Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[eikelbijter]

What I don't get, is, given I've known people move to the Netherlands entirely because of the appeal of their sensible approach to transport infrastructure, what kind of Dutchman chooses to live in LA - possibly the most car-centric, active-travel-hostile city in the world?

Did you have to go through some sort of formal ceremony where they confiscate your bicycle clips and break your bicycle pump over their knee?

Nice try. As a matter of fact I ride my bike everyday. I keep myself in good shape. I don't tell fat people we're gonna gas them if they don't lose weight though. I don't suggest we shouldn't cover their medical costs if they have a stroke, because you know, their own stupidity.

I'll tell you what kind: a guy who chose to give up a diploma in electrical engineering from TU Delft to pursue a career in music at the highest level, something virtually impossible in his beloved homeland. I wouldn't live here if it weren't for that; wouldn't be in a place where someone who doesn't know you or anything you've accomplished to tell you he has a pair of bootstraps for ya! LA is closer to a banana republic, with even my good neighborhood FILLED with crackheads homeless people. Families with kids living in tents underneath the overpasses and....

Listen, I've had a wonderful career, I'm very thankful for what this country has given me, I've made some amazing friends for life. Was a part of TWO records in the 2020 year end top 10 Billboard contemporary Jazz albums of the year; got nominated for a Grammy , worked, and are now continuing to work with some of my favorite musicians in the world. I'm not some MAGA troll, no matter how much you guys want to put me in that box.

 

[cytg111]

Something else to think about:

https://imgur.com/a/lnGJmEI

Last gift of Trump….

 

[eikelbijter]

No no no. It will never be over. Period. .

How would you define "over"? When, in your opinion, would it be ok to go back to normal? Don't say "when everybody is vaccinated" because that is not the question. What needs to be happening, or not happening in hospitals, in society before you think we can lift all restrictions and live like we did before Covid?

 

[Meghan54]

So, despite all the pages of information you sought in order to learn, you learned nothing.

Never was his reason or purpose.

 

[eikelbijter]

Never was his reason or purpose.

It most certainly was, it always is. And it always will be.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How would you define "over"? When, in your opinion, would it be ok to go back to normal? Don't say "when everybody is vaccinated" because that is not the question. What needs to be happening, or not happening in hospitals, in society before you think we can lift all restrictions and live like we did before Covid?

We likely won't, unless we simply accept that a shitload of people dying every year is 'normal'. I'd frankly prefer things didn't go back to how it was before COVID, it fucking sucked.

 

[Muse]

How would you define "over"? When, in your opinion, would it be ok to go back to normal? Don't say "when everybody is vaccinated" because that is not the question. What needs to be happening, or not happening in hospitals, in society before you think we can lift all restrictions and live like we did before Covid?

Are you vaccinated?

 

[eikelbijter]

We likely won't, unless we simply accept that a shitload of people dying every year is 'normal'. I'd frankly prefer things didn't go back to how it was before COVID, it fucking sucked.

Now THAT is and interesting point of view. First off you realize that a "shitload" of people die every year of MANY things, right? 16K under 20 die in the US every year in a non-car accident! With an IFR of 1 in 33000, even if all in the age group got Covid, that's 2500 or so.

You're suggesting that Covid 19 will keep on and on, but that is not what any doctor says. As a matter of fact, a few pages of posts ago I was scolded for saying that some people suggest this will never end.

So let me ask you this: there's GOT to be a concrete number of deaths at which you'd consider this to be such a small threat that we should just live with it. If less than 10 people in the US die from Covid? Less than 5? 10 a week?

Again, I'm not trolling. When we implement sweeping regulations and mandates, there has to be a clearly defined way out.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Now THAT is and interesting point of view. First off you realize that a "shitload" of people die every year of MANY things, right? 16K under 20 die in the US every year in a non-car accident! With an IFR of 1 in 33000, even if all in the age group got Covid, that's 2500 or so.

You're suggesting that Covid 19 will keep on and on, but that is not what any doctor says. As a matter of fact, a few pages of posts ago I was scolded for saying that some people suggest this will never end.

So let me ask you this: there's GOT to be a concrete number of deaths at which you'd consider this to be such a small threat that we should just live with it. If less than 10 people in the US die from Covid? Less than 5? 10 a week?

Again, I'm not trolling. When we implement sweeping regulations and mandates, there has to be a clearly defined way out.

Well fuck man, of course lots of people die every year, is that an excuse to just ignore a way in which we can stop a lot of that though? Let's get rid of goddamn seatbelts too since whatever, some folks will die, but at least I won't be oppressed by wearing a piece of cloth when I drive.

