crappy gpu in next xbox?

[Vesku]

Hope the 6670 isn't true, really should be a 7750 or 7770 equivalent gpu. In Xbox volumes that would still be pretty cheap.

 

[RussianSensation]

I didn't mean to suggest that people bought a wii specifically because it had lower specs than the competition, that would make no sense at all. But to say that by tossing in a gimmick they can "get away" with lower specs. That is more or less what is happening with the Xbox this generation. Microsoft is offsetting the low specs by shipping a Kinect 2.0 in every box. The exact same strategy that Nintendo used. The goal being to maximize profit.

I tend to agree with this. MS is going to have a budget allocation problem no matter what because they decided to integrate Kinect 2 into every Xbox720 based on rumors. If they try to keep the console prices at $400 or so, Kinect 2 will eat into a lot of their budget.

This is why I think Sony has a real shot here to upstage Xbox 720's graphical performance. Instead of going with PowerPC, Sony can just use the A8-3850/3870 from AMD and pair the same HD6670 GPU to get Dual- Graphics and move up to HD6770 performance level.

And if Sony is really gutsy, they could use use Kaveri with Steamroller CPU cores which is rumoured to have an APU ~ HD7750. Then just add a dedicated HD7750 for HD7750 Cross-fire and Xbox720 with HD6670 will look like the Wii in comparison.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

I tend to agree with this. MS is going to have a budget allocation problem no matter what because they decided to integrate Kinect 2 into every Xbox720 based on rumors. If they try to keep the console prices at $400 or so, Kinect 2 will eat into a lot of their budget

If you think additional gameplay mechanics are a gimmick than Graphical enhancements could also be considered a sales gimmick as well marketed toward people like yourself who place value on the best graphics AKA graphics Whoring.

Any time someone starts a conversation with words like "Believe me" sorry but I tend to also require some facts to back up your opinion of why I should believe you at that point unless you're name is say Bill Gates and you are talking about Microsoft Windows at which point I would start taking some notes without further ado.

 

[Grooveriding]

I just don't understand how better graphics are written off as just 'whoring'. Of course a game needs decent gameplay to be worth a damn, but graphics can add to gameplay in that they define the game environment. The environment sets the tone, the mood and gives the game its life.

You can compensate for less than stellar graphics technology with a good art team, but there is still something to be said for amazing graphics. Some genres benefit more than others. I'd bet console gamers would be pretty happy to fire up their new Xbox 720 and have a jaw drop experience like PC gamers did over Crysis when it came out.

Poor buggers will be lucky to even get close to get Crysis visuals on the new Xbox. :thumbsdown:

 

[Gordon Freemen]

I just don't understand how better graphics are written off as just 'whoring'. Of course a game needs decent gameplay to be worth a damn, but graphics can add to gameplay in that they define the game environment. The environment sets the tone, the mood and gives the game its life.

You can compensate for less than stellar graphics technology with a good art team, but there is still something to be said for amazing graphics. Some genres benefit more than others. I'd bet console gamers would be pretty happy to fire up their new Xbox 720 and have a jaw drop experience like PC gamers did over Crysis when it came out.

Poor buggers will be lucky to even get close to get Crysis visuals on the new Xbox. :thumbsdown:

I have so so so many more hrs of fun and enjoyment in Fallout NV than I do in Crysis. Take that for what it is. Would Fallout be more fun as a game if it had great graphics well IMHO I don't think it would have made me play it longer or have more enjoyment out of it but the DLC with new story's and weapons etc to enjoy added to the game by leaps and bounds.

 

[Grooveriding]

I have so so so many more hrs of fun and enjoyment in Fallout NV than I do in Crysis. Take that for what it is. Would Fallout be more fun as a game if it had great graphics well IMHO I don't think it would have made me play it longer or have more enjoyment out of it but the DLC with new story's and weapons etc to enjoy added to the game by leaps and bounds.

I think it is a different strokes thing. I enjoyed Fallout: NV, but it was a finish and shelve game for me. All Bethesda's stuff is, I just don't get the urge to go back through again, no replay value for my tastes but the first play through I always really enjoy.

