Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[Zorba]

Looks like no herd immunity is possible with Delta variant and current vaccines.

But with the delta variant, a mutated and more transmissible version of the virus, the level of virus in infected vaccinated people is "indistinguishable” from the level of virus in the noses and throats of unvaccinated people, Walensky (CDC Director ) said. The data emerged over the last couple of days from over 100 samples from several states and one other country. It is unpublished, and the CDC has not released it. But “it is concerning enough that we feel like we have to act,” Walensky said. Vaccinated people "have the potential to spread that virus to others,” she said.

I really wish instead of smearing vaccines, they'd say "Because people are selfish assholes, who are incapable of following the Honor System, everyone has to wear masks. Don't like it? Get vaccinated."

 

[Zorba]

So why hasn't the FDA approved the safest, most effective vaccine in the history of vaccines?

Because they have to have a minimum length of time of safety data to get full approval.

 

[raildogg]

Because they have to have a minimum length of time of safety data to get full approval.

So given the severity of the situation, we have to give a non-so-fully-tested vaccine instead of waiting. Ok then. So this is now the new precedent .

 

[raildogg]

I really wish instead of smearing vaccines, they'd say "Because people are selfish assholes, who are incapable of following the Honor System, everyone has to wear masks. Don't like it? Get vaccinated."

Tell me, if everyone got the vaxx, the masks will just vanish?

 

[eikelbijter]

You aren't antivax just like all the trumpers that claim to be Democrats and just very very concerned about the direction they're going.

"Serious guys I'm pro-vax, now let me spend 10,000 words spewing a bunch of antivax propaganda I got from YouTube."

Your incessant refusal to accept that there is a middle ground between being anti-vax and just accepting everything without question is quite telling. It's really a problem in America and starting to become one in the rest of the world. It's tribalism at its worst.

I assure you, I'm not anti-vax, I'm not anti-science. I've received, gladly, many vaccines. I know the Covid ones work, almost 100%, in keeping people from becoming very sick or dying. I've said this from the beginning. Does that sound like anti-vax propaganda?

 

[Zorba]

So given the severity of the situation, we have to give a non-so-fully-tested vaccine instead of waiting. Ok then. So this is now the new precedent .

It is the law written for EUAs year ago. Maybe you should educate yourself on a real website like fda.gov as opposed to facebook?

 

[Zorba]

Your incessant refusal to accept that there is a middle ground between being anti-vax and just accepting everything without question is quite telling. It's really a problem in America and starting to become one in the rest of the world. It's tribalism at its worst.

I assure you, I'm not anti-vax, I'm not anti-science. I've received, gladly, many vaccines. I know the Covid ones work, almost 100%, in keeping people from becoming very sick or dying. I've said this from the beginning. Does that sound like anti-vax propaganda?

When you spew thousands of words that are straight from anti-vax propaganda, I don't really give a shit that you claim you aren't anti-vax. Just like when @s0me0nesmind1 claims to be a democrat and then posts non-stop crazy right wing propaganda I don't believe him either.

 

[eikelbijter]

But you did. Get over it. I suggest you read more about vaccines before making statements that you don't understand.

Or would still rather get a natural infection with HPV or rabies over their respective vaccines?

Furthermore, please explain to all of us, why the neutralizing antibody titers in this paper were 10x higher in vaccinated individuals vs those with natural infection against SARS-CoV-2? Or why would our immune system have sporadic and weak neutralizing antibodies after natural infection, but the vaccine boosted the response by 1000x fold in this study, leading to cross-immunity to other SARS-CoV-2 strains?


"Top immunologists" know that an antibody cannot neutralize a virus by binding something that isn't on the surface of a virus. Why would you say such a uninformed statement?

Better yet, explain to us the process of how antibodies are made to viral antigens. It is a straightforward mechanism. Please explain it. This will answer your question about useless antibodies. The human immune system does it all the time, it is part of the adaptive immune response. Please explain it, since clearly you think nucleocapsid antibodies matter.

