Could you manage as a Poor American?

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,874
10,222
136
Why dont we have a downvote button?
I think we did and it was eliminated in an "upgrade," or should I say, "downgrade?" ;) The closest thing we have to a downvote now is the laugh emoji. Some people use it to denote finding the post absurd, not actually inducing laughter. Very imperfect, because some posts are just plain funny and make you laugh. You have to be discerning in interpreting the use of those 4 vote emojis:

I approve or kudos
I love
I find funny OR absurd
I am shocked
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,874
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The study I saw said it only takes a day on paper; three on plastic. Plus, the virus is mainly transmitted person-to-person anyway.
I'm aware of these things, however WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? Everything you read?????? I've seen it said that the virus can survive on hard surfaces, including IIRC plastic, for up to 9 days! Yes, they say 1 on paper or cardboard, but do I believe them? Are you gonna bet your life on somebody's word? Your clock is not going to protect you. "Mainly" doesn't protect you either.

I've seen/heard of many studies. Much of the info from those is not consistent. I saw an expert demonstrate safe procedures on a subway with a network TV news anchor. A couple months later I heard that he'd contracted covid-19. Not the anchor, the expert. Whoops.

Most of my mail (and online orders) is anything but urgent. If I'm antsy to see or use something I'll open it with protocols. Otherwise it can sit a while.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,874
10,222
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First secure a private income, then practice virtue - Greek proverb (or so I keep being told).
Sounds good. I came upon this ditty earlier today:

Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Mark Twain :D
----
24 days until the current administration is jettisoned!
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,874
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I thought I did explain. No, it was not a treatise, but I took measures to provide someone with imagination and experience enough info to read between my lines. I'll try again, and endeavor to not get too verbose:

Frugality, in the context (which is admittedly somewhat personal) here, is just not being wasteful, not being disrespectful of the planet, and your fellow humans. Not engaging in conspicuous consumption. I had a book years ago which mentioned an idea that stuck in my head: When you have money, let's say a good deal of money, you have a responsibility to spend it wisely. My use of the word "frugality" here endeavors to be consistent with that tenant of responsible human behavior.

Thrift, in this particular context, is worrying about not having enough and being (I'm reaching for a word that I haven't used in a long time), chintzy.

English Language Learners Definition of chintzy

: not showing good taste : not tasteful or stylish. : poorly or cheaply done or made : of low quality. US, informal : not willing to spend money or give anything away : stingy or cheap.Nov 10, 2020
- - - -
Neologize

verb (used without object), ne·ol·o·gized, ne·ol·o·giz·ing. to make or use new words or create new meanings for existing words. to devise or accept new religious doctrines.
 
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Pohemi

Lifer
Oct 2, 2004
10,880
16,962
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Why dont we have a downvote button?
We used to? I think. But alas...we are not the bacefookery :p

I've seen it said that the virus can survive on hard surfaces, including IIRC plastic, for up to 9 days!

I've seen/heard of many studies. Much of the info from those is not consistent.
One of the cruiseliners that was stuck out to sea for a number of weeks had some testing done as they were disinfecting the ship, and live virus was apparently found on hard surfaces in sleeping quarters a full 2 weeks after the last occupant left. That's scary shit, but yeah it's hard to say with certainty when studies on viral survivability have not exactly been extensive or coordinated.

Most of the info we've had about COVID has been at least partially speculative (not conclusive, but possibilities that are concerning enough to take precautions).
 
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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
America's definition of poor is much different than other countries. If you are low income here and are not a total irresponsible fuckup, you'll eat and have housing assistance, probably a phone and even a car of some sort, or you'll have public transportation. Unfortunately, a large percentage of those who are homeless and without food, are afflicted by alcoholism, drug addiction, and mental health issues, making it impossible to manage, no matter what they have. Many homeless around here have been evicted from section 8 housing because they couldn't even manage to pay their small portion, the part that is not subsidized. They also sell their EBT benefits for cash to by alcohol or drugs, so rather than eat, they get drunk or high.

I could manage because I don't have those issues. It would be reasonably comfortable survival, having what I need, but not necessarily what I want.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,885
30,687
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America's definition of poor is much different than other countries. If you are low income here and are not a total irresponsible fuckup, you'll eat and have housing assistance, probably a phone and even a car of some sort, or you'll have public transportation. Unfortunately, a large percentage of those who are homeless and without food, are afflicted by alcoholism, drug addiction, and mental health issues, making it impossible to manage, no matter what they have. Many homeless around here have been evicted from section 8 housing because they couldn't even manage to pay their small portion, the part that is not subsidized. They also sell their EBT benefits for cash to by alcohol or drugs, so rather than eat, they get drunk or high.

