Cremation incident in restaurant – Over Reacted?

[edro]

What a pansy.
Health code violation?! LOL

If you and your wife actually talked to each other you wouldn't have been listening in on the other table.

 

[Meghan54]

Well, upon urging from SlickSnake, I searched for cremated remains and hazardous materials and came up empty.

What I did find is that cremated remains are NOT considered hazardous materials by the USPS and can be mailed anywhere, anytime. It is considered a restricted material vs. a hazardous material, but only because of the various states' requirements for delivery only to the "authorizing agent" who is responsible for authorizing the remains to be cremated in the first place....family member, etc.

Now, while I didn't search every single state, I did get North Carolina, Oregon, Utah and Montana, and in none of those states are remains considered hazardous.

What they do speak to over and over are inclusions within the body that may be hazardous....pacemakers and the like. Other than that, no mention of the remains, after complete cremation, having to be considered hazardous, which is the subject here. I have noticed SS is mixing the requirements for cremation and what's being talked about....when the relatives receive the cremated remains, two completely different subjects.

Oregon, interestingly, has addressed scattering of remains.

Parts are quoted here:

OREGON MORTUARY AND CEMETERY BOARD
NOTICE
TO: INTERESTED PARTIES
FROM: DAVID KOACH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
DATE: JULY 26, 2007
SUBJECT: SCATTERING CREMATED HUMAN REMAINS


Processed cremated human remains, sometimes called ashes, are a sanitary natural substance. There are no specific statutory restrictions on scattering cremated remains. Oregon law is silent on the matter. The only applicable administrative rule provides that when cremated remains are scattered by a funeral home, as opposed to the family, the ID tag must be made part of the funeral home's permanent record.

Although there are state and federal land, air and water pollution standards, such environmental quality laws make no specific mention of cremated remains - which are just the mineral content of bone that is not consumed in the cremation process. Once processed to remove metal and reduce bone fragments to unrecognizable dimensions, cremated remains are for all intents and purposes non-toxic, non-hazardous, non-polluting.

From this .pdf: http://www.oregon.gov/MortCem/Consumer_Information/Scattering.pdf?ga=t



Kinda says what the majority are saying.....absolutely no danger, no toxicity, nothing. Even the EPA doesn't classifly remains as toxic, and the USPS doesn't classify remains as hazardous, either.

Onus is on SlickSnake to now back up his version of reality.

 

[Elganja]

snip

lol owned.... I wonder what bullshit SS will come up with now.

OP, you are an ass and overreacted

 

[Raizinman]

Most of the posters here are disingenuous at best in their snide responses, and just full of self hatred and loathing they project on others at worst. Nice crowd of misfits, huh?

It certainly makes me feel better that they argue against this. That confirms I was right.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Biohazard Shmiohazard.

There are lots of reasons why a restaurant can either refuse service and/or ask a patron to leave. They set the rules of admittance for example:
1) A woman with too much perfume on
2) A kid without a shirt or shoes
3) A crying baby or screaming kid
4) A man without a jacket
5) Customers acting offensively (shouting or cursing)
6) No children or babies allowed
7) You cannot stay over 2 hour

Restaurants are allowed to be old-fashioned - they can set any codes of dress and behavior they want. Provided the Human Rights Act is not breached (see below), restaurants may impose conditions of entry or ask you to leave.

There are many grounds restaurants can't discriminate on, including sex, religion, race, disability, and age (except where the person is under 16).

The point is that an urn containing a dead persons ashes whether biohazard or not is also at the discretion of the restaurant manager. Should a customer ‘enquire’ about a potential problem, it is the duty of the restaurant to check it out and decide if anything needs to be done. Applebee's looked into this and decided it was best to take action.

NOTE: Most children are taught at an early age that calling others names is childish and now falls into the ‘bully’ category. Is this how you act around your family your friends and work? If you don’t like or agree with something you resort to name calling? Obviously you require the need to ‘bully’ to convince others of your weak arguments. Your parents and school did not teach you correctly.

Keep on making excuses for your POOR behavior. I suggest you and your wife grow up and learn some manners. You lied to the manager b/c both of you are ignorant asshats and were able to manipulate a stupid Applebee's restaurant manager.

You asked for our opinion and outside of one troll who can't provide a single shred of evidence to back-up his stupidity, you continue to think that someone how you were in the right. Maybe, you should learn from this incident, educate your wife and call the restaurant and inform the manager that you were wrong. Grow up...

 

[Elganja]

Keep on making excuses for your POOR behavior. I suggest you and your wife grow up and learn some manners. You lied to the manager b/c both of you are ignorant asshats and were able to manipulate a stupid Applebee's restaurant manager.

