Core i7 wake up call: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T BE overclocked to 6.29GHz!!

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BenchZowner

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
380
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ive tried to boot up from 1.7v sticks.. and others on the forum as well.

the onnly way i could post was with oem's which would go down to 1.5v

but all my older performance ddr3 onnly ended up as ex pensive paperweights..

i know all ddr3 now comes in the lower voltage... however there are still high voltage ddr3.

and u knnow am3 never has compatability issues with any ddr3 :p

3 LGA1366 X58 motherboards:
eVGA X58 Classified E760
Foxconn BloodRage
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5

2 LGA1156 P55 motherboards:
Asus Maximus III Extreme
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD7

Old DDR3 memory kits:
CellShock DDR3-1800 8-7-6-21 1.7V-1.9V - Micron D9GTR chips
Corsair Dominator PC3-14400 TWIN3X2048-1800C7DF DDR3-1800 7-7-7-20 2.0V - Micron D9GTR chips
CSX Diablo DDR3-2000 9-9-9-24 1.9V - Micron D9GTR chips
SuperTalent DDR3-1866 8-8-8-24 ( W1866UX2G8 ) - Micron D9GTR chips

All of them boot and work just fine on any of the motherboards mentioned above.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
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But if you are swapping various CPUs on socket LGA1156, you are keeping all of your other components constant. Legion Hardware clearly shows that with increased cpu clock speed, minimum framerates increase. I also never said minimums are only affected by CPU speed (of course GPU speed affects them as well).

If you are running a benchmark of a game, you aren't going to start FRAPS at the beginning of you loading the game either, or include cut scenes to scew your results. This approach would eliminate situations of 0 fps in less than useful real world scenarios you described (such as loading a screen, or a cut scene where no gameplay actually occurs). So you can plot a section of a benchmark demo over a graph and see how minimums affect gameplay. This is exactly what HardOCP does. Average framerates are often unable to capture excessive loads on a videocard and CPU where frames tank and your game chops.
I stated it before, and I'll state it again. Minimum FPS is a poor measurement of how a CPU actually performs. It is too unreliable. Average with lower graphical settings produces easier to reproduce results that give a better measurement of how a CPU will perform during droops then minimum could ever hope to.

Imagine for a moment that you have two cpus that you just benchmarked. one has a minimum of 18, the other of 20. Which would you say is faster? The fact of the matter is, you can't, with any confidence conclude that either is faster because far too many variables enter into play when picking a single point as the measurement standard. Maybe the OS picked an in-opportune time to switch threads, maybe the cache was aligned just right for that scene, who knows, there are literally thousands of variable that go on even when the game is the seemingly only running thing.

If your system is GPU bottlenecked, then your average is equally a worthless measure of how fast the CPU is (a fact you seem ok with.) You have to adjust settings until your CPU becomes the limiting factor and measure the average then. That will give an acurate report of which CPU is faster. It will have multiple points of measurement, something minimum FPS can't do.

I've done a lot of code benchmarking (profiling to be exact) and you can bet your buttons that I NEVER take just one measurement. It is always an average of 100->1000 (depending on the codes execution time.) With the exact same piece of code, I have almost never seen the same benchmark results, and this is with fairly small chucks of code running on the same machine. If you want, I can quickly code this up for you to prove my point.

A single measurement (Which is what minimum FPS is) is an unreliable performance metric.

Tell you what, load Dirt 2 gamedemo and run any level you want with 8AA, 4AA and 2AA on your videocard. You will see your avg frames will be hardly affected compared to minimums which would be cut by 50% if not more. Try playing Dirt 2 with 8AA vs. 2AA now and you'll see if you have an insufficient videocard, the 3x 0.1 millisecond instances where frames drop to 30fps will be choppy as hell, but you'll still get great 50+fps averages. In contrast with 2AA, you will still get 60+ fps average but 48 fps minimums! That's what I am saying. Just like loading a videocard affects minimum framerates, loading a cpu also affects minimum framerates. Not considering minimum framerates does not capture AT ALL what I am going to experience playing a game in the real world.
Considering minimum FPS is an exercise of futility which no more reflects what gameplay will be like then if you where to do a synthetic benchmark using 1990's benchmarking software. There aren't minimums, there is a minimum, singular. One measurement does not reflect reality no matter how you set up your benchmark.

