Court rules highway cross unconstitutional

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/18/utah.highway.crosses/index.html

Hmm, Utah. While I'm not very religious myself, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement officers. They have one of the most difficult and thankless jobs out there, and have to deal with endless criticism about every little detail in their duties. Fallen officers should be regarded and memorialized as the heroes that they are.

Having said that, I'm not sure large road side memorials, such as crosses, are the best answer. I always get a little annoyed when I'm driving on a surface street and there's a large 'memorial' off the shoulder from someone killed by a drunk driver or something.

Still, I think people should be reminded that the police they love to insult and sue are out there dying to keep them safe.

Edit - Something to add. This is in the state of Utah, and funded by a nonprofit group not using public money to install or maintain the crosses. If I was the Governor of Utah, I would likely be inclined to tell the Federal court to F* off, only in a slightly more polite manner. Seems like a state issue to me, not something the federal government should be involved with at all.

Washington (CNN) -- Memorial crosses erected along Utah public roads to honor fallen state highway troopers have been found unconstitutional by a federal appeals court.

A three-judge panel of the 10th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals ruled Wednesday that the 14 large crosses would be viewed by most passing motorists as "government's endorsement of Christianity."

"We hold that these memorials have the impermissible effect of conveying to the reasonable observer the message that the state prefers or otherwise endorses a certain religion," concluded the Denver, Colorado-based court. The state of Utah and a private trooper association have the option of appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court.

A Texas-based group, American Atheists, successfully sued five years ago to have the nonprofit memorial project scrapped, and the crosses removed from public property.

At issue was whether the crosses violated the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, by having the government endorsing the Christian symbols, even if indirectly.

Although the suit went against the memorial project, the crosses were allowed to remain pending appeals in the case. They are still in place.

The Utah Highway Patrol Association in 1998 began erecting the monuments, which contain the fallen trooper's name, rank, and badge number. A picture of the officer and some biographical information is included on a separate plaque placed where the two bars of the cross meet. The state insignia is also included, which the judges in particular raised with constitutional concerns.

The service group said their main message was not religious in nature, but among other things, to serve as "a lasting reminder to UHPA members and Utah highway patrol troopers that a fellow trooper gave his life in service to this state" and to "encourage safe conduct on the highways."

While placed on public land and with the state's permission, the crosses themselves are privately owned and maintained. The state expressly noted it "neither approves or disapproves of the memorial marker."

In rejecting the crosses, the appeals court made several arguments, such as the large size and location of the crosses -- on busy public highways where motorists cannot help but notice. Other similar memorial crosses have been erected on public land such as Arlington National Cemetery to honor fallen war dead. But the judges noted those markers are generally accessible or visible only to those who expressly choose to visit them, unlike roads where citizens cannot help but see them.

The Supreme Court has in recent years taken a case-by-case approach to Establishment Clause cases. The justices in 1947 said the government needed to be "neutral" but "not an adversary" toward religion. The court has upheld legislative chaplaincies, tax exemptions for churches, and the mention of "God" on U.S. currency and in oaths of office.

At the same time, government-sponsored school prayer is banned, and limits imposed on aid to parochial schools.

The court's record on religious displays on public land is more mixed, with "context" a key criteria. The justices last year decided on free-speech grounds a small religious group could not erect a granite monument in a Utah park next to an existing Ten Commandments display, which for the time being was allowed to stay.

And this past June, the conservative majority of the court concluded a cross designed as war memorial in lonely stretch of national parkland in the California desert did not violate the constitutional separation of church and state.

In 2005, a Ten Commandments monument on the Texas statehouse grounds was allowed to stand, since it was surrounded by historical markers. But the same day Ten Commandment parchments in two Kentucky county courthouses were ruled unconstitutional, with the high court majority calling them "a governmental effort substantially to promote religion, not simply an effort primarily to reflect, historically, the secular impact of a religiously inspired document."

And some nativity scenes and menorahs placed in public parks during December have been allowed to stand, while some were ordered removed.

The 10th Circuit rejected arguments from the UHPA that many roads contain crosses or other religious symbols placed by private individuals honoring a dead relative killed in car accidents.