COVID19 and all variants could end in two weeks from now, if everyone on this planet did what they needed to. They won't though, because humans are selfish egotists, so instead we won't be rid of it in the same way we won't be rid of selfish egotists. It's science vs reality. Reality requires including the absolute idiocy of human nature.

It's zero anklebiter. It's zero deaths, that's what's acceptable to me. Zero deaths from FUCKING EGOTISTICAL MORONS KILLING OTHER PEOPLE is the acceptable number of deaths.

 

[eikelbijter]

Are you vaccinated?

As I explained earlier, that is not pertinent to the discussion. I've already let out of the bag that I had Covid, but even that doesn't matter.

An LATimes article I read today about the Mass. case states that viral loads in the vaccinated were the same as in the unvaccinated. Both can spread it; the idea that being vaccinated protects others was perhaps for a short while valid, but Delta has, made it borderline invalid. Nothing is 100%, good OR bad, but this virus WILL find its way to everybody, in one variant or another.

According to what I've learned, the vaccines are HIGHLY effective at keeping you from getting very sick. I never suggested otherwise. So does having had a previous infection, and as a matter of fact, as confirmed by the most informed and knowledgeable guy on this forum, the study that shows a high chance of LIFELONG protection through germal centers is on point.

Now, for those who HAVEN'T been infected, not getting the shot is taking a chance. Under 50, the chance is quite small that you'll get seriously hurt by it, unless you have underlying conditions. At the same time, if you're over 70 and you chose to take that chance, you could fairly be called foolish or reckless, although I believe in a free country we have the right to be foolish or reckless.

Edit: my crossed out statement was false. Nobody on here has confirmed anything I'm saying. I'm sorry for suggesting that.

 

[Muse]

Of course I know that vaccines work in preventing severe disease and are virtually hundred percent effective in preventing death. I've said it from the beginning and the fact that I have to "clarify" that again just shows that at least some of you are reading things into what I'm saying because it allows you to put me in THAT box.

I also know and have acknowledged the vaccines have prevented many deaths, more in some places than others, but MANY thousands in the US for instance.

Again, I've recommended multiple of my dearest friends to get the vaccine. I've stated it multiple times and just don't understand why you guys refuse to believe me.

What I also believe is that in Los Angeles county the chances of another wave "overwhelming" our healthcare system AT THIS POINT is VERY small. I've worn my mask everywhere I was supposed to for 14 months, stayed home most of the time. I've supported lockdowns at various points in time. At this point I believe it's time to open up; for me, the cost benefit analysis of the restrictions breaks down. It's a sensitive subject but we have to agree on an acceptable risk together, or we won't have a society.

Finally, and the whole moral aspect of this, in my opinion, is a large discussion on its own, which I wasn't looking for here but got sucked into. My understanding was, and thanks to some help interpreting the relevant study, that natural immunity is real and long lasting. In my opinion, vaccinating those who had the disease is a waste of money, as is vaccinating kids. Now if those or their parents WANT to vaccinate I say more power to you. I'm not against the vaccine.

But I have a real problem with the lack of acknowledgement of those in the know, that this will end in places like LA VERY soon, barring a new variant that escapes immunity from vaccine and/or natural infection, regardless of how many MORE get the vaccine. Yes, more people are going to die, but the vast majority have made the decision themselves about whether to take that chance.

One last thing, and this is important. If I had been offered this vaccine in March last year, I would have taken it. Hell, if we had evidence that vaccinated people can't get infected and more importantly infect others, and I hadn't had Covid, I would take it now!

Dude, I think you have a few screws loose. You won't get vaccinated? Loose screws verified.

And where you got the idea that covid-19 recovered individuals have lasting immunity I don't know, but that's counter to what I have heard. I heard information to the effect that their immunity is remarkably inferior to that of the vaccinated, also that getting vaccinated boosts their immunity very considerably. You are due for a self examination, take it or leave it, and get the vaccine now, or wait for a mandate, dope.

 

[eikelbijter]

Well fuck man, of course lots of people die every year, is that an excuse to just ignore a way in which we can stop a lot of that though? Let's get rid of goddamn seatbelts too since whatever, some folks will die, but at least I won't be oppressed by wearing a piece of cloth when I drive.

COVID19 and all variants could end in two weeks from now, if everyone on this planet did what they needed to. They won't though, because humans are selfish egotists, so instead we won't be rid of it in the same way we won't be rid of selfish egotists. It's science vs reality. Reality requires including the absolute idiocy of human nature.

It's zero anklebiter. It's zero deaths, that's what's acceptable to me. Zero deaths from FUCKING EGOTISTICAL MORONS KILLING OTHER PEOPLE is the acceptable number of deaths.

