Discussion Considering upgrading 2500K business PC (UPDATED)

[Markfw]

Reading his edited post he says he wants today's equivalent of a 2500k. I would take that as being either a 9600k or a 3600(x)

He can substitute a 3600 or 3600x in my list, but I still think a fast IO system with PCIE 4.0 would be in his best interest, so the rest of my list holds. Save $100 to get 6 slower cores instead of 8 fast ones ? I don't see why its worth it. For a $1500 budget vs $1600

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I agree with mark, assuming it’s going to be a long term machine X570 is the way to go. Not that much more expensive than a X470. Only bummer could be the chipset fan crapping out on year 6 or 7. We’re not talking a lot of money assuming he goes mid range it’s like $140 vs $175.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I agree with mark, assuming it’s going to be a long term machine X570 is the way to go. Not that much more expensive than a X470. Only bummer could be the chipset fan crapping out on year 6 or 7. We’re not talking a lot of money assuming he goes mid range it’s like $140 vs $175.

I was going to agree, with the PCI-E 4.0 sentiment. But then I was thinking, why not a Tomahawk B450 MAX ATX mobo?

 

[Markfw]

I was going to agree, with the PCI-E 4.0 sentiment. But then I was thinking, why not a Tomahawk B450 MAX ATX mobo?

No guarantee of PCIE 4.0 if its not an x570 otherboard

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, PCI-E is future-proof, so to speak, but does it do anything for him NOW? I mean, yeah, the PCI-E 4.0 NVMe SSDs are nice, but they all come with heatsinks, because they throttle like a MOFO if you try to do anything serious with them. And GPUs? Sure, PCI-E 4.0 helps there, but most people would be fine with PCI-E 2.0 x8 slots, for all but the highest cards. (My current B450-F STRIX board, uses PCI-E 3.0 x8 for the primary slot, and PCI-E 3.0 x4 for the secondary slot, when NVMe slot #2 is populated - it is.)

 

[Flayed]

He can substitute a 3600 or 3600x in my list, but I still think a fast IO system with PCIE 4.0 would be in his best interest, so the rest of my list holds. Save $100 to get 6 slower cores instead of 8 fast ones ? I don't see why its worth it. For a $1500 budget vs $1600

Slow vs fast cores? 200Mhz difference? 5%?

 

[Charlie98]

Jeepers, guys... I leave for a day and come back to this...! Just for the record, and as someone noted, I did update my budget... I'm not looking to spend a bunch of money, I don't typically throw money at tech (just look at my systems...) I made that mistake with my first PC (the one being replaced,) which has had every component upgraded except for the CPU and mobo, so, Mark, I got you on spending the money now for a long-term system... it just takes a bit to digest a $500 CPU.

Edit: One last thought. Your old system made if 8 years. If you want this one to do the same, you need PCIE 4.0 (AMD X570) you need a PCIE 4.0 NVME drive, and 12-15 cores is not too many. The $500 CPU is the same price as the Intel 9900k, and blows it out of the water on the apps you run. And if someone point out that in MS Word or something that Intel is faster, I say my how many milliseconds. The video and audio editing require cores, and IO speed. Well and memory speed.

I also clarified the video and audio editing... typically what I do is transcode (which wads up my 2500K, nowadays,) but it's at the hobby level; I do it while I'm working on the PC, so I could see where more cores would help with that.

I really think the 3900x is worth it, but if money is a concern, or you really can't go with 12 cores/24 threads, the 8 core 16 thread 3700x is quite formidable, and still PCIE 4.0 if you get the x570 motherboard. And as for the 9600k, the $200 3600 will beat it in the tasks you say for $20 less, and comes with a heatsink.

...and...

I find myself less inclined to recommend the 3600 recently. What has been putting me off in no particular order:
Very long post times. If I've just built a new PC I want it to turn on quickly.
Poor minimum frame rates in particular games (Far Cry 5 among others)
Platform issues. I want stuff to work without hassle.
Wide variation of silicon lottery. Reports of some chips barely meeting their base clocks.

In just the very little research I've done since I started this thread, I have seen conversations on issues with the 3600 AMD chips. Long boot times... that's what I have now, and one of the reasons I'd like to upgrade. Of course, with a more stable OS, maybe I don't have to reboot so often, either. I'm assuming these problems don't plague the 3700 and 3900 chips?

No, Mark is correct... no gaming.

And, yes, I am a bit concerned about adopting to a new platform (x570.) I can assemble hardware all day long, I am not a software/programming guy.

If interested, I will add more details, but that is a FAST system for business.

As noted above, I see your genius on the 3900x system, it makes sense. I will have to continue my research to see if it's the right fit for me. I'm curious, however... everyone seems to be split between the 3900x and the 3600x, is there anything wrong with 3700/3800x?

Reading his edited post he says he wants today's equivalent of a 2500k. I would take that as being either a 9600k or a 3600(x)

I also realize this is 8 years later... whereas 4 cores used to be the standard, now we are looking at moar cores... and likely for a reason. The 2500K was such a stud of a processor... I want that in 2019 parts, if you see what I mean.

I agree with mark, assuming it’s going to be a long term machine X570 is the way to go. Not that much more expensive than a X470. Only bummer could be the chipset fan crapping out on year 6 or 7. We’re not talking a lot of money assuming he goes mid range it’s like $140 vs $175.

