of a loved one into a public eating establishment. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING!!!

I'm not coming down on the OP like everyone else has, I'm playing devil's advocate to a certain degree and I stand by the points I've made. Deal with it.

In other words, your trolling. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[JulesMaximus]

they do not give you bereavement pay so you can mourn in a church, house or whatever. its so you can mourn period.

mourning is not something confined to a church or home.

really that's fucking stupid. you mourn where you feel its right. if the person enjoyed the ball field go there. if they enjoyed a special tree or whatnot go t here. if they enjoyed apple bees then go there.

You're right, sometimes people do it at cemetaries, in cars, in the shower, out in the wilderness. I suppose they could even rent out a hall or restaurant to do this (although I can't recall ever seeing anyone do that personally) and I've NEVER seen anyone bring an urn into a restaurant filled with strangers to mourn publicly. Just seems very odd to me.