*Trusted* - by who? is there an international committee that they are a part of? That's too ambiguous.
Just because most gaming websites don't use minimum framerates in their benchmarks, doesn't make it the right methodology. 50 years ago, many disputed the harmful effects of Mercury and cigarettes. Those were "trusted" sources. Independent thinking doesn't simply accept the status quo as such.
Trusted by everyone using this forum. Trusted, meaning it isn't some random name I pulled out of my butt to prove a point. These are websites that people other then myself have heard about and used. If I've never heard of a website, my first reaction is to not trust it. Only after seeing multiple references to said website do I trust it.

Just think about it for yourself, imagine you are a racecar cariver moving at 300km/h over a 10 km straightaway. Over 3x 300 meter sections you would completely lose engine power. Over the 10 kms, those 600 meters of loss of power will hardly affect avg. speed. However, you would be frustrated I would presume? That's 3 instances of minimum framerates of say 15fps, playing a game at constant 60fps. I guess it comes down to then how susceptible a gamer is to choppiness in gameplay.
And here is where your antidote is broken. Minimum doesn't report how often it dips, at all. The real situation is more like, your race car is driving along, there is a hickup which causes its output to drop very low. That hickup may not happen again for the rest of the race, yet you want to look at that single hickup and say "Oh, the race car must always slow down to that hickup speed. We can't use it." Yet if you race it again, the hickup may never happen again, or be to infrequent to be noticeable. Yet, just because it happens you would trash the engine and say that it is worthless.

Minimum FPS says nothing about the frequency of droops in the game
 

BenchZowner

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
380
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0
633584945109156823-trolling.jpg
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,034
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All of them boot and work just fine on any of the motherboards mentioned above.

Ok i realized this is the best way to talk to ya.

IMG_0107.jpg


Remember that little sticker over the Ram sockets because of the high voltage DDR3's that wouldnt work..

:D


Since im in front of my computer i can now bring out pictures.

The point is you CANT POST with a 1.7v DDR3.
Unless that DDR3 has a default startup voltage of 1.5-1.6

You cant get into bios to up the voltage, because the board just wont post.
OK im sorry i worded my Ram wrong, and i see i offended some of you on that comment.

I will appologize on that comment. A better term should of been higher voltage DDR3, and not AMD DDR3.
As i said i call it AMD DDR3, because only AMD's are using it right now minus unfortunate people who went on P5E series platform which was also a DDR3 775 board.

But all LGA1136 + 1156 to my knowledge had issues posting on old high voltage DDR3 ram.

3 LGA1366 X58 motherboards:
eVGA X58 Classified E760
Foxconn BloodRage
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5

Ive tried on the:

P6T-Dlx
R2E
eVGA E758

After that i ended up ditching those DDR3... havent touched it since.
 
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BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
10,568
138
106
Because clarkdale paints a picture how Phenom II x6 is going to compare to i7 860 for instance. Again. You rather compare a $110 processor with a $180 processor. 2 intel core vs 4 AMD core CPU's. I understand i3 is slightly slower than Phenom when comparing @ stock but clock for clock it's very close even in quad optimized games but when overclocked on both ends i3 beats it in more games than a phenom x4. If an i3 with 100% less core is competitive with AMD's best at the moment what makes you think AMD's 6 core CPU is going to compare with intel's i7 4 core with only 50% less core?

dirt2-oc.gif

Games are not made to stress CPU's, they're made to RUN on cpu's that are available. Not everyone has a top of the line quad core much like yourself so be happy developers are thinking with you in mind. Soon enough that i3 you keep standing up for will fall to the wayside due to the fact that you lack a sufficient core count.

