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Couple with three sons abort twin boys conceived with IVF

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PieIsAwesome said:
I, however, cannot sleep at night thinking about all those potential siblings that never came to be because my parents simply decided not to produce them. Those murderous bastards. Boycott condoms. And to think that if genetic material had mixed in a slightly different way I would not exist the way I do now. Or if this. Or if that. What if? What if I were Superman?
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Totally not.the.same.
 
moshquerade said:
I *knew* you were going to come back with that. 😛

a lot of women have given up their lives for their child. women forgo cancer treatment so their developing child can live. some may think them stupid for giving their lives for their child. i call it selfless.

in the case of rape, i would still have the child.

we can agree to disagree on this. my views won't change. i am still against having an abortion. a lot of women who do have abortions regret it. it's a heart-wrenching decision for some.

again, i will emphasize though, before others jump in to insult me, i have never voiced my opinion to anyone else who's had an abortion. it's not my decision to make for them. this is just my own personal opinion of the matter.
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No, what i am asking is if YOU would choose the fetus's uncertain life over yours after having being raped.

Naturally you don't really know how you would feel because this isn't a natural situation for you, i sincerely doubt you could even possibly fathom what it would be like to be in that situation but you will still answer.... that is my point.

I am glad to see that you don't require others to live after your values though, we definently agree on that one.

I don't think i have anything more to say on that except that the world needs more who think like you do.
 
gorcorps said:
Their money, their family, her body. Anybody who tries to stick their nose in somebody's life and business can just fuck right off. It boggles the mind that people are fine with creating life semi-unnaturally through IVF, but flip out over cancelling that same unnatural life. The family would have been miserable, and maybe would have tried again for a girl. If they couldn't afford it then the life for the kids suck. Aborting is far more humane than some of the other alternatives.
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Totally agree.

With regards to the bolded, unwanted children born to mothers who live in poverty are at a higher risk for committing criminal activity, which is detrimental to society.

Women should have access to safe, professional abortion services, and I believe it should be government-subsidized, since lower-income women couldn't afford abortions otherwise. That said, the emphasis should be on sexual education and contraception - abortion should be only a tertiary measure.

There are of course other instances where abortion is warranted - genetic defects, or pregnancy resulting from rape for example.

However, that's not the case here, and the couple should be completely within their rights to abort. That said, the Australian official has a point - they should probably consider adopting a girl at this point if they want one so badly.
 
eits said:
that's a shame. i think it's stupid, selfish, morally unsettling, and a complete waste of money. i think it's reprehensible what they've done... however, it's not my body nor is it my business.

ugh... disgusting fucks.
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People have literally said the exact same thing about chiropractic medicine. Just saying...
 
DingDingDao said:
People have literally said the exact same thing about chiropractic medicine. Just saying...
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lol wow, i have no idea how in the hell the same could possibly be said about chiropractic care whatsoever. i mean, i can definitely see how it can be said about certain chiropractors (because i say the same thing about certain other chiropractors with different philosophies... some of my patients had seen other chiropractors in the past and were just getting hurt and swindled and not treated well whatsoever), but not chiropractic care.

anyways, please let's not make this yet another derailed thread. stay on topic.

just saying.
 
eits said:
lol wow, i have no idea how in the hell the same could possibly be said about chiropractic care whatsoever. i mean, i can see how it can be said about certain chiropractors, but not chiropractic care.

anyways, please let's not make this yet another derailed thread. stay on topic.

just saying.
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Fair enough.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I am glad to see that you don't require others to live after your values though, we definently agree on that one.

I don't think i have anything more to say on that except that the world needs more who think like you do.
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:thumbsup:

While I disagree with mosh's stance, I like that she keeps her views for herself and isn't trying to impose them on others.

More people should take this attitude on many issues, not just regarding abortion.
 
While I agree that people should have a right to choose when to have an abortion I think that these people exercised their right in a pretty selfish stupid way.

If you want to be sure you're getting a baby girl, adopt a kid.
 
eits said:
lol wow, i have no idea how in the hell the same could possibly be said about chiropractic care whatsoever. i mean, i can see how it can be said about certain chiropractors, but not chiropractic care.

anyways, please let's not make this yet another derailed thread. stay on topic.

just saying.
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Well i don't have any idea how you could have said that what those parents did was wrong either.

Alternative treatments are a waste of money and time but it's their bodies so why should i care...
 
moshquerade said:
Totally not.the.same.
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Prove it.

The only difference is the point in time during the process of conception. Choosing to conceive, and everything leading up to it, are part of the process. All of it lead to the potential creation of a person. And deciding to cancel the process during any part of the process will be the cancellation of a potential person. Why is it arbitrarily decided that the point of no return, the point at which cancellation is no longer acceptable, is that at which fertilization occurs?

"Oh dear, what if I had decided to use birth control, this wonderful child would never have come to be!"

But what about those times that birth control was used? Those could have all been wonderful children too.

What if? What if? The what if game doesn't work.
 
moshquerade said:
I was raised Catholic too 😉

but, what i meant was, no fetus ≠ a fetus
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Yeah, well, heh, i agree on that.