So why don't we all wear motorcycle helmets in the car? I would save hundreds of lives in the US every year.

Listen to yourself, if EVERYBODY DID what YOU want, this would end in 2 weeks? Are you kidding me? Delta is infecting vaccinated people in REAL numbers. They are infecting EACH OTHER. You are living some weird reality my friend....

 

[VW MAN]

[/QUOTE]

Nice try. As a matter of fact I ride my bike everyday. I keep myself in good shape. I don't tell fat people we're gonna gas them if they don't lose weight though. I don't suggest we shouldn't cover their medical costs if they have a stroke, because you know, their own stupidity.

I'll tell you what kind: a guy who chose to give up a diploma in electrical engineering from TU Delft to pursue a career in music at the highest level, something virtually impossible in his beloved homeland. I wouldn't live here if it weren't for that; wouldn't be in a place where someone who doesn't know you or anything you've accomplished to tell you he has a pair of bootstraps for ya! LA is closer to a banana republic, with even my good neighborhood FILLED with crackheads homeless people. Families with kids living in tents underneath the overpasses and....

Listen, I've had a wonderful career, I'm very thankful for what this country has given me, I've made some amazing friends for life. Was a part of TWO records in the 2020 year end top 10 Billboard contemporary Jazz albums of the year; got nominated for a Grammy , worked, and are now continuing to work with some of my favorite musicians in the world. I'm not some MAGA troll, no matter how much you guys want to put me in that box.

Just because you say you are not a MAGA troll does not mean you haven't been a useful idiot tool for them. You have shown exactly how useful you have been for them several times in this thread.

Furthermore those that need to brag about their accomplishments in life in the manner you have done here shows that you feel the need to compensate for some short comings. Literally nobody cares about that kind of bragging on an anonymous obscure tech forum. But yeah good for you yo...youve done some shit with your life and literally everyone else here has also done some shit with theirs.

I can say one more thing here, I thank the ever loving universe after reading your post that I absolutely hate jazz and am.fairly confident I won't on purpose or by accident support you with my money. I hate supporting hypocritical clowns.

-edited to attempt to fix a forum quoting error

 

[eikelbijter]

Dude, I think you have a few screws loose. You won't get vaccinated? Loose screws verified.

And where you got the idea that covid-19 recovered individuals have lasting immunity I don't know, but that's counter to what I have heard. I heard information to the effect that their immunity is remarkably inferior to that of the vaccinated, also that getting vaccinated boosts their immunity very considerably. You are due for a self examination, take it or leave it, and get the vaccine now, or wait for a mandate, dope.

You need to go back and read the rest of this thread before you make yourself look even more foolish. What you have "heard" does not correspond to the truth my friend. I'll repost a link to the study if you want, but there's one doctor on here who is VERY VERY knowledgeable and he has confirmed that the study is on point.

 

[Muse]

I believe in a free country we have the right to be foolish or reckless.

Well, you just proved one thing: that you believe you have the right to be foolish because that statement alone proves you are just that.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So why don't we all wear motorcycle helmets in the car? I would save hundreds of lives in the US every year.

Listen to yourself, if EVERYBODY DID what YOU want, this would end in 2 weeks? Are you kidding me? Delta is infecting vaccinated people in REAL numbers. They are infecting EACH OTHER. You are living some weird reality my friend....

If everyone quarantined for 2 weeks, yes, this would be over in 2 weeks. 2 weeks is enough time for every individual currently infected to either a) die or b) recover. If that happened, the human population would be COVID free.

I never said that was 'what I wanted', I was making a point. We've never been in an impossible situation, we're in a situation we as a species chose.

And sure, why the fuck not, let's wear some motorcycle helmets (as long as the loss of peripheral vision didn't kill more).

 

[cytg111]

How would you define "over"? When, in your opinion, would it be ok to go back to normal? Don't say "when everybody is vaccinated" because that is not the question. What needs to be happening, or not happening in hospitals, in society before you think we can lift all restrictions and live like we did before Covid?

Well if you have a sane population that gets vaccinated, then it will be over in the sense that you will, forever going forward, go get a regular shot and maybe mask up with small flare ups @ hotspots. Otherwise it will be back to normal.

If you DONT have a sane population where 25% believes Bill Gates is out to get you. Its never going to be over. Sorry. Sucks to be you. .

 

[eikelbijter]

Just because you say you are not a MAGA troll does not mean you haven't been a useful idiot tool for them. You have shown exactly how useful you have been for them several times in this thread.

Furthermore those that need to brag about their accomplishments in life in the manner you have done here shows that you feel the need to compensate for some short comings. Literally nobody cares about that kind of bragging on an anonymous obscure tech forum. But yeah good for you yo...youve done some shit with your life and literally everyone else here has also done some shit with theirs.