"The mere fact that the cross is a common symbol used in roadside memorials does not mean it is a secular symbol," said the panel. "The massive size of the crosses displayed on Utah's rights-of-way and public property unmistakably conveys a message of endorsement, proselytization, and aggrandizement of religion that is far different from the more humble spirit of small roadside crosses."

The judges also disregarded suggestions that since most of the deceased troopers were Mormon, where the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not uses the cross as a religious symbol, the highway memorials were merely symbols of death and did not promote a a particular faith.

There was no immediate reaction to the opinion from American Atheists or the UHPA.

The case is American Atheists v. Duncan (08-4061).
 
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guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,135
5
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Who's erecting these memorials? if it's the family... who gives a shit?
if it's an official organization... i agree with the ruling.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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I'm all in favor of decisions that separate church and state.

Too bad these didn't involve muslim markers 'cause then we'd see the resident bleeding hearts getting totally worked up about it.
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,135
5
61
Too bad these didn't involve muslim markers 'cause then we'd see the resident bleeding hearts getting totally worked up about it.

Freedom of Religion!!!

except when it involves a religion i dont like huh?

typical southern redneck crap.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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freak would be appropriate.

Uh huh nice try. You made a dumb assumption that if someone takes issue with Islam they must be some sort of redneck christian. Except I'm not a redneck christian. But keep trying new personal attacks. Makes it clear that you lack credibility.
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,135
5
61
Uif someone takes issue with Islam they must be some sort of redneck christian. .

no.. i made the assumption that someone who doesn't understand the laws that this land was founded upon (freedom of religion) .. was an uneducated dumbfuck from down south.

apparently i was correct, as your reading skills are severely lacking.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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Freedom of Religion!!!

except when it involves a religion i dont like huh?

typical southern redneck crap.

Comon guyver, admit you were characterizing my position as someone who believes in freedom of religion except for muslims. Otherwise your stupid quip doesn't really make sense in terms of the quote you selected. Or did you just select the second part of my post by accident?

And now you're suggesting I'm from down south? I recently called the confederate flag the flag of traitors... Not exactly something a traditional southerner would say.

You are totally off base and totally owned. Keep trying to backtrack though. ;) It makes you look dumber and dumber.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
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If the group isn't using public funding, just scale the size down to what is common for other deaths along roadways, and everything should be just fine.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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I'm all in favor of decisions that separate church and state.

Too bad these didn't involve muslim markers 'cause then we'd see the resident bleeding hearts getting totally worked up about it.

You have to lie about the left to make your points. That would tell a sensible person they might be in error. I don't mean you, of course.

Liberals have the same position on Muslim crescents as Christian symbols on this issue.

You are just lying out of your blind ideology.
 

khon

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2010
1,318
124
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I don't really care about the size of the crosses, and the placement while on public land obviously has to be where the death occured.

The only thing I think they should have avoided is the inclusion of the state insignia on the crosses, which to my mind is what makes it unconstitutional.

Still I'd never care enough to actually sue over something that is clearly only symbolic.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
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Since these are funded by a private group and no public money is involved, I don't see the issue here (assuming the troopers being honored by these crosses were in fact Christians). And I would expect that if a Muslim trooper died in the line of duty, his/her monument would have a Muslim crescent (I think that's their universal symbol), a Jewish trooper monument would have the Star of David, and an atheist officer's monument would be a simple pillar or oblisek or something appropriate to the family.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
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I don't see anything in the constitution that says "separation of church and state".

If all those police officers were Christian, why wouldn't they put Christian crosses up to honor them?

If the family asked for a Jewish star, why wouldn't you put that up?

If this were Islamic symbols, Pelosi would no doubt call for an investigation into the Court's funding.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
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How long till we have to start tearing down all the crosses, Star of David, etc.... from national cemeteries? I mean just think how much prettier Arlington National Cemetery would be without all those religious symbols spoiling the landscape.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
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How long till we have to start tearing down all the crosses, Star of David, etc.... from national cemeteries? I mean just think how much prettier Arlington National Cemetery would be without all those religious symbols spoiling the landscape.

We probably shouldn't even allow religious believers to be buried there. That would free up a lot of space as well and make those pesky gravestones go away entirely. :sneaky:
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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The funny thing is Mormons dont even use crosses or put crosses on their churches. Only Christians do that. You might not know that if you are not a Mormon.