Not to say this will happen any time soon, but you really are comparing the fact that games aren't made to bring systems to their knees to the fact that they run about the same on hardware that clearly has an advantage in almost all other area's of computing with six cores. Games are made to be played on a wide range of hardware at acceptable frame rates which is why there is little variation at the top end of frame rates.

The fact that gaming was brought up in a thread about a six core part boggles my mind. There simply aren't many games that take full advantage of even four cores, yet you're essentially using poorly threaded apps to push your case.

It's widely known that games prefer clock speed to core count at the moment and nothing has changed in that department. Benching a modern processor with *JUST* enough cores for gaming at clock speeds of 700 to 800mhz greater than the AMD part you're comparing it to makes absolutely no sense, either. We know for a fact that IPC is higher on the i series CPU so it all adds up.
 

BenchZowner

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
380
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Remember that little sticker over the Ram sockets because of the high voltage DDR3's that wouldnt work..

That sticker was a warning against using RAM voltages over 1.65V
It was what Intel advised the motherboard manufacturers to say, mainly due to the deaths of the first Nehalem E.S. revisions that were quite a bit fragile when running high RAM voltages or high Vtt voltages.

The point is you CANT POST with a 1.7v DDR3.

You can post just fine, I don't know why you insist on something that you're obviously wrong and there are people with proof around.

Why ? Because there's something called SPD and if the RAM manufacturer follows the JEDEC standards and recommendations, there's always a very loose ( timing-wise ) profile like DDR3-800 8-8-8-25 or DDR3-1066 9-9-9-28, and at those frequencies/timings every DDR3 chip will POST and work just fine, even the very first DDR3 engineering samples could work at that voltage & frequency/timings.

But all LGA1136 + 1156 to my knowledge had issues posting on old high voltage DDR3 ram.

Well, I can't find any simpler way to get the message across except "You're wrong" :) [ no offense ]
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,034
3,514
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You can post just fine, I don't know why you insist on something that you're obviously wrong and there are people with proof around.

Well i guess its a toss of a coin then.

Because u can also do a search in this forum and find out people from earily i7 builds who had post issues because of ram.

I understand what your saying.. 1600mhz ram can be run at 1066 at lower voltage, because 1600 is originally 1066 ram overclocked.

However there are cases of older ram which required the 1.7v to start up.

Like these for example:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104136

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227316
 
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busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
Why are people talking about intel memory issues and minimum frame rates?
The purpose of this thread has been defeated.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,034
3,514
126
Why are people talking about intel memory issues and minimum frame rates?
The purpose of this thread has been defeated.

question regrading type of memory was asked in an early post.
So i said, not all DDR3 can be used on an i7 vs an AMD where its open to any DDR3.
Then someone came in and called shins... so im covering my foot steps so to speak.

Bench, unless the vendors fixed this in a bios update that im aware of, this still applies.
Your gonna have to show me a link or even picture of someone who has there system up using non micron D9's.

Reason i say that is because my OEM's were microns which worked.
I believe samsung IC's might have been another vendor who worked.

For me...
OCZ didnt work, and Kingstons didnt work for some wierd reason either, nor did the patriots i also have.


If this doesnt apply anymore and im wrong, then its new info to me, and i can just toss it in the can.
If you have any more links of that debunking post as well, i'll also be interested in that too.
 
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BenchZowner

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
380
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0
It doesn't apply with most of the DIMMs out there.
Asus had some ridiculous memory compatibility issues with their BIOSes up until now ( concerning the P6T series [ P6T, P6T v2, P6T Deluxe, workstation, etc ] and the Rampage II Extreme & Rampage II Gene, and the P6T6 WS Revolution as well ), not only regarding the "high voltage" DDR3 but with a lot of low voltage DDR3 as well.

If you need more proof, I guess I can take a few videos for you tomorrow with various memory kits using Micron D9GTR, Quimonda 10F, Samsung HCF8 and Elpida BABG.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Why are people talking about intel memory issues and minimum frame rates?
The purpose of this thread has been defeated.