Whereas Battlefield 3 I have played loads of and still play regularly. I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do if didn't look so awesome. Sure I still like good game play, I still play Diablo 2 to this day and it looks like crap, but graphics are always nice as well

Everyone has different tastes and this will be true for consolers as well. You can have a great game with amazing game play and average graphics on a machine with good GPU horsepower as well as one with amazing game play and amazing graphics, but you can only have the former on a machine with mediocre GPU power. It leaves the option on the table. I'm sure with devs like Crytek and CryEnginge3 now on console and the significantly more powerful Unreal Engine 4 from Epic coming, they'd both like to see some more beef under the hood of the PS4/Xbox720.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

I think it is a different strokes thing. I enjoyed Fallout: NV, but it was a finish and shelve game for me. All Bethesda's stuff is, I just don't get the urge to go back through again, no replay value for my tastes but the first play through I always really enjoy.

Whereas Battlefield 3 I have played loads of and still play regularly. I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do if didn't look so awesome. Sure I still like good game play, I still play Diablo 2 to this day and it looks like crap, but graphics are always nice as well

Everyone has different tastes and this will be true for consolers as well. You can have a great game with amazing game play and average graphics on a machine with good GPU horsepower as well as one with amazing game play and amazing graphics, but you can only have the former on a machine with mediocre GPU power. It leaves the option on the table. I'm sure with devs like Crytek and CryEnginge3 now on console and the significantly more powerful Unreal Engine 4 from Epic coming, they'd both like to see some more beef under the hood of the PS4/Xbox720.

I played BF3 for many hrs and I was not impressed in fact I am one of those that went back to BFBC2 . BF3 was a small side attraction for a limited time when it really did not improve on the old BF formula at all in fact it went backward IMHO unless you are a graphics whore then it's the cock & dolly. Better graphics is just not enough to entice me into playing a game when IMO BFBC2 has plenty great enough graphical effects for me plus is well well optimized. Consoles are always powerhouses when the first come out but they are soon overtaken and are now obsolete in some hard core PC gamers minds. I think Consoles should just be banished all together really because eventually all the games come onto the KING PC and there's nothing a console can do or do better as compared to a half decent PC. Also most people talk about how great the graphics in a game like BF3 is on there PC but they fail to admit that they needed to spend stupid amounts of cash on hardware or don't even have the hardware to get better or even the same performance as on the console version so in this respect consoles represent a great value low cost entry into gaming. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

 

[RussianSensation]

If you think additional gameplay mechanics are a gimmick than Graphical enhancements could also be considered a sales gimmick as well marketed toward people like yourself who place value on the best graphics AKA graphics Whoring.

Look at Dishonored. Would a game with such gameplay be possible on PS2? What about unique use of first person and plasmids of Bioshock? What about creating a realistic physics/destruction environment that can alter how we play games?

A lot of these things are tied to graphics and processing power, which in turn affect immersion. Trust me I think Super Mario Bros. is extremely fun and despite its dated graphics, I like Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time over Dragon Age Origins 2. It's not about graphics over gameplay. But without advancements in graphics, we wouldn't even be here today or have games such as Killzone 2, Uncharted, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo 5, Forza Motorsports, SKYRIM, etc.

Tetris and Starcraft 1 can be amazing fun and from what I heard Diablo 2 was amazing (though never played it). At the same time would BF3 be possible on PS1? Unless you think games won't improve at all, you'll be glad later that artists have even more freedom to populate the game worlds. If not, we'd all still be playing Pac-Man and Pong.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

Look at Dishonored. Would a game with such gameplay be possible on PS2? What about unique use of first person and plasmids of Bioshock? What about creating a realistic physics/destruction environment that can alter how we play games?

A lot of these things are tied to graphics and processing power, which in turn affect immersion. Trust me I think Super Mario Bros. is extremely fun and despite its dated graphics, I like Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time over Dragon Age Origins 2. It's not about graphics over gameplay. But without advancements in graphics, we wouldn't even be here today or have games such as Killzone 2, Uncharted, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo 5, Forza Motorsports, SKYRIM, etc.

Tetris and Starcraft 1 can be amazing fun and from what I heard Diablo 2 was amazing (though never played it). At the same time would BF3 be possible on PS1? Unless you think games won't improve at all, you'll be glad later that artists have even more freedom to populate the game worlds. If not, we'd all still be playing Pac-Man and Pong.

I am currently playing through Metal gear Soild 1 for (PC) and the slighlty upgraded graphics are a nice toch but it still dose not bring back the great feeling that I got when playing it for the first time on PSX1 console back in Christmas 1998 with the revolutionary at the time Dual Shock Analog controller. It was the controls and sounds that appeald to me the most the look was great at the time but not as good as the gameplay which is world class.

