Cremation incident in restaurant – Over Reacted?

[SlickSnake]

If there are any federal guidelines for handling cremated remains that show they are a biohazard/harzardous waste, please give us the link. Or are you just making it up? Not sure how you can enforce something if it is not within the guidelines/if any such guideline even exist.

I read a whole lot of state and federal regulations before making that observation. Your powers of google are just as strong as mine, young Jedi. Your search terms may effect the outcome, obviously. I was specifically reading various pdf document files. Search your city or state and see what turns up, like I did.

 

[CZroe]

There don't necessarily have to be one. A health inspector, fire marshal, building inspector or even code enforcement are given some leeway when enforcing any government code. If they tell you to do something for a valid reason, and you don't, a citation is issued, and the courts will sort it out later. And a health inspector can deem many substances are a biohazard or hazardous waste without them being specifically listed on an ordinance, too.

However, there are different state and federal guidelines for handling cremated remains. If no local or state laws exist on handling or disbursing cremated remains, then the federal law or EPA guidelines or whatever is then enforceable by any government official.

And in looking at federal guidelines for disposal by a family, for different national and state parks and waterways, the laws would take some research. In some cases they may even require a permit or be prohibited completely.

You are so full of it. Laws aren't secret. It's the whole point. How can people follow it if they don't know it? It's not the norm. Every time some agency tries to enforce a law someone couldn't have known about, it becomes news because of how outrageous it is. Like the "sold over $500 worth of rabbits" story that's been floating around.

Also, to be a health code violation, it must violate a health code. Durr. You're the only would talking about "biohazard" and such being subject to interpretation.

 

[Ichinisan]

Slicksnake dug his/her heels in and there's no going back now.

So what if some people might be bothered? Only complete idiots would be bothered by it.

It's unusual, yes. If you allow it to influence your behavior, you're an impulsive fool.

 

[Miramonti]

Slicksnake dug his/her heels in and there's no going back now.

So what if some people might be bothered? Only complete idiots would be bothered by it.

It's unusual, yes. If you allow it to influence your behavior, you're an impulsive fool.

I'm just wondering if his coma was inadvertent, upon doctor's recommendation, or self-induced because I hear a lot of babble without anything measurable being said.

 

[CZroe]

I would be honored. Just have your estate contact me, and we can make arrangements. And I can sneeze real hard at the end and blow it all over the room for the climax, it would be epic indeed. I get the all royalties for all the million plus web hits, since you're dead, you won't be needing it.

So you honestly think if I run into burning buildings and breath smoke and ash your sweet, sweet, ashes would bug me at all? Hardly. But I'm also not doing that while eating or drinking, well, at least most of the time. It depends on how big the fire is.

And I assure you the shit I do breath accidentally is WAY more toxic than simple cremated ash is. But I just don't like eating with dead things nearby, especially if the food is bad enough in the first place.

Yeah, because health departments just LOVE making laws related to what you like to eat nearby vs. what may affect your health.

Your food is dead. The wood in your chair is dead. Your top layer of skin is dead. Understandably upsetting, the roaches in the roach trap in the corner are dead. Or would you rather they let them continue living?

 

[airdata]

 

[CZroe]

I read a whole lot of state and federal regulations before making that observation. Your powers of google are just as strong as mine, young Jedi. Your search terms may effect the outcome, obviously. I was specifically reading various pdf document files. Search your city or state and see what turns up, like I did.

So if we search and tell you that it's not there, you're just going to keep saying that it is and we didn't search hard enough. Clearly, you don't know how this works. The onus is on you.

 

[SlickSnake]

You are so full of it. Laws aren't secret. Also, to be a health code violation, it must violate a health code. Durr. You're the only would talking about "biohazard" and such being subject to interpretation.

Where did I say secret laws? Oh wait, I didn't. And I'm full of it?

To give another example, we get calls because those tankers with drilling waste in them leak on the roads sometimes. They deem it a hazardous waste spill and we are called in to clean it off the roads. We can't just spray it off the roads here, we have to first spread out an powdered absorbent, and scoop it to the side of the road, then pick the crap up, then we can hose off the road and it's deemed "safe' again. Meanwhile, the guy driving the truck that leaked is covered in the stuff, just from being splashed and trying to fill the tanker up all day long, and making trips back and forth to dispose of it. And he don't seem that worried about it.

Anyone who works for the city, state or feds and has the power of environmental enforcement under them can deem anything they want a biohazard or hazardous waste. You do not have a set list of ALL the hazards to go by, either. Where not listed, it's up to the inspector to make the call. That's not some secret law, dunno where you got that idea from, but it's wrong.

 

[Bignate603]

A bar frequently has completely different rules for a health department inspection to go by, at least in a large city.