The point is for those who use multiple cores for video/processing work, Thuban will be a huge upgrade. But for everyone else who say plays videogames, adding extra cores to PII architecture still won't make it any faster than Core i7.

Then, we started to argue about using minimum frame rates to gauge gaming performance between cpus vs. average frames to highlight that IPC > multiple cores for games. We got sidetracked by arguing what measurement convention is better to test CPU speeds (min vs. avg frames). Sorry for the confusion.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Considering minimum FPS is an exercise of futility which no more reflects what gameplay will be like then if you where to do a synthetic benchmark using 1990's benchmarking software.

Minimum FPS says nothing about the frequency of droops in the game

Ok, then why are minimum framerates consistently increasing in the Legion Hardware benchmarks with increased clock speed? Don't you think they tested their benchmarks in a way that they could recreate consistent results? In fact, it happens for every different architecture of CPUs from Core i3s, to C2Q, to Core i7 to Phenom II X4. I guess those numbers are 'random', 'not measurable', 'irrelevant' for real world?

Here is a perfect example of where your avg. frame rate logic fails (since according to you if you can't recreate minimum framerates in some benchmark, those minimums are worthless in real life....):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu_3.html
Athlon XP 3000+ = 64.9 avg
Pentium 4 3.0ghz = 74.6 avg
Perfectly smooth gameplay in Doom 3 demo

Now what happened in the real world?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu_5.html
Athlon XP 3000+ = 19.2 fps mins
Pentium 4 3.0ghz = 30 fps mins

So you are saying we should just ignore minimum framerates because they have nothing to do with real gameplay smoothness. :rolleyes: It was shown 6 years ago that minimum frame rates matter in gaming, but you still choose to ignore it. I wonder what GTX480 owners say about their superior 8AA performance which results in way better minimum framerates than 5870 owners...I guess those advantages are "irrelevant" as well.

If you want to look at the situations where the game falls below 30fps, just plot fraps results.
 
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busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
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The point is for those who use multiple cores for video/processing work, Thuban will be a huge upgrade. But for everyone else who say plays videogames, adding extra cores to PII architecture still won't make it any faster than Core i7.

I completely agree. Other than the turbo feature and maybe better efficiency, when compared to deneb, Thuban doesn't offer much unless it has good overclocking potential.

Then, we started to argue about using minimum frame rates to gauge gaming performance between cpus vs. average frames to highlight that IPC > multiple cores for games. We got sidetracked by arguing what measurement convention is better to test CPU speeds (min vs. avg frames). Sorry for the confusion.

This issue has been dealt in other threads which, ironically, has been started by you.
You don't have to apologize to me it is nothing personal. Its just that many, myself included, are eager to know what these new chips offer as they are a cheap upgrade for most who are already on AM2+/AM3 platform. As we are 'technologically inclined' it feels good to get some heads up like this. I know it doesn't matter to the general population but it matters to me, that is the reason I follow these forums.

Its all right for us to go out of topic once in a while but prolonging an out of topic issue, starting flame wars feels like playing a broken record.
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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You need 4 cores at the moment at least starting to pickup where dual core was at it's infancy of being mainstream optimized. Even in quad optimized games i3 easily keep paces with AMD's best quad.

I'm just trying to paint a picture here comparing a i7 860 or i7 930 vs AMD hex. i3 hyperthreading does help in many apps to speed things along. So does i7 when comparing it to i5 750 in these apps at the same clock speed.

Why you quoted me I don't know? You failed to address, or acknowledge anything in my post.

You are obviously very happy with your i3. Good for you. Play your games and enjoy yourself. I do 3D modeling and rendering, mostly. Your processor would suck at that job. A 6 core Thuban though @ $300.00 might be just the processor for me. It should be an outstanding value for my purposes. I'll have to see reviews before I can tell for sure though.

