Could this election have been fixed?

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Mill
Anyone that posts or buys into the theories from DU is nothing more than a lunatic. That goes for the "fixing" of the election, or to how they are illegally trying to intimidate companies, voters, and anyone who supported Bush. They are right, and if you get in their way they will hurt you. Illegal activities for them are just par for the course. They'd do anything and everything to get Bush out and Kerry in. All you have to do is read their forum(which I've been doing for about 9 months now) to see the desperation and lunacy over there.

Can anyone explain to me how these elections are "rigged" and not a single poll worker, county offiicial, etc has come out and told all? You are talking about hundreds of people colluding in an attempt to undermine the country.

I don't buy it. Anyone that does -- you are insane.

Ignorance. Pass the 7th grade and come back. Grown-ups get tired of your childish name calling.

Electronic voting machines are vulnerable to remote tampering. Locals would not have to be involved at all.


----------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980

Hah, that's hilarious.

E-Voting Machine Can Be Tampered At The Central Tabulator In Less Than 90 Seconds EASILY

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Got any proof to back up your claims?

How am I a hypocrite? Since you seem more interested in personal attacks, this will be my last response to you, ignorant troll.

Evidence: how can we know if this election was fixed if there is no paper record.

How do we know it's what they wanted? All the black box manufacturers are Bush supporters.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Got any proof to back up your claims?

How am I a hypocrite? Since you seem more interested in personal attacks, this will be my last response to you, ignorant troll.

Evidence: how can we know if this election was fixed if there is no paper record.

How do we know it's what they wanted? All the black box manufacturers are Bush supporters.

I'll tell you, there was a bill that was introduced into congress that would require a paper trail in all e-voting precincts... Republicans blocked it.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: chess9
What I don't understand is why a Supervisor of Elections here in Florida would purchase machines that failed to generate a paper trail. That has got to be one of the dumbest governmental decisions I've ever heard.

The "Supervisor of Elections" when a lot of those machines were purchased was Katherine Harris, a diehard Republican now "elected" to the House of Representatives using the croooked machines she put into place. The lack of a paper trail is NOT an oversight.

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Got any proof to back up your claims?

How am I a hypocrite? Since you seem more interested in personal attacks, this will be my last response to you, ignorant troll.

Evidence: how can we know if this election was fixed if there is no paper record.

How do we know it's what they wanted? All the black box manufacturers are Bush supporters.

Because you always demand proof, yet here you sit with NONE. Hypocrite.

 

[randym431]

From CNN news...

Glitch gave Bush extra votes in Ohio

I frekin told you so!!!!!

 

[chess9]

glugglug:

As much as I despise Katherine Harris, I believe the local supervisors buy voting machines. Thus, in Florida, we have a hodgepodge of different voting technologies. That approach does have one benefit/detriment: counties will have DIFFERENT problems.

-Robert

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: randym431
From CNN news...

Glitch gave Bush extra votes in Ohio

I frekin told you so!!!!!

LOL. Yes, one instance of an error(that was corrected) is OBVIOUSLY a conspiracy.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Mill
Anyone that posts or buys into the theories from DU is nothing more than a lunatic. That goes for the "fixing" of the election, or to how they are illegally trying to intimidate companies, voters, and anyone who supported Bush. They are right, and if you get in their way they will hurt you. Illegal activities for them are just par for the course. They'd do anything and everything to get Bush out and Kerry in. All you have to do is read their forum(which I've been doing for about 9 months now) to see the desperation and lunacy over there.

Can anyone explain to me how these elections are "rigged" and not a single poll worker, county offiicial, etc has come out and told all? You are talking about hundreds of people colluding in an attempt to undermine the country.

I don't buy it. Anyone that does -- you are insane.

Ignorance. Pass the 7th grade and come back. Grown-ups get tired of your childish name calling.

Electronic voting machines are vulnerable to remote tampering. Locals would not have to be involved at all.


----------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980

Hah, that's hilarious.

E-Voting Machine Can Be Tampered At The Central Tabulator In Less Than 90 Seconds EASILY

Again, that still presupposes a massive conspiracy with many people.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Mill
Anyone that posts or buys into the theories from DU is nothing more than a lunatic. That goes for the "fixing" of the election, or to how they are illegally trying to intimidate companies, voters, and anyone who supported Bush. They are right, and if you get in their way they will hurt you. Illegal activities for them are just par for the course. They'd do anything and everything to get Bush out and Kerry in. All you have to do is read their forum(which I've been doing for about 9 months now) to see the desperation and lunacy over there.

Can anyone explain to me how these elections are "rigged" and not a single poll worker, county offiicial, etc has come out and told all? You are talking about hundreds of people colluding in an attempt to undermine the country.

I don't buy it. Anyone that does -- you are insane.

Ignorance. Pass the 7th grade and come back. Grown-ups get tired of your childish name calling.