I can say one more thing here, I thank the ever loving universe after reading your post that I absolutely hate jazz and am.fairly confident I won't on purpose or by accident support you with my money. I hate supporting hypocritical clowns.

The only reason I stated what I have done with my life is to illustrate that the suggestion from a poster here that he has some "bootstraps" for me was ludicrous and insulting. I'm not bragging buddy, or suggesting I'm better than ANYONE else.

Your hateful spewing of words does show how fucked, and I'm assuming you're American, the USA is. Nothing but name calling and putting people in boxes. Thank GOD I won't see you at a concert near you! ;-)

 

[cytg111]

As I explained earlier, that is not pertinent to the discussion. I've already let out of the bag that I had Covid, but even that doesn't matter.

An LATimes article I read today about the Mass. case states that viral loads in the vaccinated were the same as in the unvaccinated. Both can spread it; the idea that being vaccinated protects others was perhaps for a short while valid, but Delta has, made it borderline invalid. Nothing is 100%, good OR bad, but this virus WILL find its way to everybody, in one variant or another.

According to what I've learned, the vaccines are HIGHLY effective at keeping you from getting very sick. I never suggested otherwise. So does having had a previous infection, and as a matter of fact, as confirmed by the most informed and knowledgeable guy on this forum, the study that shows a high chance of LIFELONG protection through germal centers is on point.

Now, for those who HAVEN'T been infected, not getting the shot is taking a chance. Under 50, the chance is quite small that you'll get seriously hurt by it, unless you have underlying conditions. At the same time, if you're over 70 and you chose to take that chance, you could fairly be called foolish or reckless, although I believe in a free country we have the right to be foolish or reckless.

Imagine this as a giant sign

"UNVACCINATED WILL BE SHOT BEYOND THIS POINT".

 

[Muse]

You need to go back and read the rest of this thread before you make yourself look even more foolish. What you have "heard" does not correspond to the truth my friend. I'll repost a link to the study if you want, but there's one doctor on here who is VERY VERY knowledgeable and he has confirmed that the study is on point.

For me to accept that is to rely on hearsay, nothing substantive. Link me or remain untrustworthy.

 

[blackangst1]

Well fuck man, of course lots of people die every year, is that an excuse to just ignore a way in which we can stop a lot of that though? Let's get rid of goddamn seatbelts too since whatever, some folks will die, but at least I won't be oppressed by wearing a piece of cloth when I drive.

COVID19 and all variants could end in two weeks from now, if everyone on this planet did what they needed to. They won't though, because humans are selfish egotists, so instead we won't be rid of it in the same way we won't be rid of selfish egotists. It's science vs reality. Reality requires including the absolute idiocy of human nature.

It's zero anklebiter. It's zero deaths, that's what's acceptable to me. Zero deaths from FUCKING EGOTISTICAL MORONS KILLING OTHER PEOPLE is the acceptable number of deaths.

edit: I think the number is around 36,000/year. Thats how many die from the flu and we dont blink an eye.

 

[dank69]

So why don't we all wear motorcycle helmets in the car? I would save hundreds of lives in the US every year.

Listen to yourself, if EVERYBODY DID what YOU want, this would end in 2 weeks? Are you kidding me? Delta is infecting vaccinated people in REAL numbers. They are infecting EACH OTHER. You are living some weird reality my friend....

Wearing a motorcycle helmet in the car would endanger far more lives than it would save, but thanks for the red herrings.

 

[eikelbijter]

If everyone quarantined for 2 weeks, yes, this would be over in 2 weeks. 2 weeks is enough time for every individual currently infected to either a) die or b) recover. If that happened, the human population would be COVID free.

I never said that was 'what I wanted', I was making a point. We've never been in an impossible situation, we're in a situation we as a species chose.

And sure, why the fuck not, let's wear some motorcycle helmets (as long as the loss of peripheral vision didn't kill more).

Wow, you actually said something that makes sense. Yes, if everybody would quarantine for a certain amount of time, it would die out. I believe 2 weeks is not enough, but 4 weeks might just do it. Problem is, that is FANTASY. It simply isn't possible.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So fucking tired of the truly worthless stuff being posted by our newly awakened member. Goes round and round and never a conclusion.
So fucking irritating.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

edit: I think the number is around 36,000/year. Thats how many die from the flu and we dont blink an eye.

Honestly? Sure, if I was god-emperor for a day, I'd make it a law written in stone that all citizens will have a yearly checkup, as a paid holiday and completely free, that included all relevant medical tests as well as yearly vaccinations. Paid for via a newly presented socialized medical program (that would be the morning's work).