I could manage because I don't have those issues. It would be reasonably comfortable survival, having what I need, but not necessarily what I want.
Once again you show how disconnected from reality and the plight of the poor you really are.
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,726
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I'm aware of these things, however WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? Everything you read?????? I've seen it said that the virus can survive on hard surfaces, including IIRC plastic, for up to 9 days! Yes, they say 1 on paper or cardboard, but do I believe them? Are you gonna bet your life on somebody's word? Your clock is not going to protect you. "Mainly" doesn't protect you either.
That may be true in idealized lab conditions, where surfaces are swabbed clean of contaminants, humidity can be perfectly controlled, and the surface is free of RNA-eating RNase. Additionally, detection on a surface is not the same thing as enough virus on a surface to get you sick. From the evidence to date, there is no reason to be so paranoid about surfaces and mail.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
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America's definition of poor is much different than other countries. If you are low income here and are not a total irresponsible fuckup, you'll eat and have housing assistance, probably a phone and even a car of some sort, or you'll have public transportation. Unfortunately, a large percentage of those who are homeless and without food, are afflicted by alcoholism, drug addiction, and mental health issues, making it impossible to manage, no matter what they have. Many homeless around here have been evicted from section 8 housing because they couldn't even manage to pay their small portion, the part that is not subsidized. They also sell their EBT benefits for cash to by alcohol or drugs, so rather than eat, they get drunk or high.

I could manage because I don't have those issues. It would be reasonably comfortable survival, having what I need, but not necessarily what I want.
There are some people like that but the vast majority of people below the poverty line dont look poor by your standards so they dont appear poor and dont get the help they really need. Do not be mistaken, there are millions of people in serious trouble right now, and congress & the president have spent most of their careers making life better for the top one percent.
 
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Pohemi

Lifer
Oct 2, 2004
10,880
16,962
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America's definition of poor is much different than other countries. If you are low income here and are not a total irresponsible fuckup, you'll eat and have housing assistance, probably a phone and even a car of some sort, or you'll have public transportation. Unfortunately, a large percentage of those who are homeless and without food, are afflicted by alcoholism, drug addiction, and mental health issues, making it impossible to manage, no matter what they have. Many homeless around here have been evicted from section 8 housing because they couldn't even manage to pay their small portion, the part that is not subsidized. They also sell their EBT benefits for cash to by alcohol or drugs, so rather than eat, they get drunk or high.
I can agree to some extent, especially the point about being 'poor' in the US often being magnitudes above poverty in third world countries. Not too many people in America starve to death unless it is kids who cannot provide for themselves, or those with medical issues including mental health that intentionally avoid eating. There are food pantries and soup kitchens in many communities if you know how to look and are not too proud. Many are just ignorant of help that is available to homeless and destitute folks.

On the other hand, these are also the ideas that are easily exaggerated by the disconnected parties trying to downplay the day-to-day living situations of those in deep poverty.

My situation could definitely be worse, but month-to-month, I have very little room for error and none for "play". My fixed income is ~$10k annually now, but at least it is something.
It took Social Security a full decade to find me 'administratively' disabled, so all of my work credits from jobs had expired (5yrs from when you stop working). Because of this, I do not get actual 'Disability'. I am considered technically disabled by Social Security now, but I am only eligible for SSI because I had 0 work credits left by the time I was finally approved.

I had to fight for a decade to get even that, and of course as soon as the SSI benefits started, other benefits that I had been receiving such as food stamps were cut because my income was no longer 0.

I do not get housing assistance but I am on waiting lists for subsidized housing in several cities or counties here in my state. I have been on these wait lists for more than 5 years now and have never heard anything, though I contact them every 4 to 6 months to check up and try to keep my name on someone's mind, I guess.
I do not have the option of moving to another area unless it is as cheap or cheaper than here, and not many places in the US are.

I won't even get started on my medical issues, including complications being on Medicaid with a state-assigned HMO that risks my life because they don't approve coverage for filling prescriptions of insulin when needed, etc.

My point is that while living in poverty here is do-able for anyone with half a mind for digging up resources and doing what is needed to get by...it isn't easy and involves a lot of jumping through hoops and daily stress and anxiety.
The people who are incapable of managing the mazes and stressors are the ones who will fall through the cracks, whether it's due to mental health problems or simply 'giving up' after tiring of the processes of trying to survive in this kind of financial state.

