Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[abj13]

Again, comparing vaccines for other viruses, and then suggesting I made a statement about VACCINES in general is disingenuous. To compare rabies with Covid 19 is preposterous.

But you did. Get over it. I suggest you read more about vaccines before making statements that you don't understand.

Or would still rather get a natural infection with HPV or rabies over their respective vaccines?

Furthermore, please explain to all of us, why the neutralizing antibody titers in this paper were 10x higher in vaccinated individuals vs those with natural infection against SARS-CoV-2? Or why would our immune system have sporadic and weak neutralizing antibodies after natural infection, but the vaccine boosted the response by 1000x fold in this study, leading to cross-immunity to other SARS-CoV-2 strains?

And yes, I do know is has an envelope. Are you suggesting our body is making "useless: antibodies? As far as I know, even the top immunologists don't even know exactly how our immune system works., but you seem to have a solid grasp on it.... ;-)

"Top immunologists" know that an antibody cannot neutralize a virus by binding something that isn't on the surface of a virus. Why would you say such a uninformed statement?

Better yet, explain to us the process of how antibodies are made to viral antigens. It is a straightforward mechanism. Please explain it. This will answer your question about useless antibodies. The human immune system does it all the time, it is part of the adaptive immune response. Please explain it, since clearly you think nucleocapsid antibodies matter.

 

[Zorba]

And again, with the name calling. I'm NOT anti-vax, I've told multiple close friends to get vaccinated. I've defended science and vaccinations for YEARS with my anti-vax neighbors. You're way off base. This has been my account for many years, I just didn't post much.

Just so you know, I'm not American, I just live in LA.

You aren't antivax just like all the trumpers that claim to be Democrats and just very very concerned about the direction they're going.

"Serious guys I'm pro-vax, now let me spend 10,000 words spewing a bunch of antivax propaganda I got from YouTube."

 

[Zorba]

Many suggest that this will go on and on if everybody doesn't get vaccinated. I know many out there say that vaccine immunity is "better" but when you read the ACTUAL studies, not some article about the study, you realize that it's speculation, extrapolation built on SOME difference, but I've not seen a SINGLE study that says it's categorically better.

The bottom line is, if herd immunity is possible through vaccination, it's possible through natural infection. I'm not sure why that is so difficult to accept. Of course more people would die. Life's a bitch.

So you think it's better to get there immunity through natural infection? Why? Why go through another couple million dead Americans and over ran hospitals as opposed to just going and getting a simple shot?

 

[Scarpozzi]

The burden of having to provide a vaccine is documentation. Even if we force everyone to carry a vaccine card, the computer systems will have to have a way to record the status. I work with such a system in my organization and it would just be adding a new code, but then the burden shifts to actually collecting and entering the data for 20k people or more, annually. That's a lot of staff time of explaining, entering, and enforcing the requirement.

I'm not sure how other organizations or events would handle the administration load of they were geared for it. There's definitely a huge cost to enforcing a vaccine policy for the masses.

That's why it should be done at the Federal level and enforced from there. Go ahead and implant us with tracking chips too to get it over with and make the paranoid even more nervous. 🤣

 

[Zorba]

The burden of having to provide a vaccine is documentation. Even if we force everyone to carry a vaccine card, the computer systems will have to have a way to record the status. I work with such a system in my organization and it would just be adding a new code, but then the burden shifts to actually collecting and entering the data for 20k people or more, annually. That's a lot of staff time of explaining, entering, and enforcing the requirement.

I'm not sure how other organizations or events would handle the administration load of they were geared for it. There's definitely a huge cost to enforcing a vaccine policy for the masses.

That's why it should be done at the Federal level and enforced from there. Go ahead and implant us with tracking chips too to get it over with and make the paranoid even more nervous. 🤣

Every year we have to verify our smoking status. Self identified, automatically logged.

 

[Paratus]

But you did. Get over it. I suggest you read more about vaccines before making statements that you don't understand.

Or would still rather get a natural infection with HPV or rabies over their respective vaccines?

