Contractor screwed up my patio installation - what should I do?

[alkemyst]

Shit, sounds like you hired a CL contractor.

Licensed and Insured and a Warranty don't go too far.

I'd start with telling them you are unhappy, which should have been right when the pad was finished and you halting the project.

Now there is a lot more variables they have to redo.

 

[slugg]

If he has a surety bond, which it sounds like he does, and its with a real company. The OP may just end up dealing with the surety and not with the contractor.

Not sure what he meant by "insured" but usually it means you have a surety. I understand that they also would not like having to pay, but contractor's probably don't want to be paying for surety's that aren't there to deliver on what their premiums are supposed to cover.

He says he doesn't have this. Or maybe he's bluffing? Or ignorant? His contract says his company is bonded and insured, as does public record.



So I contacted American Express and they told me that they are ready to dispute the charge if I decide to, and that unsatisfactory workmanship in rendered services is definitely covered and disputable. What I'm afraid of is doing the dispute, winning, and now the guy tries to sue me.

I had another contractor come out and assess the situation. He says that if I'm willing to lose about 1 to 1.5 inches of ceiling height (i.e. build the ground up), then he can install pavers and make the surface completely flat, but still with a gentle grade (as recommended). He's still working on the quote and will get back to me tomorrow, but the ballpark he gave me just barely exceeds my to-be-disputed amount with AmEx. At that point, with some pavers, I wouldn't mind paying the difference.

Should I dispute the charge?

 

[alkemyst]

He says he doesn't have this. Or maybe he's bluffing? Or ignorant? His contract says his company is bonded and insured, as does public record.



So I contacted American Express and they told me that they are ready to dispute the charge if I decide to, and that unsatisfactory workmanship in rendered services is definitely covered and disputable. What I'm afraid of is doing the dispute, winning, and now the guy tries to sue me.

I had another contractor come out and assess the situation. He says that if I'm willing to lose about 1 to 1.5 inches of ceiling height (i.e. build the ground up), then he can install pavers and make the surface completely flat, but still with a gentle grade (as recommended). He's still working on the quote and will get back to me tomorrow, but the ballpark he gave me just barely exceeds my to-be-disputed amount with AmEx. At that point, with some pavers, I wouldn't mind paying the difference.

Should I dispute the charge?

You need to seriously have a heart to heart with your original contractor.

Lay it on the line that you are not satisfied at all and it's (we haven't seen the work yet so this is an assumption) subpar work.

Don't hire a new guy to fix the problem until you fix that problem with the first guy. Otherwise you are burying your evidence.

 

[slugg]

You need to seriously have a heart to heart with your original contractor.

Lay it on the line that you are not satisfied at all and it's (we haven't seen the work yet so this is an assumption) subpar work.

Don't hire a new guy to fix the problem until you fix that problem with the first guy. Otherwise you are burying your evidence.

Link to the Photobucket: link

I'll take more pictures tomorrow, when I have plenty of light again.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Curious, what made you choose this contractor? Was it a firm that has existed for years? Did you check references Etc..?

 

[Theb]

Link to the Photobucket: link

I'll take more pictures tomorrow, when I have plenty of light again.

That's a mess. Where did you find this guy?

 

[Ns1]

That's a mess. Where did you find this guy?

the Braille Institute

 

[slugg]

Curious, what made you choose this contractor? Was it a firm that has existed for years? Did you check references Etc..?

I Googled for days to find contractors. I took their license numbers, looked them up online, asked for portfolios, asked for references, etc. This guy has been in business with his father since the early 90s. Pictures of his prior projects looked great. I also showed up at a site while they were still constructing and it was stellar.

The actual enclosure (i.e. aluminum, roof, screening, etc) is immaculate.

 

[Jeff7]

Here is a link to a Photobucket album I made for it: http://s45.photobucket.com/user/sluggxp/library/Bad%20Concrete

^^ Pictures don't do it justice. It's worse than it looks like in the pics. It's kind of hard to portray it; I'm not much of a photographer.