 

[showb1z]

I am currently playing through Metal gear Soild 1 for (PC) and the slighlty upgraded graphics are a nice toch but it still dose not bring back the great feeling that I got when playing it for the first time on PSX1 console back in Christmas 1998 with the revolutionary at the time Dual Shock Analog controller. It was the controls and sounds that appeald to me the most the look was great at the time but not as good as the gameplay which is world class.

What people have been saying to you for the last 2 pages is this:
Advancements in hardware lead to advancements in all aspects of gaming, not just graphics...
The fact that we've had great games in the past, without advanced hardware doesn't change this.

Who knows what kind of brilliant ideas Kojima or Miayomoto haven't been able to realise because it's just technically impossible. Look at Molyneux (not that I like his games), always promising big things, but in the end he can't realise half of it, because the hardware just isn't there.
More horsepower is NEVER a bad thing.

If the 'new' console hardware didn't have serious implications for PC gaming in the next decade I couldn't care less. But unless a big shift happens, it does, so I don't like these rumours at all.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

What people have been saying to you for the last 2 pages is this:
Advancements in hardware lead to advancements in all aspects of gaming, not just graphics...
Who knows what kind of brilliant ideas Kojima or Miayomoto haven't been able to realise because it's just technically impossible. Look at Molyneux (not that I like his games), always promising big things, but in the end he can't realise half of it, because the hardware just isn't there.
More horsepower is NEVER a bad thing.

If the 'new' console hardware didn't have serious implications for PC gaming in the next decade I couldn't care less. But unless a big shift happens, it does, so I don't like these rumours at all.

No some people are being graphics Whores and they have lost sight of what gaming is really about which is having fun not looking at graphics LOL. I don't care if the next Xbox has a roasting turd for a GPU so long as the games are fun and they don't hold back the PC to much.

 

[MisterMac]

Could we just stop responding to freeman?

He's either a very clever troll and we're all feeding him or.... incredibly beepity beep

He does the same open-ended twist on every question, eluding any variable\fact.


Personally, i think the rumours are right, however this is not a 8 year box, this is a 3 year box AT MOST.

You forget chipzilla most likely will be able to deliver SOCs with both more gpu and cpu power in 2013++ within TDP spec.

I don't see why this isn't the real chipzilla goal for "APU's".
We gaming folk will have our big monster 150w tdp SKU's with our 300w GPU sku's for the ultimate in everything.

Rest will use the same ISA\Chip in different configs - developers most likely get it easier with optimization.

 

[Aristotelian]

No some people are being graphics Whores and they have lost sight of what gaming is really about which is having fun not looking at graphics LOL. I don't care if the next Xbox has a roasting turd for a GPU so long as the games are fun and they don't hold back the PC to much.

Why do you make gaming about one and not the other? Gamers such as myself want both. I want great image quality and great gameplay, and as others have helpfully pointed out - both are possible in a game. They aren't saying 'every game has to have amazing visuals for it to be a good game' (which is the argument you are trying to defeat). They are simply saying "It would be great if the console was capable of great graphics so that, when games can take advantage of amazing visuals to add to our immersion, the console is capable of supporting that".

Really, I think there is no disagreement here that a game ought to be fun. Why should it be a problem for people to want the game to look good, in addition to being fun, when looking good adds to the atmosphere of the game?

 

[Gordon Freemen]

Why do you make gaming about one and not the other? Gamers such as myself want both. I want great image quality and great gameplay, and as others have helpfully pointed out - both are possible in a game. They aren't saying 'every game has to have amazing visuals for it to be a good game' (which is the argument you are trying to defeat). They are simply saying "It would be great if the console was capable of great graphics so that, when games can take advantage of amazing visuals to add to our immersion, the console is capable of supporting that".

Really, I think there is no disagreement here that a game ought to be fun. Why should it be a problem for people to want the game to look good, in addition to being fun, when looking good adds to the atmosphere of the game?

I have a fetish for high resolution and sharp edges which is why I prefer the PC well that and Keyboard and mouse among many other things. That being said I really don't care if the game has nintendo game cube graphics so long as the edges are not all full of jaggies and the resolution is higher than 720p and the frame rates are fast and smooth as silk. In fact I am plying Zelda: Twilight Princess on (PC) emulated of course and with all the enhancements to the graphics and the higher 1050P resolution and "high end" AA the game look amazingly good considering it's age and that it is a Nintendo GC game.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

Then how was RAGE successfully ported to the ipod LOL ????? You say quote "changing them at a fundamental level" AKA porting.

