Court rules highway cross unconstitutional

[HumblePie]

So is Arlington Cemetery the next target? That place is COVERED in crosses.

Private land. Nice try at trolling though. While parts of the cemetery are public, the plots are definitely private. As such, on a plot of private land, the owners of that plot can put whatever the hell they want there.

Edit, the owners of the plot can do what they want under stipulations of the contract of ownership of the plot. I have lots of family buried there

 

[Throckmorton]

So is Arlington Cemetery the next target? That place is COVERED in crosses.

Arlingon National Cemetery has the religious symbols of the servicemen buried in each plot, including crosses, stars of David, crescent moons, atheist atoms, and pentacles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ns_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers

 

[Red Dawn]

Dude, that was a dumb post. Mormons are Christians. They just have more books besides the new testament. Go look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon

They are called the Later Day Saints of Jesus Christ. They use the Cross along with other symbols that other Christians do not use.

Hmmm, don't most Christian Denominations consider them something other than Christian, like some kind of weird Cult? And the Article stated that they didn't use a Cross as a Religious symbol so I was basing my post on that.

Regarding Billboards, others have posted that they are on Private Property, is that the case, no Billboards are on Public Property?

 

[sandorski]

What if private groups paid to turn the White House into a Mosque where B-Rock The Islamic Shock Hussein Superallah Obama could be the Imam-in-Chief?

That'd be awesome just for the name alone!

 

[HumblePie]

Hmmm, don't most Christian Denominations consider them something other than Christian, like some kind of weird Cult? And the Article stated that they didn't use a Cross as a Religious symbol so I was basing my post on that.

Regarding Billboards, others have posted that they are on Private Property, is that the case, no Billboards are on Public Property?

Just like every Christian Denomination considers itself to be the one true Christian sect? Wasn't there a war recently fought in Ireland over that? Hrmm...

Yes, every other Christian religion thinks the Mormons are loony. That doesn't make them any less than a different Christian sect.

Also, when I read that section of the article I was like WTF??? I used to live next door to a bunch of Mormons and they had crosses in their house I can tell you that.

 

[herkulease]

Here's the Utah Highway Patrol Association website.
http://www.utahtrooper.com/

WTF?


No shit!

Gotta be safe. We have plenty of idiots in the US. If they didn't have that. someone will email them, no response then try to sue.

 

[BoberFett]

Private land. Nice try at trolling though. While parts of the cemetery are public, the plots are definitely private. As such, on a plot of private land, the owners of that plot can put whatever the hell they want there.

Edit, the owners of the plot can do what they want under stipulations of the contract of ownership of the plot. I have lots of family buried there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_National_Cemetery#Grave_markers.2C_niches_and_headstones

Grave markers, niches and headstones

The United States Department of Veterans Affairs oversees the National Cemetery Administration's orders[13] for placement of inscriptions and faith emblems at no charge to the estate of the deceased, submitted with information provided by the next of kin[14] that is placed on upright marble headstones or niche covers. There are 39 authorized faith emblems available for placement[15] to represent the deceased's faith. See also, the United States Department of Veterans Affairs webpage[16] "Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones" and "Markers" Markers[17]

Prior to 2007, the United States Department of Veterans Affairs did not allow the use of the pentacle as an "emblem of belief" on tombstones in military cemeteries. This policy was changed following an out-of-court settlement on 23 April following a series of lawsuits against the VA.[18][19][20] See Patrick Stewart (soldier).

The United States Department of Veterans Affairs does not list any Ásatrú symbols as available emblems of belief for placement on government headstones and markers.[21] According to federal guidelines, only approved religious symbols — of which there are 39 — can be placed on government headstones or memorial plaques. Ásatrú Folk Assembly have demanded such a symbol. However, per the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 38.632 “Headstone and Marker Application Process” which went into effect on July 1, 2009, a decedent’s next-of-kin can request that a new emblem of belief be added to the list.[22]

Sounds to me like the government allows only certain APPROVED RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS to appear on markers. Government is most definitely defining what is and is not an acceptable religions in Arlington.

 

[HumblePie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_National_Cemetery#Grave_markers.2C_niches_and_headstones



Sounds to me like the government allows only certain APPROVED RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS to appear on markers.

Part of the contract. If you want to be buried there, you are given a plot of land, that land is now private, but only as part of a contract. Think of it like a lease. Instead of the tenant having to clean out the rain gutters and mow the lawn every so often, they have different rules to follow. One is that they use certain headstones and have those headstones created in a certain way as to create a uniform cemetery. That's just the way it is. Strings are attached.

EDIT but I do agree that the limits imposed are sometimes a bit harsh as with the case of Patrick Stewart.

 

[xj0hnx]

How so? You brought up the freedom of religion. Putting up a cross is a practice of a religion. Since you are the one that mention the association between these roadside crosses and religion, then I brought out the fact that freedom of religion does not grant the right to freedom of practice.

Because placing a memorial, whether it a cross, a Star of David, or a Crescent isn't practicing religion, it's merely a symbol of the person's faith.

 

[HumblePie]

Because placing a memorial, whether it a cross, a Star of David, or a Crescent isn't practicing religion, it's merely a symbol of the person's faith.

Incorrect. The act of placement of a religious icon is an act of practice. Placing a non religious icon as a memorial is not considered a religious practice.