I had a concrete repair specialist come over. He told me that this will be prohibitively expensive to fix, as far as having a "flat" slab is concerned. He did say that you definitely want to have it graded slightly, but that it should be consistent and not all deformed like my slab. His recommendation for the cheapest "repair" is to actually tile the area with large-format tiles, using special thinset that can be applied up to an inch thick. He said that with careful installation, this would be the cheapest way to mask the problem and have a decent solution. He did say that the entire slab will have to be ground down a bit and pressure washed to get the quick-crete and other contiminants off. He'll have a quote for me tomorrow... *sigh*

Good god.


I had hardly ever worked with concrete before putting in a short walkway at my parents' house. It looks far better than that. It's flat, for one. It's straight. And it's 4 years old and still has no cracks in it. I had the guidance of some Youtube videos and online how-tos.
That looks like the first attempts that I did in a summer-camp-style vo-tech thing back in early high school.


Was it bring-your-young-kids-to-work day? Is that one of them buried in there?




...and I just came to the photo of the door splattered with concrete.

 

[Hugo Drax]

I Googled for days to find contractors. I took their license numbers, looked them up online, asked for portfolios, asked for references, etc. This guy has been in business with his father since the early 90s. Pictures of his prior projects looked great. I also showed up at a site while they were still constructing and it was stellar.

The actual enclosure (i.e. aluminum, roof, screening, etc) is immaculate.

Did you contact the references? If he was in business since the 90s then I would definitely take it to court, sue for damages and punitive as well as court costs.

 

[alkemyst]

Yeah that's messed up...the blemishes they may try to blame on you. Too many people try to walk out on their patio/decks too early. The splatter is hard to avoid. They should have wiped it off the walls though.

The main issue is that bump is unacceptable and that is nothing you could have added to the job.

You put a typical patio table on top of it (single base) and that thing will rock back and forth all night in the wrong way.

This just seems like a bad situation to be in.

My fiancee just had her attorney file a Motion to Withdraw in her divorce. The guy wasn't prepared for the battle he was facing and simply doesn't want to lose the case. The suck part is even with the most the partner in the firm can do is I still owe $3500 and we had paid $1400 already. The bill was around $10k prior to the reduction and all the paperwork will get transferred to the new attorney and I have a guarantee no lien will be filed by the firm to capture the loss. I have known that partner since I was less than 10 years old.

 

[hardhat]

Hello slugg.

From the pictures, I see no evidence of expansion between the new slab and the house. Expansion is a material to be inserted between an existing structure and a new slab to allow for expanding and contracting throughout the seasons. It is usually thin foam pads. Without expansion, the slab will almost assuredly crack. You should ask the contractor if he used expansion. He may have misinstalled it, but having something is better than nothing.
The scuff marks aren't a big deal. However, he was very sloppy to let so much loose concrete splash on your door and walls. The curdling at the edge by the building is because the contractor didn't lift the broom up and reset it before pulling it back. This is seriously amateur work.
The slab is not anywhere near acceptably flat. If that is how it looks after he attempted to fix it, the contractor didn't know anything about how to set up, screed, and finish concrete. It is also very likely that he did not use the correct sealant or any sealant after installation.

That job is horrible. You should first ask the contractor very directly for his insurance information. I doubt he actually has insurance. If he won't give you that information then you will have to compel it from him using the legal system. You should also talk to the city and see what records they have on his license, the building permit, and any inspections carried out. Any decent building inspector would not approve that level of workmanship.

It is very likely that the original contractor won't be interested in any real remedy. Unfortunately, the cost to redo the project would be substantially more than the original cost, and you couldn't recover that amount in small claims court. If you aren't interested in a lawsuit then you will have to fix it the way it is, assuming an insurance claim isn't possible. I don't know how cancelling payment vs getting a lien would work.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Also all further communications should be through fax/certified letters in order to have documentation.

ie: your dissastisfaction with the poor work done and not to spec etc.. all documented. and also your requests for correction of the work done.