I am lucky to still be in a situation of living together and sharing expenses with my mother, who is also on disability. The thought in the back of my mind about how things are going to change if/when she passes are not pleasant, and causes a lot of worry about the future.
I see myself needing to find a shoebox apartment or shared dwelling, and it makes me sort of understand why some people actually prefer and choose to simply be homeless instead. I don't exactly have that option due to my health.

/sigh.

Edit for 'funny' side-note: When I joined Anandtech, I was still gainfully employed and working fulltime, and my income was as much as 4x what it is now, heh. I've never been rich but I lived comfortably. What I do now is somewhere between living and basic survival. The disability started ~12 years ago.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,964
55,355
136
America's definition of poor is much different than other countries. If you are low income here and are not a total irresponsible fuckup, you'll eat and have housing assistance, probably a phone and even a car of some sort, or you'll have public transportation. Unfortunately, a large percentage of those who are homeless and without food, are afflicted by alcoholism, drug addiction, and mental health issues, making it impossible to manage, no matter what they have. Many homeless around here have been evicted from section 8 housing because they couldn't even manage to pay their small portion, the part that is not subsidized. They also sell their EBT benefits for cash to by alcohol or drugs, so rather than eat, they get drunk or high.

I could manage because I don't have those issues. It would be reasonably comfortable survival, having what I need, but not necessarily what I want.
The idea that homelessness is primarily driven by drug/alcohol abuse or mental illness is a common misconception.

Take California for example - the exceptionally high homeless rate isn’t because everyone there is drunk or high, it’s because people can’t afford a home because they made building them illegal.
 

Pohemi

Lifer
Oct 2, 2004
10,880
16,962
146
Take California for example - the exceptionally high homeless rate isn’t because everyone there is drunk or high, it’s because people can’t afford a home because they made building them illegal.
Sorta side-topic: I'm curious how many of the homeless population were not residents of CA when they became homeless, but 'migrated' there because of climate (both weather and political climate).

I sure as hell wouldn't want to stay up here in WI if I became homeless...I'd go somewhere warmer and I bet Cali is generally 'friendlier' to homeless than say Florida or Texas.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,964
55,355
136
Sorta side-topic: I'm curious how many of the homeless population were not residents of CA when they became homeless, but 'migrated' there because of climate (both weather and political climate).

I sure as hell wouldn't want to stay up here in WI if I became homeless...I'd go somewhere warmer and I bet Cali is generally 'friendlier' to homeless than say Florida or Texas.
I think there may be some of that - also as you mention the winters in the Midwest and northeast are literally deadly to be outside in so it’s more survivable in Southern California.

Really though if you want to know where lots of homeless people are just look where housing prices are high. This is what I mean when I tell the anti-housing people on here that their position has real human consequences.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,874
10,222
136
That may be true in idealized lab conditions, where surfaces are swabbed clean of contaminants, humidity can be perfectly controlled, and the surface is free of RNA-eating RNase. Additionally, detection on a surface is not the same thing as enough virus on a surface to get you sick. From the evidence to date, there is no reason to be so paranoid about surfaces and mail.
I've gotten better. Thing is, you can't see the viral particles. Once I realized the significance of viral load I stopped being so paranoid. It's more protocols. I really don't need to open my mail right away, I can let it sit. I have each day's mail in its own pile and dated! Packages, I'll set aside or open but either with gloves or I wash my hands. I really don't want to catch this. At first I figured I would, that it would be hard to get to a vaccine before being infected. After a while (and much research) I realized I could minimize my chances of being infected if I did the right things. I mean, look at the numbers of infected daily now. People are either stupid or suffering pandemic fatigue. I am determined to suffer neither and I think I'm doing OK. Maybe a little paranoid about some stuff, but I'd prefer to be overly cautious than letting my guard down and getting sick.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,751
20,324
146
I've gotten better. Thing is, you can't see the viral particles. Once I realized the significance of viral load I stopped being so paranoid. It's more protocols. I really don't need to open my mail right away, I can let it sit. I have each day's mail in its own pile and dated! Packages, I'll set aside or open but either with gloves or I wash my hands. I really don't want to catch this. At first I figured I would, that it would be hard to get to a vaccine before being infected. After a while (and much research) I realized I could minimize my chances of being infected if I did the right things.

Yea, anything I bring home gets wiped down for clorox wipes or equivalent. Cardboard sits for a day right inside the door in the "dirty area" then open and clean anything plastic with sterile wipes.

I now clean my phones on a regular basis, at least whenever I come home, but often while at work and get back to my car as well. And clean my car steering wheel and handles too. Just cleaning stuff all the time, lol.
 
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