Furthermore, please explain to all of us, why the neutralizing antibody titers in this paper were 10x higher in vaccinated individuals vs those with natural infection against SARS-CoV-2? Or why would our immune system have sporadic and weak neutralizing antibodies after natural infection, but the vaccine boosted the response by 1000x fold in this study, leading to cross-immunity to other SARS-CoV-2 strains?


"Top immunologists" know that an antibody cannot neutralize a virus by binding something that isn't on the surface of a virus. Why would you say such a uninformed statement?

Better yet, explain to us the process of how antibodies are made to viral antigens. It is a straightforward mechanism. Please explain it. This will answer your question about useless antibodies. The human immune system does it all the time, it is part of the adaptive immune response. Please explain it, since clearly you think nucleocapsid antibodies matter.

This was a well researched well thought out point. However, you said, “Why would you make such A uninformed statement?”

It should have been “AN”. Since you made a grammatical mistake he’ll obviously focus on that now. /s

 

[dank69]

I said CATEGORICALLY better. Again, reading comprehension my friends. Look it up if you don't know what it means.

If someone had a reading comprehension problem, what would reading about it accomplish?

 

[Scarpozzi]

Every year we have to verify our smoking status. Self identified, automatically logged.

Yes, but that's honor system. We've already proven that anti-vaxxers have no honor.

I'm not suggesting we don't have a requirement. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind it being done from the federal level with a national vaccine register.

 

[kitkat22]

This is so full of wrong; first off I never said Covid is not a big deal, it's a HUGE deal.

Secondly, WAY more than 10% have had Covid. WAY more. Secondly, not quite 1 in 500 have died, but 0.188% is a lot. If we look at other countries where the virus infected everybody, the IFR without vaccines looks to be about 0.3 at most. Now that most are vaccinated in the US and we've had about 55% infection, there's NO WAY we'll get to 0.3. It's just not gonna happen. It's fear mongering to suggest that..

I am full of wrong by giving estimates and doing a minor rounding? Ok, fine. Based on your number of .188% then 1 in 530 have died. Does that make that big of a difference? Really? Second, did I mention you by name? "Here" is an approximation of this site. There are "some." Finally, there is another wave happening right now. Yes, I agree covid is a big deal. The virus kills people and when we overrun the health care system even more will die needlessly. In the past week I have personally admitted 12 people with COVID. Obviously, I can't give any personally identifying info because HIPAA does apply to me.

I have heard you, you are not "anti-vax" and you have told your friends. My rant was intended as a generality. This isn't just about you.

What I have said is true. We lack nurses because they were already overworked and overwhelmed with the last round. The health care system is not an infinite resource. Never has been. Most should know that already. The other part, that our hospitals are full, is also true. We are full. Period, full stop. The sad part is it isn't just covid causing it to be full. Now add the extra stress of any number of cases. Of which, I just added 12 in the last week.

Believe what you want and repeat yourself as much as you want. There is a cold reality that covid is going to be with us for a while. We are already counting another surge and maybe we won't hit a large case fatality. But we are seeing morbidity caused by covid. Ask any of the long haulers. I have.

 

[Roger Wilco]

That's none of your business and not pertinent to this conversation.

So you are recommending the vaccine to others, but you refuse to take it yourself?

Do you ever provide a reason as to why, or do you tell everyone that it's your "personal business?"

 

[pmv]

The bottom line is, if herd immunity is possible through vaccination, it's possible through natural infection. I'm not sure why that is so difficult to accept. Of course more people would die. Life's a bitch.

Oh look, there it is - the faux-heroic posture striking.

 

[Zorba]

Yes, but that's honor system. We've already proven that anti-vaxxers have no honor.

I'm not suggesting we don't have a requirement. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind it being done from the federal level with a national vaccine register.

I'd be fine with that.

The registration is a honor system with a big stick. You lie, you are fired and they do audit it. I'd imagine most companies would have you upload the verification too, so it'd be less obvious that no one was checking everyone.

On the flip side, my company currently has over 500 out for covid or quarantining for COVID. It has a major impact on production lines when an entire group goes home for a couple weeks.