Everything has to be documented, records kept of all communications.

 

[HeXen]

Any pics?
Pouring concrete and smoothing it out isn't really hard.

 

[Red Squirrel]

When you paying that guy you picked up from the Home Depot parking lot to do your electric work starts a fire and burns down the block, you're "permits are just money grabs!" argument is bullshit. There is a reason things, within a municipality, must be built to code and inspected that they are done such. It is for the good of the morons who think they can do it themselves, and they can't.

That's what insurance is suppose to be for. Except insurance companies will always try to dodge things such as if there was no permits.

If you hire some random guy to do your electrical then it should be your own fault if he screwed up. Though in the case of a Home Depot installer I would hope HD would be nice enough to guarantee their work and take the blame and pay for damages. Read up and do it yourself and do it right, or hire someone who has a good reputation. Today's world is full of liability bullcrap and red tape because nobody wants to take the blame for their own mistakes. Everybody suffers because of it.

EDIT: Did not see the pics till now. That's not bad concrete as I suspected from the OP but that is a shoddy job. It looks like this is probably the guy's first time doing a job this big. Concrete is easy in principle but if you've never done it before it can be tricky. It looks like he's really not experienced. I'd definitly ask for my money back, have it broken up, and get a better contractor. A patch job wont work either, even with adhesive it will come off after some time.

Though, if you can't win, what I'd do in this situation is drill a bunch of holes, stick small pieces of rebar (angle them a bit for safety and for better hold) then put adhesive and self leveling concrete.


You could also call Mike Holmes. You'll get a new kitchen and basement out of the deal too. :biggrin:

 

[bradley]

Wow, that's some amazingly shitty work. Seriously! Don't know if I've ever seen work that bad. Is this contractor even licensed, insured or bonded?

I would write a brief yet pointed review on the ready for Angie's List. Let the contractor respond to the review first. Inform him that you will also be sending the letter to other state agencies as well, including the licensing board. Again, I doubt this hack is even licensed.

 

[Hugo Drax]

yeah but instead of talk. it should be put in writing. there needs to be a chain of documents indicating attempts to communicate with the contractor in order to correct things, and the best way for the initial request should be certified letter as well.

At this point he will notice things are getting serious and it would help compel him to correct the problem

Talk is cheap at this point.

Telegrams work real nicely as well.

http://www.itelegram.com/telegram/send.asp?recCountry=US&telegram=USA

 

[MongGrel]

And the age old question of "Where is Jimmy Hoffa buried?" has been answered.

:biggrin:

 

[Humpy]

OP you aren't the first to have a problem like this. Accept that you are a dumbass and hired the wrong guy, then move on.

Don't settle for any repairs or coverups. Hopefully the contract had a scope of work that describes what you were paying for. Even if it is vague there are widely accepted standards (ex. ACI's Manual of Concrete Practice) that will make it easy to demonstrate how poorly your work was done. You want the structure to be carefully disassembled, the slab to be removed and replaced correctly, and the structure reassembled at no additional cost to you.

Communicate in writing with the contractor until he indicates that he refuses to perform the work as stated in the contract. Typically he gets one chance to correct the problem. It sucks but from my understanding it is expected by the courts should it ever get to that point. If you have to pay more to have someone else correct the problem you can attempt to recover that amount.

Go ahead with the charge back with AMEX while you are waiting.

Start the contractor complaint process in FL that you can begin online while you are waiting.

Document everything as if you were preparing for court. Depending on your situation you probably are.

If it is not illegal maybe audio record all of your conversations with the A-hole. Don't let him bully you.

 

[DrPizza]

Here is a link to a Photobucket album I made for it: http://s45.photobucket.com/user/sluggxp/library/Bad Concrete

^^ Pictures don't do it justice. It's worse than it looks like in the pics. It's kind of hard to portray it; I'm not much of a photographer.

Holy shit! I read the OP and was reading through the thread, thinking "anal retentive first world problems." That job was done by someone without the proper tools, and no knowledge on how to use what tools they did have. Absolutely unacceptable.

