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Couple with three sons abort twin boys conceived with IVF

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moshquerade said:
Ok John, so this news source is like the National Enquirer here? Which is a rag sheet that prints mostly lies.
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Aye, or kind of like the Onion, there is an ounce of fact in the story but everything is made up and that fact isn't even relevant to the story when they are done editing.
 
I don't want to ban abortion, but I am very much against the folks who consider it a valid form of birth control. Probably 95% of abortions would be unnecessary with the use of a simple condom. If you are so dead set against having a kid that you would kill it in the womb, then use some f'ing birth control. /rant

Back to the topic...I wont pass judgment and say the couple in the story doesn't have the moral right to abort based on gender, but I am sad that they would even want to. It's a breakdown in our cultural values much more than it's a legal issue. Children used to be considered a blessing. Now they are only a blessing when they are the correct gender?
 
Paladin3 said:
I don't want to ban abortion, but I am very much against the folks who consider it a valid form of birth control. Probably 95% of abortions would be unnecessary with the use of a simple condom. If you are so dead set against having a kid that you would kill it in the womb, then use some f'ing birth control. /rant

Back to the topic...I wont pass judgment and say the couple in the story doesn't have the moral right to abort based on gender, but I am sad that they would even want to. It's a breakdown in our cultural values much more than it's a legal issue. Children used to be considered a blessing. Now they are only a blessing when they are the correct gender?
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A moral right? You've got to be kidding me. I'd love to hear an argument that's not based off of selfishness which gives people the moral right to abort.
 
Modular said:
Really? So you've affected no one with your life? Who are you to say what effect this has had on the world?

Also, just because someone isn't sentient doesn't mean that they aren't a person. If we used that as a basis for all of our decisions regarding life, then we would have the "right" as a society to kill off the part of the mentally handicapped society that is so ill that they can't form memories, feel happiness, and think for themselves, something any sane person would have a problem with.

The real issue with abortion is that people don't want to face responsibility. Kids, adults, teens, whatever; they all want to have no consequences for their actions and abortion gives them that "right". In the end, they're killing a human being, and the world is worse off because of it, and they will have to answer for it one day.

Acts like this serve absolutely no purpose to the family. They willfully took a life based on the whimsical notion that they would rather have a daughter. It's gut wrenching to think that adults can have such a childish, selfish view of life.
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I invoke moonbeams mirror here.

Those who judge others do it not out of empathy for a bunch of cells that might or might not have become something much later (wait... why don't we freese all brain dead people, perhaps they can live for hundreds of years in the future, is it RIGHT TO TAKE THEIR LIVES? At any rate, it can't be right to take their organs, hell that would be like taking stem cells from aborted fetuses) but rather because that is the only way they can at least feel something good about themselves "at least i am better than her/him/them".

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.

Consider yourself judged. 😉
 
Kev said:
This is probably the stupidest, most selfish reason one could possibly have for an abortion.
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Yeah this couple are idiots, I wouldn't mind 5 boys at all, I have a friend that has 3 daughters and his life is boring, no football and no UFC to watch with them, he goes to those events by himself.
 
Modular said:
A moral right? You've got to be kidding me. I'd love to hear an argument that's not based off of selfishness which gives people the moral right to abort.
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Excuse me, maker of morality for all of mankind to live after.... Perhaps you should fucking write down your moral code that the world should live after because otherwise.... how the fuck should we know?
 
It is no one's business. I mean certainly you can bitch about it, but you have no power to do anything and shouldn't either.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Aye, or kind of like the Onion, there is an ounce of fact in the story but everything is made up and that fact isn't even relevant to the story when they are done editing.
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Aye? You sound like a Captain Jack Sparrow. 😛

Ok, I will remember that for the future, didn't realize the dailymail was that bad.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Excuse me, maker of morality for all of mankind to live after.... Perhaps you should fucking write down your moral code that the world should live after because otherwise.... how the fuck should we know?
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Why don't you spend some time building an argument that proves me wrong?
 
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Modular said:
Why don't you spend some time building an argument that proves me wrong?

Until then, feel free to continue adding nothing to this discussion.
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You want me to prove YOUR morality wrong? How the FUCK could i possibly do that? It's YOURS and YOURS alone, unfortunantly you don't understand that.

My point is that it's YOURS and it applies ONLY to you, if you think that others need to live by it, you are wrong.

Is that clear enough for your dumb arse?
 
Modular said:
A moral right? You've got to be kidding me. I'd love to hear an argument that's not based off of selfishness which gives people the moral right to abort.
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I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear. Yes, their decisions are the definition of selfishness.

What I meant was that I am not sure I am in favor of society stopping this couple from what they are doing. I don't think passing laws forbidding things like this really work. I'd personally love to see zero abortions, but I know that's not practical. People will always find a way to do what they want.

But I am very sad that the couple would even consider doing what they are and even more sad that so many seem to agree. Again, I see the bigger issue here is that our cultural values have largely collapsed. Maybe I'm just too old and need to get with the times.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I invoke moonbeams mirror here.

Those who judge others do it not out of empathy for a bunch of cells that might or might not have become something much later (wait... why don't we freese all brain dead people, perhaps they can live for hundreds of years in the future, is it RIGHT TO TAKE THEIR LIVES? At any rate, it can't be right to take their organs, hell that would be like taking stem cells from aborted fetuses) but rather because that is the only way they can at least feel something good about themselves "at least i am better than her/him/them".

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.

Consider yourself judged. 😉
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This idea is in and of itself a logical fallacy. It assumes that someone has an opinion because they are trying to feel better about themselves, which is entirely inaccurate in many situations.

Also, the argument itself is a judgment. How can I ever take it seriously if it offers no insightful means by which to criticize without judging? It's basically judging judgment and then calling judgment bad...like a cat chasing its tail, it goes nowhere and has no substance.
 
xanis said:
Getting an abortion based on not being able to properly love/care for a child is one thing. Getting an abortion because you wanted a girl and got boys is something different, and not exactly right IMO.
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Yea I agree. Man thats just sad. Because they were boys..............wow. I wanted a boy, I think most fathers do, but I got blessed with two girls. Thats the way it is sometimes.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
You want me to prove YOUR morality wrong? How the FUCK could i possibly do that? It's YOURS and YOURS alone, unfortunantly you don't understand that.

My point is that it's YOURS and it applies ONLY to you, if you think that others need to live by it, you are wrong.

Is that clear enough for your dumb arse?
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I can see that you're defensive and I'm sorry for that because it's going to cloud your ability to ever see things from the other side on this issue.

I'll leave you with this: I disagree that all parts of morality can be neatly boiled down to individual beliefs. We, as a society believe that there are absolute truths (at least a few) and some of those are measurable. Selfish decisions are measurable, and for the most part, society will agree that selfish acts which impact others are detrimental. Just because they happen doesn't make them right.
 
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