 

[pmv]

You are correct that one can flatten a curve enough to NOT make it rise to max anymore. I'm talking about an ACTUAL reality though, not theoretical possibilities. In my opinion the cat is out of the bag in LA and within 2 months this is completely over. I know TOO many people who were fully masked with N95s, gloves, careful as hell, who got Covid anyway.

This seems to be the conservative playbook - do everything you can to ensure nothing is done to prevent a crisis, then declare "it's sadly too late anyway, and nothing can now be done, we just have to live with it".
I suspect it's the same approach they are planning to take with climate change.

 

[K1052]

On the flip side, my company currently has over 500 out for covid or quarantining for COVID. It has a major impact on production lines when an entire group goes home for a couple weeks.

Vaccine mandates are going to be increasingly attractive to businesses because it's costing them money not to have them in place. Once the FDA fully approves for adults I'd expect to see a lot of corps do the vaccinate or you have to mask and test thing.

 

[pmv]

"grammer"? Are you not American?

Clearly you don't care about grammer, just because she's elderly and probably at high risk from covid. I doubt you care about granda either.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Come on guys, will you stop taking the master bait and letting them jerk off all over your faces, out of their assholes?

 

[woolfe9998]

Florida, whose cases are spiking massively compared to any other state, has now decided to stop reporting daily Covid data and will only report weekly.

Florida has 'no plans' to resume daily COVID-19 reports

The governor's spokesperson encouraged people who are concerned about the virus to get a vaccine.

www.wtsp.com

This is a transparent attempt to conceal data which looks really bad for them.

 

[JTsyo]

Looks like no herd immunity is possible with Delta variant and current vaccines.

But with the delta variant, a mutated and more transmissible version of the virus, the level of virus in infected vaccinated people is "indistinguishable” from the level of virus in the noses and throats of unvaccinated people, Walensky (CDC Director ) said. The data emerged over the last couple of days from over 100 samples from several states and one other country. It is unpublished, and the CDC has not released it. But “it is concerning enough that we feel like we have to act,” Walensky said. Vaccinated people "have the potential to spread that virus to others,” she said.

 

[fskimospy]

So it appears that the concerns about low effectiveness of current vaccines against the delta variant is likely wrong. The evidence indicates they remain highly effective.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1420059141083631617

 

[ch33zw1z]

Looks like no herd immunity is possible with Delta variant and current vaccines.

But with the delta variant, a mutated and more transmissible version of the virus, the level of virus in infected vaccinated people is "indistinguishable” from the level of virus in the noses and throats of unvaccinated people, Walensky (CDC Director ) said. The data emerged over the last couple of days from over 100 samples from several states and one other country. It is unpublished, and the CDC has not released it. But “it is concerning enough that we feel like we have to act,” Walensky said. Vaccinated people "have the potential to spread that virus to others,” she said.

If that's the case, here's my take:

1. Vaccinated people still need to mask and social distance as when requested.

2. Delta variant is still covered by the current available vaccines AFAIK, so even those they're contagious....the infection is likely to be much less severe.

Just gotta be careful still and not spread it to unvaccinated? Do they even care?

 

[Muse]

I think you would be surprised. Sure, there are some people who are super committed and would be willing to risk a felony by forging a card just to avoid getting a shot but the vast majority of people would do it to end the inconvenience.

A small percent of cheaters isn't going to be a big problem.

 

[Pohemi]

Oh look, there it is - the faux-heroic posture striking.


View attachment 47893

He definitely comes off as a real Farquad. "Everyone needs to just get over this because I'm tired of masks and lockdowns."

It's obviously all about him and his feels.

 

[raildogg]

So why hasn't the FDA approved the safest, most effective vaccine in the history of vaccines?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So why hasn't the FDA approved the safest, most effective vaccine in the history of vaccines?

Who has claimed it is the safest & most effective in the history of vaccines?

Per reading seems full approval for Pfizer will come beginning of 2022. Give or take a bit.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So why hasn't the FDA approved the safest, most effective vaccine in the history of vaccines?

Why have there been around a billion doses given and you still appear to think it is dangerous? How many doses need to be given for you to say it is safe?