Possible repair solution: maybe put down a tiled surface, something like 12x12 tiles, put down in thinset. Generally before tiling, you want a level surface. I've put in a couple of tile floors; I think it's beyond my skills to get that floor fixed so that it looks good and the new floor surface is level (or rather, done with a proper slope for drainage.) But, I think it's possible, and that would be a hell of a lot less expensive than tearing the whole thing apart to replace the slab.

Then again, of course, who knows if the correct site prep was done before pouring the slab, etc. It *could* lead to potential problems down the road, or maybe it won't. It's a crap shoot.

But, if the actual contractor's work is good, and it's just a matter of the sub-contractor's work on the slab, then perhaps the contractor would be willing to do this sort of a repair for you. And, perhaps as a good gesture, you could offer to pay for the materials to make such a repair (particularly since it's an upgrade for the flooring surface) - and the contractor provide the labor to DO IT RIGHT. You can get tile that would do the job for about $1-2 per square foot at the box stores. (I'm not sure the stuff they sell is appropriate for that type of application; no clue.) Yeah, it really sucks donkey balls to have to bite the bullet and offer up a couple hundred extra, but that's probably the least stressful and most likely method to lead to a resolution.

The time and costs to go to court.. that's, of course, the other direction you can go - and if you plan on going that route, immediately dispute the AmEx.

 

[rudeguy]

I Googled for days to find contractors. I took their license numbers, looked them up online, asked for portfolios, asked for references, etc. This guy has been in business with his father since the early 90s. Pictures of his prior projects looked great. I also showed up at a site while they were still constructing and it was stellar.



The actual enclosure (i.e. aluminum, roof, screening, etc) is immaculate.

Any chance of you convincing him to bitch slap the cement guys into redoing it?

 

[Humpy]

Then again, of course, who knows if the correct site prep was done before pouring the slab, etc. It *could* lead to potential problems down the road, or maybe it won't. It's a crap shoot.

That's the thing, the guy used a tree branch and a dead rat to finish off the slab. There is little evidence to show that anything else was done right either.

 

[ZaneNBK]

Any chance of you convincing him to bitch slap the cement guys into redoing it?

I wouldn't want anyone that screwed it up that badly to be attempting it again. If he could get a different subcontractor to do it, or do it himself it might be worth it.

Negotiating an upgrade to tile, as someone else suggested, where you only pay for the cost of materials, might be the best way to go and might get the contractor to be less of an ass. However, if you've shown him the site with the level demonstration or shown him these pictures and he's not making an effort to make it right then he's a dishonest ass anyway and the legal route might be your only solution.

If you do a chargeback he could put a lien on your house and you'd have to go to court to settle that anyway most likely. The safest way would probably go to small claims court with pictures of the damage and an estimate to fix it (say the tile route). Small claims court is cheap and doesn't require a lawyer (think Judge Judy) and in most places you can get up to $5,000 rewarded to you. Not sure if that's more or less than the 30% but is probably the safest route and should protect you from him trying to put a lien on the house. Make sure you save all signed contracts and a copy of the cashed check and paperwork from the court case if you go that route.

Thought about adding on to my house but contractor horror stories have scared me away from doing that. Would rather switch houses than deal with that shit.

 

[highland145]

That's the thing, the guy used a tree branch and a dead rat to finish off the slab. There is little evidence to show that anything else was done right either.

:biggrin:



Check with the state licensing board. Might be a lever. Bro had a large amount of concrete poured...poorly...went after the guy's state license. Still not resolved, atm.

 

[momeNt]

You should do everybody locally a favor and make sure people know about it through yelp.

If this guy showed you immaculate work, and gave good references, they must have been cherry picked and not representative of overall work.

If someone is just learning how to screed, float, and broom finish concrete, that is fine, but you have someone experienced there to fix the mistakes. Concrete isn't like super glue. It has a lot of working time. To have so many areas that are so poorly done, is really incredible. Maybe the experienced one called in sick?