I did what? I did not make general statements about "vaccines", I've only talked about the Covid ones.

Now, again, I'm not a doctor, but very few around here are. I'm always willing to learn. What I do know though, is that immunity is WAY more than antibodies alone, and to simplify the "effectiveness" of your bodies immunity to the level of some antibodies is foolish.

Now, from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, and please link to a place where I can learn more about this, there are different types of antibodies. Some will bind to that RBD and prevent the virus from even entering a cell to start the replication. But others will recognize some antigen and be able to destroy a cell in which a virus has entered. If you have a good reference for the chemical mechanisms through which they are produced, I'd love to know. You're a doctor right? I'm serious, I'm NOT AN ANTI-VAXXER.

What I do know is, that Cleveland Clinic published a study in which they state that:
"Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before. "

Is the Cleveland Clinic fake news now? I thought we believe in science?

Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[eikelbijter]

When you spew thousands of words that are straight from anti-vax propaganda, I don't really give a shit that you claim you aren't anti-vax. Just like when @s0me0nesmind1 claims to be a democrat and then posts non-stop crazy right wing propaganda I don't believe him either.

Except I didn't dude. You really need to calm down and think about what you're saying. That propaganda you're talking about says the vaccines are useless, I said the opposite, the propaganda says it's a conspiracy, which I don't believe, I haven't said a word about all the supposed side-effects that anti-vaxxers claim there are, I believe they are by and large as safe as a medical procedure can be. You're WAY off base here....

 

[Meghan54]

I did what? I did not make general statements about "vaccines", I've only talked about the Covid ones.

Now, again, I'm not a doctor, but very few around here are. I'm always willing to learn. What I do know though, is that immunity is WAY more than antibodies alone, and to simplify the "effectiveness" of your bodies immunity to the level of some antibodies is foolish.

Now, from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, and please link to a place where I can learn more about this, there are different types of antibodies. Some will bind to that RBD and prevent the virus from even entering a cell to start the replication. But others will recognize some antigen and be able to destroy a cell in which a virus has entered. If you have a good reference for the chemical mechanisms through which they are produced, I'd love to know. You're a doctor right? I'm serious, I'm NOT AN ANTI-VAXXER.

What I do know is, that Cleveland Clinic published a study in which they state that:
"Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before. "

Is the Cleveland Clinic fake news now? I thought we believe in science?

Link please

 

[eikelbijter]

So you think it's better to get there immunity through natural infection? Why? Why go through another couple million dead Americans and over ran hospitals as opposed to just going and getting a simple shot?

See, this is propaganda from the OTHER side. "Another couple million dead Americans"? Are you kidding me? There's NO WAY! Even without vaccines, if every single person got infected in the US, at an IFR of 0.35% (and it's lower than that I believe) we'd barely get to a million in total. You're suggesting 2.6 million dead, which is pure fear-mongering and just as preposterous as the anti-vaxxers nonsense about the dangers of the vaccine.

 

[eikelbijter]

Link please

Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[allisolm]

Florida, whose cases are spiking massively compared to any other state, has now decided to stop reporting daily Covid data and will only report weekly.

This is a transparent attempt to conceal data which looks really bad for them.

Gov DeSantis decreed that reporting would go from daily to weekly a long time back (about 2 months). I agree that it was an attempt to keep data from being so noticeable but it didn't have anything to do with this current spike.

 

[Meghan54]

Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any...

www.medrxiv.org

Preprint and not peer reviewed.

 

[Homerboy]

So there are two kind of distinct groups left unvaccinated.

1) the truly hesitant for whatever reason but ultimately persuadable
2) the ignorant assholes

I'm in favor of whatever outreach is required to get group 1 vaccinated but find myself less and less sympathetic to group 2 as the days go on.

Re: group 2, the increasingly prevailing feeling among my peers is that they've made their choices and no amount of pressure or coddling will make them change their minds so let them suffer the consequences whatever those may be. Make it hard for them to interact with the rest of us and let the chips fall where they may.