You asked for our opinion and outside of one troll who can't provide a single shred of evidence to back-up his stupidity, you continue to think that someone how you were in the right. Maybe, you should learn from this incident, educate your wife and call the restaurant and inform the manager that you were wrong. Grow up...

maybe slicksnake is raizinman's wife

 

[Bignate603]

How many times do I need to restate this, and in how many ways before you and the rest finally comprehend and understand it?

There's a crap load of stuff that can be considered a biohazard or a hazardous waste product. Some of it is clearly spelled out in hazmat response guides and training manuals. That don't mean EVERY SINGLE CHEMICAL or BIOLOGICAL COMPOUND has a LAW specifically written about it, or concerning its cleanup from a response team.

And just because there is not a specific law addressing something as a biohazard or hazardous waste does not mean an environmental enforcement type of person such as a fire marshal or a health inspector cannot designate it as such, say in the event that a cleanup has to take place.

You can pretend it's perfectly harmless all you want too, and make flawed comparisons like everyone else if you choose too. But that don't make you right, and me wrong.

And Mr. Hospitality law up there is also being disingenuous in his answers, because he knows full well a health inspector can decide himself about these matters, and has the absolute final say until it goes before a judge, if it gets that far.

Human ashes aren't exactly rare. If they were a biohazard we'd be finding information saying so. Up to this point we've found plenty of places saying that they aren't dangerous and not a single place that says they are. I wonder why that is?

So far you've refused to give a single shred of proof, just your own opinion. Why should we believe you when your argument doesn't make sense and every single source we can locate says the exact opposite?

 

[NetWareHead]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusTheBrewer
I have worked in the food industry as Chef and manager for more than 30 years. In at least a dozen States, I can categorically deny that cremated remains are considered a health hazard in a restaurant or any public place. SlickSnake is a troll and the OP definitely over reacted. I think the OP should worry more about the hundreds of people who ate off the silverware and plates they were served on before he starts worrying about completely sterilized remains.


I'm not a troll, dear sir, but you certainly are if you think simple restaurant management somehow takes the place of working for the health or fire departments.

I don't recall taking a course in handing cremated remains for restaurant management or food handler certification, OH SNAP, that's because it WAS NOT OFFERED. They also did not teach me to fly the space shuttle or pilot a hang glider. But that would be cool, though, if they did, wouldn't it?

I have 20 years of involvement in the restaurant industry and the level of cooperation between food establishments and health departments and inspectors is much greater than you claim. Restaurant management is not "simple" and chefs/proprietors are required to take courses and acquire certifications in sanitation and other fields. There is no course for cremated remains because there is no threat from them. They are ashes. If ashes were a threat then all wood and coal burning pizza ovens would be shut down since the burning fuel and ashes are in the same oven space as the food.

 

[SunnyD]

We went last night to Applebee’s restaurant. In the booth next to us there was a group of 4 people. They were talking about the urn they brought into the restaurant with them sitting on the table, which was the remains of their mother. My wife and I got quiet and started listening carefully after we overheard that. Seems their mother just died and they were taking her, in the urn to some of her favorite places before the internment. My wife and I found the idea of a cremated body in the next booth both ghoulish and a violation of the health code. We called the manager over and asked him to enquire about it. He did, and they were very forthright and said exactly what we overheard that they were taking their cremated mother who recently died out to some of her favorite places. The manager told them that they could not bring cremated ashes into an eating establishment as it violates health code rules. The group left, with the urn. We met another couple for dinner and debated most the night about this issue. Does anyone else have an issue with eating next to a dead body in an urn or do people regularly take their cremated ashes with them to restaurants?

It's interment. ktnxbai.

 

[preslove]

It certainly makes me feel better that they argue against this. That confirms I was right.

You'd be better off letting this thread die. Everyone hates you because you're an asshole, not because everyone is self-loathing.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Human ashes aren't exactly rare. If they were a biohazard we'd be finding information saying so. Up to this point we've found plenty of places saying that they aren't dangerous and not a single place that says they are. I wonder why that is?

So far you've refused to give a single shred of proof, just your own opinion. Why should we believe you when your argument doesn't make sense and every single source we can locate says the exact opposite?

Don't know if you read it, but I posted a link to a crematory that was shut-down. It was spewing human ash but that was not why it was shut-down. No biohazard found.

Post - http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31747020&postcount=222

 

[MotionMan]

Even the EPA doesn't classifly remains as toxic, and the USPS doesn't classify remains as hazardous, either.

Onus is on SlickSnake to now back up his version of reality.

If cremains could ever be considered a biohazard (as opposed to something the health dept. merely does not want in restaurants, which may be true), wouldn't they would be more regulated? Also, if a possible biohazard, they could not possibly be released to a member of the general public (or thousands of them!), even if they are family.