Electronic voting machines are vulnerable to remote tampering. Locals would not have to be involved at all.


----------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980

Hah, that's hilarious.

E-Voting Machine Can Be Tampered At The Central Tabulator In Less Than 90 Seconds EASILY

Again, that still presupposes a massive conspiracy with many people.

Yep, that's true. It would be impossible for a handful of people to pull off something this big. They would have to be in a thousand places at once.

If only they had some way of putting all the tabulating servers in one room. Better yet, if only there was some way they could alter the servers without physically touching them. How could one do that? Long sticks? No, too many physical limitations.

How about electrical access? No, that would never work either. That would require wires running into every location with the servers. That would surely attract attention. And then someone would have to connect the wires to the server. There's no way anyone would do that for legitimate reasons. And then you'd need some way to MOdulate and DEModulate the electrical signals to control the servers. But even if you had all that, you'd still need exotic software to allow external electrical access.

Forgive me, I'm just talking crazy. What kind of insane, Star Trek technology would it take to access hundreds of servers from a central location? You're right, Mill. It's impossible. There is no conceivable way a handful of people could do anything like this. It would have to be a vast conspiracy of thousands of people individually touching each server. That's the only way.

:roll:

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: randym431
Could this election have been fixed?

Do a web search on Diebold, manufacturer of voting machines. The head honcho at Diebold promised to "deliver" victory to the Republicans in 2004. Hmm...

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Mill
Anyone that posts or buys into the theories from DU is nothing more than a lunatic. That goes for the "fixing" of the election, or to how they are illegally trying to intimidate companies, voters, and anyone who supported Bush. They are right, and if you get in their way they will hurt you. Illegal activities for them are just par for the course. They'd do anything and everything to get Bush out and Kerry in. All you have to do is read their forum(which I've been doing for about 9 months now) to see the desperation and lunacy over there.

Can anyone explain to me how these elections are "rigged" and not a single poll worker, county offiicial, etc has come out and told all? You are talking about hundreds of people colluding in an attempt to undermine the country.

I don't buy it. Anyone that does -- you are insane.

Ignorance. Pass the 7th grade and come back. Grown-ups get tired of your childish name calling.

Electronic voting machines are vulnerable to remote tampering. Locals would not have to be involved at all.


----------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980

Hah, that's hilarious.

E-Voting Machine Can Be Tampered At The Central Tabulator In Less Than 90 Seconds EASILY

Again, that still presupposes a massive conspiracy with many people.

Yep, that's true. It would be impossible for a handful of people to pull off something this big. They would have to be in a thousand places at once.

If only they had some way of putting all the tabulating servers in one room. Better yet, if only there was some way they could alter the servers without physically touching them. How could one do that? Long sticks? No, too many physical limitations.

How about electrical access? No, that would never work either. That would require wires running into every location with the servers. That would surely attract attention. And then someone would have to connect the wires to the server. There's no way anyone would do that for legitimate reasons. And then you'd need some way to MOdulate and DEModulate the electrical signals to control the servers. But even if you had all that, you'd still need exotic software to allow external electrical access.

Forgive me, I'm just talking crazy. What kind of insane, Star Trek technology would it take to access hundreds of servers from a central location? You're right, Mill. It's impossible. There is no conceivable way a handful of people could do anything like this. It would have to be a vast conspiracy of thousands of people individually touching each server. That's the only way.

:roll:

Nice try to create a huge strawman(which is exactly what you did). Again, it would behoove you to read nizkor.org's list of fallacies. You simply ignored what I said and attempted to show possible this was. I never said it wasn't possible. I said that anything of this nature would require more than 1, 10, or even 25 people to know about it. There is some technician or drone out there that would of had to have a part of it, and I'm SURE they don't pay that individual enough to offset money they could get by going public now do they?

Hey, Bow, what is a conspiracy? PEOPLE CONSPIRING. PEOPLE. That's my entire point. This wasn't just two guys who did it and have everything to lose if it gets out. If this was done it would require more than a handful of people to have knowledge. You are talking about rigging a national election. How hard is it to understand my position here? Are you going to just throw my logic out the window since it is a genuine question?

Here's a since you will just strawman me again or reply with a personal attack. How about attacking what I said instead? What has you so aghast about me saying it would take more than 2 people to rig an election? Have you ever worked at a poll? Do you work in IT? I ask, because my grandparents worked at polls for 20 something years, and I work in IT. I have no doubt that pulling off such a scheme would require more than just the Diebold machines. You think if it was done that no one in the campaign but Bush knew? You think there is no way a poll worker, disgruntled technician or whomever couldn't have discovered it? That's what I don't get. Most conspiracies are weak because they lack human testimony and are based on possibilities. I guess it is possible that the Democrats attempted to rig the results to make it look like the Reps were trying to rig it, right? How silly is that? Just about as silly as the rest of this.