The problem is group 2 is WAY larger than group 1.

 

[eikelbijter]

Preprint and not peer reviewed.

We'll see I guess. The evidence is pretty strong though, don't you agree? You're a little too eager to just write this off because it doesn't fit your narrative.......

 

[Homerboy]

Yeah I am cool with showing my vaccination card that is fine just that would never work at a concert for large event. The line would take forever and it would be super simple to scam. Plus business wouldn’t check or would back down at the first resistance. They are in a people business and turning someone away from a sammich is going to be bad wether it is Karen making a scene or jimmy leaving a bad review or some dude who goes somewhere else that will serve him and continues to go there.

You already got wanded, go through metal detectors and/or have your bag searched. This is nothing new. Period. Sad excuse.

 

[hal2kilo]

Except I didn't dude. You really need to calm down and think about what you're saying. That propaganda you're talking about says the vaccines are useless, I said the opposite, the propaganda says it's a conspiracy, which I don't believe, I haven't said a word about all the supposed side-effects that anti-vaxxers claim there are, I believe they are by and large as safe as a medical procedure can be. You're WAY off base here....

Wow, you are just so subtle.

 

[eikelbijter]

Wow, you are just so subtle.

Thank you for your AWESOME contribution to this serious thread. You're an inspiration to us all!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You already got wanded, go through metal detectors and/or have your bag searched. This is nothing new. Period. Sad excuse.

Those still are not tracking my movement or who I interact with or my contacts.
Again if it is some kind of code scan thing and the data for the at is appropriately restricted and secured PLUS gets deleted after a reasonable amount of time I would be okay with that.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

This thread is still going on? Is anklebiter still trying to convince people he's a pro-vax moderate?

That's none of your business and not pertinent to this conversation.

Fucking lol.

 

[eikelbijter]

But you did. Get over it. I suggest you read more about vaccines before making statements that you don't understand.

Or would still rather get a natural infection with HPV or rabies over their respective vaccines?

Furthermore, please explain to all of us, why the neutralizing antibody titers in this paper were 10x higher in vaccinated individuals vs those with natural infection against SARS-CoV-2? Or why would our immune system have sporadic and weak neutralizing antibodies after natural infection, but the vaccine boosted the response by 1000x fold in this study, leading to cross-immunity to other SARS-CoV-2 strains?


"Top immunologists" know that an antibody cannot neutralize a virus by binding something that isn't on the surface of a virus. Why would you say such a uninformed statement?

Better yet, explain to us the process of how antibodies are made to viral antigens. It is a straightforward mechanism. Please explain it. This will answer your question about useless antibodies. The human immune system does it all the time, it is part of the adaptive immune response. Please explain it, since clearly you think nucleocapsid antibodies matter.

So explain what this means then:

"antibody can neutralize virus by: 1) blocking virus-host cell interactions or 2) recognizing viral antigens on virus-infected cells which can lead to antibody-dependent cytotoxic cells (ADCC) or complement-mediated lysis. "

from:

Immune Defenses - Medical Microbiology - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is this fake news? Anti-vaxxer propaganda?

 

[eikelbijter]

This thread is still going on? Is anklebiter still trying to convince people he's a pro-vax moderate?



Fucking lol.

Your refusal to acknowledge that there is a middle ground shows that the propaganda with YOU is as strong as with the anti-vax nutballs.

 

[eikelbijter]

WHY oh WHY can't you guys just accept that I'm FOR everyone who wants to get vaccinated to do so, that I recommended even some of my friends DO get it, but that I'm against FORCING others to do so? It's not that crazy, is it? It's beyond bizarre.....

 

[Fanatical Meat]

WHY oh WHY can't you guys just accept that I'm FOR everyone who wants to get vaccinated to do so, that I recommended even some of my friends DO get it, but that I'm against FORCING others to do so? It's not that crazy, is it? It's beyond bizarre.....

Who is saying force them?