 

[xj0hnx]

Incorrect. The act of placement of a religious icon is an act of practice. Placing a non religious icon as a memorial is not considered a religious practice.

Whatever dude, that's just being stupid.

religious practice =/= practicing religion

 

[HumblePie]

Uhh yes. Expressing your symbol of faith in your religion is a religious practice. All religions do this. It's advertisement. The fact you fail to correlate this in your brain points to something defunct there.

 

[xj0hnx]

Uhh yes. Expressing your symbol of faith in your religion is a religious practice. All religions do this. It's advertisement. The fact you fail to correlate this in your brain points to something defunct there.

The only thing "defunct" is claiming that a religious symbol on a memorial is practicing religion. So I guess the memorial is practicing Christianity, wait some of those crazy memorials are practicing Islam, and yet others are practicing Buddhism. Someone needs to tell all those inanimate objects to stop practicing their religion, they are going to offend somebody.

 

[HumblePie]

The only thing "defunct" is claiming that a religious symbol on a memorial is practicing religion. So I guess the memorial is practicing Christianity, wait some of those crazy memorials are practicing Islam, and yet others are practicing Buddhism. Someone needs to tell all those inanimate objects to stop practicing their religion, they are going to offend somebody.

No, the person placing the symbol is doing so. Yeesh. Yep, defunct is the word to use there. Nice strawman attempt though at trying to move the focus to the inanimate objects.

 

[BoomerD]

Just like every Christian Denomination considers itself to be the one true Christian sect? Wasn't there a war recently fought in Ireland over that? Hrmm...

Yes, every other Christian religion thinks the Mormons are loony. That doesn't make them any less than a different Christian sect.

Also, when I read that section of the article I was like WTF??? I used to live next door to a bunch of Mormons and they had crosses in their house I can tell you that.

AFAIK, the only ones who consider Mormons to be Christian are the Mormons themselves...and even that's a fairly recent concept.

http://www.carm.org/is-mormonism-christian

http://www.carm.org/brigham-young-quotes

 

[BoberFett]

Part of the contract. If you want to be buried there, you are given a plot of land, that land is now private, but only as part of a contract. Think of it like a lease. Instead of the tenant having to clean out the rain gutters and mow the lawn every so often, they have different rules to follow. One is that they use certain headstones and have those headstones created in a certain way as to create a uniform cemetery. That's just the way it is. Strings are attached.

EDIT but I do agree that the limits imposed are sometimes a bit harsh as with the case of Patrick Stewart.

So in order to be buried there, you have to sign a contract with the government saying that you agree to use only one of their approved religious symbols.

Again, how is that any different than the issue in the OP?

 

[HumblePie]

AFAIK, the only ones who consider Mormons to be Christian are the Mormons themselves...and even that's a fairly recent concept.

http://www.carm.org/is-mormonism-christian

http://www.carm.org/brigham-young-quotes

Uhh so you are reading information about Mormons from other Christians who typically don't like to view Mormons as Christians. Well gee-golly I hope you find the correct answer there!

So in order to be buried there, you have to sign a contract with the government saying that you agree to use only one of their approved religious symbols.

Again, how is that any different than the issue in the OP?

Uhh, public land versus private land for one. Two, tombstones in Arlington do not display any government markings along with the religious symbols.

 

[BoberFett]

Uhh, public land versus private land for one. Two, tombstones in Arlington do not display any government markings along with the religious symbols.

Who does the land belong to prior to it becoming a privately owned burial plot?

 

[woolfe9999]

Private land. Nice try at trolling though. While parts of the cemetery are public, the plots are definitely private. As such, on a plot of private land, the owners of that plot can put whatever the hell they want there.

Edit, the owners of the plot can do what they want under stipulations of the contract of ownership of the plot. I have lots of family buried there

It also does not matter even if it is public land, if it is a small cross on a grave. The cross in that context is personal to the deceased, i.e. it reflects the religion of the deceased. As such, it would not be construed as the government endorsing religion.

- wolf

 

[hal2kilo]

The funny thing is Mormons dont even use crosses or put crosses on their churches. Only Christians do that. You might not know that if you are not a Mormon.

Just a bunch of golden spires with angels blowing trumpets. Nope no symbolism there.

 

[hal2kilo]

Ugh. You're dense.

About as much as a neutron star.

 

[hal2kilo]

I've never understood those roadside memorials in general. If a section of road is so dangerous that someone actually DIED, why would you want to distract drivers by piling a bunch of crap there?

"Hey! Look over here! My brother lost control in this curve coming up right now so be very caref..." CRUNCH.

Oops.

Yeah, you'd think they might have a memorial for the person asking for donations to put up some warning signs instead.

 

[hal2kilo]

:hmm:

I need to get new glasses. All this time I thought it was a traditional picture of Jesus with a lamb, lol.

 

[hal2kilo]

Arlingon National Cemetery has the religious symbols of the servicemen buried in each plot, including crosses, stars of David, crescent moons, atheist atoms, and pentacles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ns_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers

Thanks that was quite interesting and enlightening. I never knew there were so many different Christian symbols, let alone all the other religious and belief system symbols.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Let's just outlaw roadside death memorials for being a tacky eyesore. Why so many rightie-tighties are for this adopted south of the border tradition is beyond me.