There is no doubt that there are problems with voting in every election. There is no doubt there were problems in this election. However, it is called human error, and is not some willful conspiracy. We DO need a better standard and practices.

BTW, Kerry lost -- get over it.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Mill
Anyone that posts or buys into the theories from DU is nothing more than a lunatic. That goes for the "fixing" of the election, or to how they are illegally trying to intimidate companies, voters, and anyone who supported Bush. They are right, and if you get in their way they will hurt you. Illegal activities for them are just par for the course. They'd do anything and everything to get Bush out and Kerry in. All you have to do is read their forum(which I've been doing for about 9 months now) to see the desperation and lunacy over there.

Can anyone explain to me how these elections are "rigged" and not a single poll worker, county offiicial, etc has come out and told all? You are talking about hundreds of people colluding in an attempt to undermine the country.

I don't buy it. Anyone that does -- you are insane.

Ignorance. Pass the 7th grade and come back. Grown-ups get tired of your childish name calling.

Electronic voting machines are vulnerable to remote tampering. Locals would not have to be involved at all.


----------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980

Hah, that's hilarious.

E-Voting Machine Can Be Tampered At The Central Tabulator In Less Than 90 Seconds EASILY

Again, that still presupposes a massive conspiracy with many people.

Yep, that's true. It would be impossible for a handful of people to pull off something this big. They would have to be in a thousand places at once.

If only they had some way of putting all the tabulating servers in one room. Better yet, if only there was some way they could alter the servers without physically touching them. How could one do that? Long sticks? No, too many physical limitations.

How about electrical access? No, that would never work either. That would require wires running into every location with the servers. That would surely attract attention. And then someone would have to connect the wires to the server. There's no way anyone would do that for legitimate reasons. And then you'd need some way to MOdulate and DEModulate the electrical signals to control the servers. But even if you had all that, you'd still need exotic software to allow external electrical access.

Forgive me, I'm just talking crazy. What kind of insane, Star Trek technology would it take to access hundreds of servers from a central location? You're right, Mill. It's impossible. There is no conceivable way a handful of people could do anything like this. It would have to be a vast conspiracy of thousands of people individually touching each server. That's the only way.

:roll:

Nice try to create a huge strawman(which is exactly what you did). Again, it would behoove you to read nizkor.org's list of fallacies. You simply ignored what I said and attempted to show possible this was. I never said it wasn't possible. I said that anything of this nature would require more than 1, 10, or even 25 people to know about it. There is some technician or drone out there that would of had to have a part of it, and I'm SURE they don't pay that individual enough to offset money they could get by going public now do they?

Hey, Bow, what is a conspiracy? PEOPLE CONSPIRING. PEOPLE. That's my entire point. This wasn't just two guys who did it and have everything to lose if it gets out. If this was done it would require more than a handful of people to have knowledge. You are talking about rigging a national election. How hard is it to understand my position here? Are you going to just throw my logic out the window since it is a genuine question?

Here's a since you will just strawman me again or reply with a personal attack. How about attacking what I said instead? What has you so aghast about me saying it would take more than 2 people to rig an election? Have you ever worked at a poll? Do you work in IT? I ask, because my grandparents worked at polls for 20 something years, and I work in IT. I have no doubt that pulling off such a scheme would require more than just the Diebold machines. You think if it was done that no one in the campaign but Bush knew? You think there is no way a poll worker, disgruntled technician or whomever couldn't have discovered it? That's what I don't get. Most conspiracies are weak because they lack human testimony and are based on possibilities. I guess it is possible that the Democrats attempted to rig the results to make it look like the Reps were trying to rig it, right? How silly is that? Just about as silly as the rest of this.

There is no doubt that there are problems with voting in every election. There is no doubt there were problems in this election. However, it is called human error, and is not some willful conspiracy. We DO need a better standard and practices.

BTW, Kerry lost -- get over it.

Nah. I'm just going to point out that, like any good Bush acolyte, you're changing your story now that you've been cornered with reality.

First Mill: "You are talking about hundreds of people colluding in an attempt to undermine the country."

Next Mill: "Again, that still presupposes a massive conspiracy with many people."

Now Mill: "I said that anything of this nature would require more than 1, 10, or even 25 people to know about it."

Massive stockpiles of WMDs => Stockpiles of WMDs => WMDs => WMD programs => WMD program activities => WMD-related program activities => WMD aspirations


As far as "attacking what [you] said" is concerned, what you said is, at best, completely ignorant of technology in general and the gaping holes in the e-voting systems in particular. At worst, it is yet another intentional partisan diversion, designed to deflect attention from your scoundrel in the White House. Either way, your posts detract from this thread.

Current U.S. e-voting systems in general, the Diebold machines in particular, are a stolen election waiting to happen. That has been conclusively demonstrated multiple times. It does not take your "massive conspiracy". A few savvy or connected people can do it. The open question is whether this did happen in 2004.