However, sex without the intent to procreate is strictly forbidden within the Catholic doctrine, so forbidden that condoms don't prevent aids in Africa.

Pics of you in your schoolgirl uniform? 😉

I swear to god those uniforms are meant to test the schoolboys faith, i left the faith at age 13. 😀
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Yeah, well, heh, i agree on that.

However, sex without the intent to procreate is strictly forbidden within the Catholic doctrine, so forbidden that condoms don't prevent aids in Africa.

Pics of you in your schoolgirl uniform? 😉

I swear to god those uniforms are meant to test the schoolboys faith, i left the faith at age 13. 😀
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i don't agree with some of what the Catholic church professes either. :\
Birth control being one. They also are against fertility treatments like the IVF mentioned in the article. I don't agree with their stance on that either.

i went to a catholic school up through eighth grade. ninth grade in the public school was wild. 😱
 
TheVrolok said:
Morality is what helps society get things accomplished as a group; Hell, it's partly responsible for the existence of society.
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Ahhh, and here i thought that laws were the what built nations, not group morality based on whatever the groups think is moral...

You really should bring this up to all western governments, they don't get it, your friends the Taliban get it though, they enforce it with the risk of their own lives too.

Anyones version of morality applies only to themselves or whatever group they have managed to fool into sharing their values and it's only ever used to judge those who don't adhere to that version of morality.

let's take my team as an example, we have rules shared among us that apply only to us, these are not moral values, these are not values that anyone besides us are ever supposed to be expected to follow, some of them might make others look down on us, some of them would make people look up to us, we really don't give a shit, we don't want anyone but this team to ever know about them.

That's not morality, that is a shared set of rules.
 
moshquerade said:
i don't agree with some of what the Catholic church professes either. :\
Birth control being one. They also are against fertility treatments like the IVF mentioned in the article. I don't agree with their stance on that either.

i went to a catholic school up through eighth grade. ninth grade in the public school was wild. 😱
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Not to bring up my lifes story but, after 13, confirmation, i left the faith, my parents kicked me out on my own, right out on the street with a bag of clothes... Actually my mum did, when i came home the day after having told them she told me to pack a bag, i thought we were going somewhere but i'm the only one who was and the only place i was going was out of their house.

They were REALLY into the doctrine, and no, i hadn't even told them that i had sex before they kicked me out.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Ahhh, and here i thought that laws were the what built nations, not group morality based on whatever the groups think is moral...

You really should bring this up to all western governments, they don't get it, your friends the Taliban get it though, they enforce it with the risk of their own lives too.

Anyones version of morality applies only to themselves or whatever group they have managed to fool into sharing their values and it's only ever used to judge those who don't adhere to that version of morality.

let's take my team as an example, we have rules shared among us that apply only to us, these are not moral values, these are not values that anyone besides us are ever supposed to be expected to follow, some of them might make others look down on us, some of them would make people look up to us, we really don't give a shit, we don't want anyone but this team to ever know about them.

That's not morality, that is a shared set of rules.
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I'm going out to dinner, so rather than type up a real response I'll just say you're clueless. Where do you suppose the basis for law came from? A common set of ideas that were to benefit most people (morals). Even Nietzsche said, "Morality is the herd instinct in the individual."
 
Kind of a moot point now isn't it?

Still, I can't imagine ever aborting a child now that I'm a father myself...but that's my own personal view and not one that I care to impose on anyone else. I'm fine with abortion being legal.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Not to bring up my lifes story but, after 13, confirmation, i left the faith, my parents kicked me out on my own, right out on the street with a bag of clothes... Actually my mum did, when i came home the day after having told them she told me to pack a bag, i thought we were going somewhere but i'm the only one who was and the only place i was going was out of their house.

They were REALLY into the doctrine, and no, i hadn't even told them that i had sex before they kicked me out.
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13??? where did you go?

and see, to me, that was unChristian, what they did.

i have to go out too, will read response later
 
i personally find the actions of the parents morally unsettling because they could have given the babies up for adoption to parents who really, really want a baby and can't have one (like a juno situation). for them to selfishly abort the twins without any regard for them or potential parents who WOULD want babies is morally unsettling to me. it's not immoral, but it's pretty close.
 
TheVrolok said:
I'm going out to dinner, so rather than type up a real response I'll just say you're clueless. Where do you suppose the basis for law came from? A common set of ideas that were to benefit most people (morals). Even Nietzsche said, "Morality is the herd instinct in the individual."
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LOL, perhaps Nietzche wasn't much of a scientist or he would have known that inherent herd instinct is really empathy and morality is just retarded bullsheit for the retarded people who needs to feel better about themselves.
 
moshquerade said:
13??? where did you go?

and see, to me, that was unChristian, what they did.

i have to go out too, will read response later
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For a while i lived on the streets, then my grandparents on my mothers side found out and i lived with them.

Don't worry about it, i'm only online for a few hours and will probably miss any reply to this, if you want to you are free to PM me but it might take a while before i respond, this is last day on base before going home. 🙂
 
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