MotionMan

 

[JulesMaximus]

We went last night to Applebee’s restaurant. In the booth next to us there was a group of 4 people. They were talking about the urn they brought into the restaurant with them sitting on the table, which was the remains of their mother. My wife and I got quiet and started listening carefully after we overheard that. Seems their mother just died and they were taking her, in the urn to some of her favorite places before the internment. My wife and I found the idea of a cremated body in the next booth both ghoulish and a violation of the health code. We called the manager over and asked him to enquire about it. He did, and they were very forthright and said exactly what we overheard that they were taking their cremated mother who recently died out to some of her favorite places. The manager told them that they could not bring cremated ashes into an eating establishment as it violates health code rules. The group left, with the urn. We met another couple for dinner and debated most the night about this issue. Does anyone else have an issue with eating next to a dead body in an urn or do people regularly take their cremated ashes with them to restaurants?

Applebees was one of her favorite places?

 

[Gibson486]

LOL....how did I miss this thread?


just clarification from someone who has a ServSafe cert...not that it means much, however. Also, in my former line of work, I dealt with hazardous material.

1. Ashes from remains are not Hazardous. Remains or articles with residue from remains that have not been cremated or treated are.

2. An OPEN urn IN THE KITCHEN is a health code violation. Any nonfood item cannot be be risked to exposure to food. In fact, even certain foods themselves must be enclosed when not in use to prevent cross contamination. An urn in the dining area is not a violation.

 

[mmntech]

Aside from how creepy it is, how sad was this woman if Applebees was one of her favorite places.

 

[Ryland]

What was the health risk? The body was burned at ~1500degrees F and the ashes were in a closed container. It sounds like you seriously overreacted and should have left them alone.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Aside from how creepy it is, how sad was this woman if Applebees was one of her favorite places.

Seriously. The first mistake the OP made was actually eating at Applebees.

 

[BTA]

You had a better chance of getting sick from the food at Applebees than some ashes.

 

[TheVrolok]

The point is that an urn containing a dead persons ashes whether biohazard or not is also at the discretion of the restaurant manager. Should a customer ‘enquire’ about a potential problem, it is the duty of the restaurant to check it out and decide if anything needs to be done. Applebee's looked into this and decided it was best to take action.

You are changing your argument. Is it Applebees allowed to turn customers with an urn away? Sure they are, I don't think anyone in this thread would disagree with that. However, that is not what you originally asked.. YOU asked if YOU AND YOUR WIFE were in the wrong eavesdropping and then contacting the manager. In that regard YOU were wrong, Applebees was not.

 

[zinfamous]

It certainly makes me feel better that they argue against this. That confirms I was right.

Yes, In the land of dicks, you are King.

 

[zinfamous]

Applebees was one of her favorite places?

Maybe she liked to hang out there with her friends?

One of my granddad's hangout spots was Biscuitville. He'd drive over there at about 5am and sit in the parking lot waiting for them to open (6:30, I think). He and his buddies would hang out at their regular booth the entire morning--escaping the wives, you know.

The employees of Biscuitville sent flowers to his funeral and wrote to my grandmother.

Different strokes for different folks.

Please: let's not disparage the ashes of the woman and what may have brought her pleasure in life, but the dickless OP and his wife for causing extra pain and frustration with an already grieving family.

 

[HumblePie]

So wait SlickSnake and OP....

If I'm sitting next to you eating I duno, a steak, a rack of ribs, or something else then you are going to complain to the management that I have BIO HAZARD on my table? I mean I have a dead cow or pig that has been put over a flame, albiet at a much lower temp and far shorter time frame, and it is sitting on the table!!!

Ohzzzz Noeezz!!! I have a dead carcass on the table and I'm eating it! It's a BIO HAZARD!

You are fucking retarded. Both of you.

 

[zinfamous]

So wait SlickSnake and OP....

If I'm sitting next to you eating I duno, a steak, a rack of ribs, or something else then you are going to complain to the management that I have BIO HAZARD on my table? I mean I have a dead cow or pig that has been put over a flame, albiet at a much lower temp and far shorter time frame, and it is sitting on the table!!!

Ohzzzz Noeezz!!! I have a dead carcass on the table and I'm eating it! It's a BIO HAZARD!

You are fucking retarded. Both of you.

lol.


why are you the first person to point this out?

:hmm:

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I don't think the OP was a dick. It is a little macabre to bring an urn into a restaurant.

Urine is sterile. Want me to bring a cup of my piss and set it on the table while I eat?

 

[TheVrolok]

I don't think the OP was a dick. It is a little macabre to bring an urn into a restaurant.

Urine is sterile. Want me to bring a cup of my piss and set it on the table while I eat?

Urine is not as sterile as ash. Also, brining the urn was part of a grieving process and something that needs to be taken into account; setting a cup of urine on the table would not be afforded the same consideration.