So while it don't suddenly become safe in a bar, things like bathroom and sanitation issues are frequently over looked with a warning, where as the same situation in a restaurant might get it shut down until its fixed, like a leaky toilet or no hot water in a bathroom for instance.

You've claimed that it's a biohazard and hazardous waste, requiring a hazmat suit. If ashes were as nasty as you claim there's no way they'd allow it in any public building, or allow the scattering of the stuff anywhere.

You're committed to your delusion though. I guess if you don't know what you're talking about just pick a random idea and stick with it.

 

[CZroe]

Where did I say secret laws? Oh wait, I didn't. And I'm full of it?

"And in looking at federal guidelines for disposal by a family, for different national and state parks and waterways, the laws would take some research. In some cases they may even require a permit or be prohibited completely."

I guess you didn't mean that the research would require permits, but even you could've gone back to see where you gave that impression.

 

[SlickSnake]

So if we search and tell you that it's not there, you're just going to keep saying that it is and we didn't search hard enough. Clearly, you don't know how this works. The onus is on you.

No it's not. If someone asks the question and is too lazy to search, and then expects me to hold their precious little hand to help them find it, that's their problem, not mine. They are arguing the points made, so prove me wrong, homies?

Frankly, I don't care if you are all ignoramuses sniffing out each others troll posts. That don't mean I have to join the brown noser party, and agree with you, too.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I have worked in the food industry as Chef and manager for more than 30 years. In at least a dozen States, I can categorically deny that cremated remains are considered a health hazard in a restaurant or any public place. SlickSnake is a troll and the OP definitely over reacted. I think the OP should worry more about the hundreds of people who ate off the silverware and plates they were served on before he starts worrying about completely sterilized remains.

 

[manlymatt83]

Kind of weird but you over-reacted

 

[SlickSnake]

You've claimed that it's a biohazard and hazardous waste, requiring a hazmat suit. If ashes were as nasty as you claim there's no way they'd allow it in any public building, or allow the scattering of the stuff anywhere.

You're committed to your delusion though. I guess if you don't know what you're talking about just pick a random idea and stick with it.

Actually, you are once again proving you don't know what you are talking about. It's hardly a delusion to admit cremations are state regulated in most cases due to it being considered a biohazard or at least, a hazardous waste.

Those state codes regulating cremations are pretty strict, and specify nearly every single aspect of handling the remains, including disposal if not turned over to a family. If the states thought it was as harmless as rock salt, they wouldn't have such specific handling laws to mostly to protect workers from it. Since that's the major reason these laws seem to be in place.

And probably the only reason these ashes are not more regulated once you take your loved one home, is because they figure they can't easily track it once it's out of the funeral homes hands, not because it becomes less dangerous to inhale or eat.

 

[SlickSnake]

I have worked in the food industry as Chef and manager for more than 30 years. In at least a dozen States, I can categorically deny that cremated remains are considered a health hazard in a restaurant or any public place. SlickSnake is a troll and the OP definitely over reacted. I think the OP should worry more about the hundreds of people who ate off the silverware and plates they were served on before he starts worrying about completely sterilized remains.

I'm not a troll, dear sir, but you certainly are if you think simple restaurant management somehow takes the place of working for the health or fire departments.

I don't recall taking a course in handing cremated remains for restaurant management or food handler certification, OH SNAP, that's because it WAS NOT OFFERED. They also did not teach me to fly the space shuttle or pilot a hang glider. But that would be cool, though, if they did, wouldn't it?

And your right about the silverware, UGH, I may start taking my own plastic ware with me next time. I get tired of asking for 2 or 3 sets just to get one fork without someone elses gunk stuck all over it.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Hey Slick, did 4chan get tired of your ass and give you the boot?

You are misinformed. You are certainly welcome to have your own hang ups about death and human remains, most people do.

You have claimed federal and state agencies consider cremated remains to be hazardous but, you have provided no proof. I have taken courses in hospitality law and I can tell you you're full of it.

Perhaps a little common sense can assuage your hysteria regarding cremated remains. What exactly is contained in the human body in sufficient quantities that after being cremated would cause health concerns?
OH SNAP, that's because there aren't any. Breathing people dust might cause you to cough but would be less harmful than smoking a cigarette. Go do us all a favor and troll elsewhere.

 

[Locut0s]

Actually, you are once again proving you don't know what you are talking about. It's hardly a delusion to admit cremations are state regulated in most cases due to it being considered a biohazard or at least, a hazardous waste.

Those state codes regulating cremations are pretty strict, and specify nearly every single aspect of handling the remains, including disposal if not turned over to a family. If the states thought it was as harmless as rock salt, they wouldn't have such specific handling laws to mostly to protect workers from it. Since that's the major reason these laws seem to be in place.

And probably the only reason these ashes are not more regulated once you take your loved one home, is because they figure they can't easily track it once it's out of the funeral homes hands, not because it becomes less dangerous to inhale or eat.

