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Court rules highway cross unconstitutional

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MJinZ

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Bateluer said:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/18/utah.highway.crosses/index.html

Hmm, Utah. While I'm not very religious myself, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement officers. They have one of the most difficult and thankless jobs out there, and have to deal with endless criticism about every little detail in their duties.
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Oh yah, so thankless that they make 6 figures and bankrupt everyone with their million dollah pension.

I wished I was thanked less too
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,288
14,706
146
piasabird said:
The funny thing is Mormons dont even use crosses or put crosses on their churches. Only Christians do that. You might not know that if you are not a Mormon.
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We lived in Jew-tah for a few years...NONE of the Mormon steeples or temples have crosses...just a single spire...or that dammed golden angel...
 
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PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Pens1566 said:
Ugh. You're dense.
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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Please explain to me how having memorials on the side of the highway in *any* way comes close to violating this.

"Separation of Church and State" is a phrase used to describe the general intent of the first amendment, it is not an all-encompassing interpretation of it. Ordering that these crosses be removed, I would argue, is more in the line of prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Common sense would go a long way for some of these judges.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,785
6,345
126
PeshakJang said:
Please explain to me how having memorials on the side of the highway in *any* way comes close to violating this.

"Separation of Church and State" is a phrase used to describe the general intent of the first amendment, it is not an all-encompassing interpretation of it. Ordering that these crosses be removed, I would argue, is more in the line of prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Common sense would go a long way for some of these judges.
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Fail
 
HumblePie

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Mursilis said:
Since these are funded by a private group and no public money is involved, I don't see the issue here (assuming the troopers being honored by these crosses were in fact Christians). And I would expect that if a Muslim trooper died in the line of duty, his/her monument would have a Muslim crescent (I think that's their universal symbol), a Jewish trooper monument would have the Star of David, and an atheist officer's monument would be a simple pillar or oblisek or something appropriate to the family.
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The problem isn't that they are funded by private money and not directly by state money, is that they use police and government symbols on the memorials. That is an indirect endorsement.

Why use crosses at all? Would not a round tombstone or a wall or something else with no religious affiliation not work as well to memorialize the police officers regardless of their religious affiliation during life? Is not the point of a memorial to bring awareness of the dead to the living? Does it also have to reflect some religious ideology to do so?

It is not as if these are they actual burial spots for these officers. It is a memorial. The officers I'm sure have their crosses, or whatever symbols they believe in, for their actual resting place. Does it need to be duplicated by a roadside?
 
dainthomas

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,934
3,914
136
I've never understood those roadside memorials in general. If a section of road is so dangerous that someone actually DIED, why would you want to distract drivers by piling a bunch of crap there?

"Hey! Look over here! My brother lost control in this curve coming up right now so be very caref..." CRUNCH.

Oops.
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
raptor.jpg


:hmm:
 
Bateluer

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
dainthomas said:
I've never understood those roadside memorials in general. If a section of road is so dangerous that someone actually DIED, why would you want to distract drivers by piling a bunch of crap there?

"Hey! Look over here! My brother lost control in this curve coming up right now so be very caref..." CRUNCH.

Oops.
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These are for police officers, state troopers. They probably weren't killed at that mile marker on the highway, its not a sign that the road is dangerous, though I suppose some of the officers may have been killed in a traffic stop altercation or some such.

I'll reiterate my position. This is the state of Utah's business, not the Federal Government. The state of Utah is fully justified in flipping the Court the bird and leaving the memorials where they are.
 
halik

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Bateluer said:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/18/utah.highway.crosses/index.html

Hmm, Utah. While I'm not very religious myself, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement officers. They have one of the most difficult and thankless jobs out there, and have to deal with endless criticism about every little detail in their duties. Fallen officers should be regarded and memorialized as the heroes that they are.

Having said that, I'm not sure large road side memorials, such as crosses, are the best answer. I always get a little annoyed when I'm driving on a surface street and there's a large 'memorial' off the shoulder from someone killed by a drunk driver or something.

Still, I think people should be reminded that the police they love to insult and sue are out there dying to keep them safe.

Edit - Something to add. This is in the state of Utah, and funded by a nonprofit group not using public money to install or maintain the crosses. If I was the Governor of Utah, I would likely be inclined to tell the Federal court to F* off, only in a slightly more polite manner. Seems like a state issue to me, not something the federal government should be involved with at all.
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Cross with some numbers on it generally means "someone died here" to me. Don't think this establishes religion in any way.
 
L

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
this seems pretty bad to me..as long as the person who was being memorialized wouldn't have objected

sometimes people just take things too far
 
Fingolfin269

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
guyver01 said:
no.. i made the assumption that someone who doesn't understand the laws that this land was founded upon (freedom of religion) .. was an uneducated dumbfuck from down south.
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I'm surprised these types of attacks are allowed.

Nevermind, just remembered I'm in P&N where this type of posting is smiled upon. :)
 
xj0hnx

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Where are the 1st Amendment warriors screaming that anyone against a private organizations freedom of speech is an enemy of the Constitution?
 
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