There are other considerations too. I have a C2Q at the moment. I'm peeved that if I want to upgrade I have to buy a new mobo, RAM, and processor. If I had gone AMD AM3 instead all I'd have to do is buy a Thuban. Down the road when BD comes out, if it proves to be a better value, to upgrade I just buy a new processor again. X58 is being retired in '11, so if I upgrade now to an i7, when the next latest and greatest comes from Intel I'll need a new mobo and possibly RAM again. I do this as a hobby. I don't want to spend in the neighborhood of $1000, or possibly more, every time to upgrade.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Well gee I should hope so! Cinebench is one thing that WILL use those extra physical cores.

In any case this is good news when comparing dollars to flops. This will entice Intel to put out the "D0" equivalent of a Gulftown - six cores at 2.6-2.8 for $299. Bump up BCLK to 200MHz and you've got a system that will slap anything around. Sound familiar?

I do enjoy unlocked multipliers enough to buy EE chips. I was NOT thrilled that a $300 W3520 beat all of my 975EEs in top speed, however. But that's just the nature of playing the silicon lottery. Some people blow $10k a month in lottery tickets/going to the racetrack/casino etc. I like to buy chips. :D Maybe one day I will take the old ones and paint rings on them and make a poker set. Heck why even paint them at all? Any real geek knows the denomination! :biggrin:

AMD can always answer with 12 cores.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Why you quoted me I don't know? You failed to address, or acknowledge anything in my post.

You are obviously very happy with your i3. Good for you. Play your games and enjoy yourself. I do 3D modeling and rendering, mostly. Your processor would suck at that job. A 6 core Thuban though @ $300.00 might be just the processor for me. It should be an outstanding value for my purposes. I'll have to see reviews before I can tell for sure though.

Because you replied to my post maybe? Failed to address that you don't need 6 cores to play games. Okay I replied you needed 4 cores or at least with 4 threads.

Please don't try to tell me tell me what I'm happy with and what I do with my computer. This thread is about thuban and how it will perform against intel's rivals. I only mentioned the i3 because it painted a picture between thuban and i7.
 
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Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Well i guess its a toss of a coin then.

Because u can also do a search in this forum and find out people from earily i7 builds who had post issues because of ram.

I understand what your saying.. 1600mhz ram can be run at 1066 at lower voltage, because 1600 is originally 1066 ram overclocked.

However there are cases of older ram which required the 1.7v to start up.

Like these for example:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104136

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227316

So basically you're saying that AMD accepts more types of ram and Intel accepts less and now you're blaming AMD? What kind of logic is that :eek:?
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
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Games are not made to stress CPU's, they're made to RUN on cpu's that are available. Not everyone has a top of the line quad core much like yourself so be happy developers are thinking with you in mind. Soon enough that i3 you keep standing up for will fall to the wayside due to the fact that you lack a sufficient core count.

What are you smoking? Games stress CPU. ^_^

i3 is good for games. Eats less watts and have good enough performance an average joe does with his computer.

So tell me when will the i3 fall due to core count? Oh wait that's what hyperthreading is for. :hmm:


Not to say this will happen any time soon, but you really are comparing the fact that games aren't made to bring systems to their knees to the fact that they run about the same on hardware that clearly has an advantage in almost all other area's of computing with six cores. Games are made to be played on a wide range of hardware at acceptable frame rates which is why there is little variation at the top end of frame rates.

The fact that gaming was brought up in a thread about a six core part boggles my mind. There simply aren't many games that take full advantage of even four cores, yet you're essentially using poorly threaded apps to push your case.

I don't understand what you are complaining about. Some of you say i3 sucks for gaming but when I show you guys examples of i3 reigning over anything AMD has to offer i3 will fall flat because it doesn't have 4 cores. Minimum frames doesn't matter. Average frame rates don't matter and so on.


It's widely known that games prefer clock speed to core count at the moment and nothing has changed in that department. Benching a modern processor with *JUST* enough cores for gaming at clock speeds of 700 to 800mhz greater than the AMD part you're comparing it to makes absolutely no sense, either. We know for a fact that IPC is higher on the i series CPU so it all adds up.
Games are changing to core count and not just clock speeds. There are plenty of examples. no? Bad Company 2, GTA 4, Arma 2, Dragon Age, and so on.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
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I stated it before, and I'll state it again. Minimum FPS is a poor measurement of how a CPU actually performs. It is too unreliable. Average with lower graphical settings produces easier to reproduce results that give a better measurement of how a CPU will perform during droops then minimum could ever hope to.