I said this earlier farther up but seems you missed it. Cremating a human down to dust takes temperatures of over a thousand degrees for a long period. When they sterilize medical equipment in an autoclave they are only using temperatures of 120deg C or so. And once they have sterilized this equipment it's good enough TO BE USED IN SURGERY. So basically what comes out of a cremation oven is FAR more sterile than even clean surgical tools. Cremated remains are cleaner than any of the food you eat in restaurants like the one in the OPs post.

 

[Aikouka]

It was rude not to give your condolences. Their mother passed, damnit!

 

[CZroe]

Actually, you are once again proving you don't know what you are talking about. It's hardly a delusion to admit cremations are state regulated in most cases due to it being considered a biohazard or at least, a hazardous waste.

Those state codes regulating cremations are pretty strict, and specify nearly every single aspect of handling the remains, including disposal if not turned over to a family. If the states thought it was as harmless as rock salt, they wouldn't have such specific handling laws to mostly to protect workers from it. Since that's the major reason these laws seem to be in place.

And probably the only reason these ashes are not more regulated once you take your loved one home, is because they figure they can't easily track it once it's out of the funeral homes hands, not because it becomes less dangerous to inhale or eat.

Cremated remains are safe BECAUSE the process is regulated. And do you honestly think that it they are regulated because of what is coming OUT and not what is going in?

 

[zinfamous]

SlickSnake:

Your fucking HANDS are more of a biohazard than are cremains.

for fucks sake, I don't even this place...anymore.

 

[DrPizza]

You think? Maybe you can contact your local health department tomorrow if you don't live in a small town without one, and get back with us on that observation, before you shoot yourself in the foot first next time. And it would certainly be up to the health inspector to make that call, and not a bunch of drooling forum trolls sniffing out a fight, in any event.

It's by county in NY. And, they use the exact same forms for both restaurants and for bars. I wondered, "is it the same way in other states?" And, I spent about 20 seconds googling it. Yep. It's the same, at least in Georgia.
http://whatnowatlanta.com/2011/02/10/the-porter-beer-bar-flunks-health-inspection/

Weird, how come the people in this thread are backing up their claims with evidence, and you're not? (Oh, and yes, in the link above, they did serve food. But, you'll notice on the form, there's a box for Not Applicable for several of the food related categories - for if they don't serve food.


edit: oh, here you go, NYC:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/inspect/inspect-guide-part3.pdf
I think those are just some excerpts. You'll note as you read through it that a bar falls under "food establishment."

A “tavern” means an establishment where alcoholic beverages are sold and served for on-site consumption and in which the service of food, if served at all, is incidental to the sale of such beverages. Service of food shall be considered incidental if the food service generates less than 40% of the total annual gross sales.

- note, even if they don't serve any food at all, they still fall under the guidelines for food service establishment.


You're a sad little troll.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Can SlickSnake explain why this crematorium wasn't shut-down b/c of the human ashes falling on people's cars and on a Jack in the Box? No mention of ashes being a Biohazard or even a health code violation.

SMOKED OUT: COUNTY SHUTS DOWN CREMATORIUM OVER "HORRIFIC" VIOLATIONS

APCD staff and inspectors provided evidence of numerous violations including “sulfurous odor, smoke and sparks from the stack,” that posed both a hazard to human health and a fire danger.

Mike Zauri said he lives in Lake Jennings Park directly across from the crematorium and has seen black smoke pouring over the Jack and the Box Restaurant next door. “Raw or cooked, there are human particulates going into that Jack in the Box and into the food,” said Zauri, who added that he has worked in the food industry. “It’s beyond me to believe you can have a crematory not required to have sensors all over it and all over the neighborhood to monitor emissions, which should be zero.”

 

[Locut0s]

SlickSnake:

Your fucking HANDS are more of a biohazard than are cremains.

for fucks sake, I don't even this place...anymore.

Careful zin. Don't try to this place. It's not possible. I've tried to this place in the past. It will only brain your damage!

 

[DrPizza]

Incidentally, I'm not sure this was brought up yet:

My wife and I got quiet and started listening carefully

OP - what you were doing is eavesdropping. You had no business listening in on their conversation like that. You also said that after 2 other people joined you, you debated the situation for a while. So, I strongly suspect that the two people who joined you agree with 99% of the people replying in this thread.

 

[pray4mojo]

These things are prone to tipping over, and the lids frequently do not screw on, too. If this thing fell over, it would be considered a BIOHAZARD and HAZARDOUS WASTE. The dust would then drift all over the restaurant, and it would have to be evacuated and closed down. The manager was 100% right in asking them to leave, and the grieving morons should have never brought it in without permission in the first place. None of you post tards has ever run a restaurant, OBVIOUSLY.

I literally LOL'd reading this. If they are so hazardous, why would cremation homes allow families to leave with the ashes?

Logic fail.