The iPad version of RAGE is a rail-shooter, not a free movement based fps like it is on consoles and PC. There goes any credibility you have because you can't be bothered to check basic facts, making you incapable of informed debate. I'll be ignoring you from now on as should everyone else on this thread.

Back on topic: I hope Microsoft surprises us with the final hardware using a faster chip. I don't know if anyone remembers but this happened with the 360, the dev boxes were using X800 XTs not the modified X1900 core.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

The iPad version of RAGE is a rail-shooter, not a free movement based fps like it is on consoles and PC. There goes any credibility you have because you can't be bothered to check basic facts, making you incapable of informed debate. I'll be ignoring you from now on as should everyone else on this thread.

Back on topic: I hope Microsoft surprises us with the final hardware using a faster chip. I don't know if anyone remembers but this happened with the 360, the dev boxes were using X800 XTs not the modified X1900 core.

Yup RAGE is a rail shooter don't let them seemingly open areas in between corridors fool you.

 

[Slimline]

RedHawk, I just want to say kudos to your patience. Reading this thread almost made me boil over at Gordon Freemen's lost grasp on the subject. On topic of this thread, I am sad to hear that the next xbox could be crippled from the get go, however I do miss oldschool pc gaming and the development it used to receive. I cant see how Microsoft thinks it would be a good idea to ship the console with far outdated hardware for a moderate jump compared to 360 standards. The future proof idea, being they forcast a what, 7-10 year shelf life? That is a LONNNNNNG time to try and bandaid new age tech to old age hardware.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

RedHawk, I just want to say kudos to your patience. Reading this thread almost made me boil over at Gordon Freemen's lost grasp on the subject. On topic of this thread, I am sad to hear that the next xbox could be crippled from the get go, however I do miss oldschool pc gaming and the development it used to receive. I cant see how Microsoft thinks it would be a good idea to ship the console with far outdated hardware for a moderate jump compared to 360 standards. The future proof idea, being they forcast a what, 7-10 year shelf life? That is a LONNNNNNG time to try and bandaid new age tech to old age hardware.

Thing is people are forgetting about consoles is that the developers actually support coding for consoles therfore they can talor make the game code to work effciently on lesser hardware plus on consoles there is a lack of bulky windows OS overhead to deal with at the same time which helps out a whole ton. In short developers can do a whole lot more on a 6670 in a console than they could do with the same hardware specs on a PC so it's not a bad thing that the next xbox might have a 6670.

A GPU is not about conserving electricity it is about playing games LOL.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

The least they could do is put in cutting edge tech if they expect that damned thing to last the next 7-10 years!

Can you imagine gaming on a X1900XT until now?!

 

[Gordon Freemen]

The least they could do is put in cutting edge tech if they expect that damned thing to last the next 7-10 years!

Can you imagine gaming on a X1900XT until now?!

Doesn't matter look at the piss poor hardware in todays terms that is still in the Xbox360 imagine if that same GPU and CPU were in a PC running windows LOL it would not play any games with even half decent IQ at even 30fps min 720P

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I bought a PS3 once from Best Buy.

I returned it 5 hours later.

If this is all they have to offer, I can skip it and use an emulator on a PC down the road.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

I bought a PS3 once from Best Buy.

I returned it 5 hours later.

If this is all they have to offer, I can skip it and use an emulator on a PC down the road.

I recommend "Emulation" as well because eventually they all come to (PC)

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I bought a PS3 once from Best Buy.

I returned it 5 hours later.

If this is all they have to offer, I can skip it and use an emulator on a PC down the road.

I remember when I hooked my PS3 up to a 1080p monitor and crapped bricks when I figured out that all the games are running at 640p.

 

[Grooveriding]

I buy the consoles just because I am a gamer, but hardly use them. For actual gaming the Wii has seen the most use in my house. Overall it would be the PS3 because I use it as a BR player in the basement. The last time the 360 got turned on was when we were sitting my wife's niece. Launch day 360 still hasn't RROD, probably because it never gets used.

 

[Blitzvogel]

Can you imagine gaming on a X1900XT until now?!

Well considering an X1900XT would run many of the old games I still play flat out at 1080p, yes I can imagine it

Even a "modest" GPU like a GTS 450 or Radeon 7770 would still be quite a godsend and great upgrade to Xenos. Those two GPUs are quite capable, even for today's games at something like 720p, and for many games 1080p is still completely viable for max or close to max settings.