Is this why faster CPU's have higher minimum frame rates? Come on of course minimum frame rates matter and don't you think these hardware sites that measure minimum frame rates took precaution when recording these minimum frame rates? You keep posting only to your agenda when hard facts are there before your eyes. :thumbsdown:
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Because you replied to my post maybe? Failed to address that you don't need 6 cores to play games. Okay I replied you needed cores or at least with 4 threads.

Please don't try to tell me tell me what I'm happy with and what I do with my computer. This thread is about thuban and how it will perform against intel's rivals. I only mentioned the i3 because it painted a picture between thuban and i7.

Don't tell you what you're happy with? LOL Fine. As far as telling you what you do with your computer goes, you are the one who is basing your entire argument on fps in games.

Don't confuse cores with threads, though. As much as Intel would like you to believe they are the same they aren't. Threads help improve performance, in most instances, no doubt. They don't improve performance to the same level a extra cores though, even in the best of circumstances. The main contributer to your i3's performance isn't hyperthreading, it's the +4GHz clocks.

Let me ask you this then. Do you think an i3 w/hyperthreading would be superior to a 6 core CPU for 3D rendering? Assuming even remotely similar clocks, of course.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
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Don't tell you what you're happy with? LOL Fine. As far as telling you what you do with your computer goes, you are the one who is basing your entire argument on fps in games.

Don't confuse cores with threads, though. As much as Intel would like you to believe they are the same they aren't. Threads help improve performance, in most instances, no doubt. They don't improve performance to the same level a extra cores though, even in the best of circumstances. The main contributer to your i3's performance isn't hyperthreading, it's the +4GHz clocks.

Let me ask you this then. Do you think an i3 w/hyperthreading would be superior to a 6 core CPU for 3D rendering? Assuming even remotely similar clocks, of course.

I'm telling you don't know what I do with my computer. You trying to me to play games and enjoy while you 3D model is ignorance.

I'm basing my entire argument on fps in games? How so? You guys just don't want to hear i3 is good as phenom x4 for gaming. When I give examples you guys don't want to hear it and strawman to 3D rendering and so on which I never said i3 is better than phenom x4. :hmm:
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
This is a long thread. Did I miss somewhere you alluded to references other than games? If so, I'm sorry. Trust me though, I'm not an ignorant person.

3D rendering isn't intended as a strawman. It's an example of an application that will actually use all 6 cores. There are other applications as well. Games just isn't one of them. That's my point. This is about the value of a $300.00 6 core processor. Not about what applications it doesn't matter with.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
I'm telling you don't know what I do with my computer. You trying to me to play games and enjoy while you 3D model is ignorance.

I'm basing my entire argument on fps in games? How so? You guys just don't want to hear i3 is good as phenom x4 for gaming. When I give examples you guys don't want to hear it and strawman to 3D rendering and so on which I never said i3 is better than phenom x4. :hmm:

i3 is only as good in gaming as an x4 ONLY because a game that makes good use of a quad core does not exist. When you find a game that runs close to 100% faster on a Core 2 Quad over a Core 2 Duo, then let us know. That same game will run like trash on a Core i3 when compared to a Phenom II X4. This is a fact.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
i3 is only as good in gaming as an x4 ONLY because a game that makes good use of a quad core does not exist. When you find a game that runs close to 100% faster on a Core 2 Quad over a Core 2 Duo, then let us know. That same game will run like trash on a Core i3 when compared to a Phenom II X4. This is a fact.

let me know when that day comes. ^_^

people don't buy processors so they can have better performance in the future. By that time I would have upgraded and I'm sure others would too. Anyway I bought my i3 for $85 shipped which was a good deal and just as good as x4 cpu in many benchmarks and it was nothing more than a stop gap until I get a i7 860.
 
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