Speaking of mobos... If I'm not going ITX (and I understand the reasoning not to do so) the biggest I would want to use would be mATX, so I could reuse my Fractal Define Mini. Unfortunately, Newegg lists exactly ONE mATX x570 board... is x570 so new, or has mATX fallen out of favor???

I knew about M2 SSDs, I've never heard of PCIe 4.0. I guess I'll have to look that up. And, Larry, I think you are right... I won't be putting anything more than a lower-end EVGA video card in. I'm also curious about why a SSD would throttle from heat... I thought that was one of the beauties of SSD's... no heat?

 

[Markfw]

Jeepers, guys... I leave for a day and come back to this...! Just for the record, and as someone noted, I did update my budget... I'm not looking to spend a bunch of money, I don't typically throw money at tech (just look at my systems...) I made that mistake with my first PC (the one being replaced,) which has had every component upgraded except for the CPU and mobo, so, Mark, I got you on spending the money now for a long-term system... it just takes a bit to digest a $500 CPU.



I also clarified the video and audio editing... typically what I do is transcode (which wads up my 2500K, nowadays,) but it's at the hobby level; I do it while I'm working on the PC, so I could see where more cores would help with that.



...and...



In just the very little research I've done since I started this thread, I have seen conversations on issues with the 3600 AMD chips. Long boot times... that's what I have now, and one of the reasons I'd like to upgrade. Of course, with a more stable OS, maybe I don't have to reboot so often, either. I'm assuming these problems don't plague the 3700 and 3900 chips?

No, Mark is correct... no gaming.

And, yes, I am a bit concerned about adopting to a new platform (x570.) I can assemble hardware all day long, I am not a software/programming guy.



As noted above, I see your genius on the 3900x system, it makes sense. I will have to continue my research to see if it's the right fit for me. I'm curious, however... everyone seems to be split between the 3900x and the 3600x, is there anything wrong with 3700/3800x?



I also realize this is 8 years later... whereas 4 cores used to be the standard, now we are looking at moar cores... and likely for a reason. The 2500K was such a stud of a processor... I want that in 2019 parts, if you see what I mean.




Speaking of mobos... If I'm not going ITX (and I understand the reasoning not to do so) the biggest I would want to use would be mATX, so I could reuse my Fractal Define Mini. Unfortunately, Newegg lists exactly ONE mATX x570 board... is x570 so new, or has mATX fallen out of favor???

I knew about M2 SSDs, I've never heard of PCIe 4.0. I guess I'll have to look that up. And, Larry, I think you are right... I won't be putting anything more than a lower-end EVGA video card in. I'm also curious about why a SSD would throttle from heat... I thought that was one of the beauties of SSD's... no heat?

First, I ignore the boot times. I boot once in a blue moon, and you could just leave it to go to sleep also.

Now as far as the NVME drives getting hot and slowing down, YES, they are so fast. But the Corsair (I think I linked that one) has a factory heatsink that looks awesome. And I have that on the 3900x I am trying from.

And as far as 3700,3700x,3800x not having boot time problems ? (long times) my x370 board, now updated to accept the 3000 series, now takes 30 seconds or more to boot. ! Its a new world.

I go with:
1) what works best for my purpose perf/$$$
2) What is affordable for the long run.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Jeepers, guys... I leave for a day and come back to this...! Just for the record, and as someone noted, I did update my budget... I'm not looking to spend a bunch of money, I don't typically throw money at tech (just look at my systems...) I made that mistake with my first PC (the one being replaced,) which has had every component upgraded except for the CPU and mobo, so, Mark, I got you on spending the money now for a long-term system... it just takes a bit to digest a $500 CPU.



I also clarified the video and audio editing... typically what I do is transcode (which wads up my 2500K, nowadays,) but it's at the hobby level; I do it while I'm working on the PC, so I could see where more cores would help with that.



...and...



In just the very little research I've done since I started this thread, I have seen conversations on issues with the 3600 AMD chips. Long boot times... that's what I have now, and one of the reasons I'd like to upgrade. Of course, with a more stable OS, maybe I don't have to reboot so often, either. I'm assuming these problems don't plague the 3700 and 3900 chips?

No, Mark is correct... no gaming.

And, yes, I am a bit concerned about adopting to a new platform (x570.) I can assemble hardware all day long, I am not a software/programming guy.



As noted above, I see your genius on the 3900x system, it makes sense. I will have to continue my research to see if it's the right fit for me. I'm curious, however... everyone seems to be split between the 3900x and the 3600x, is there anything wrong with 3700/3800x?



I also realize this is 8 years later... whereas 4 cores used to be the standard, now we are looking at moar cores... and likely for a reason. The 2500K was such a stud of a processor... I want that in 2019 parts, if you see what I mean.




Speaking of mobos... If I'm not going ITX (and I understand the reasoning not to do so) the biggest I would want to use would be mATX, so I could reuse my Fractal Define Mini. Unfortunately, Newegg lists exactly ONE mATX x570 board... is x570 so new, or has mATX fallen out of favor???

I knew about M2 SSDs, I've never heard of PCIe 4.0. I guess I'll have to look that up. And, Larry, I think you are right... I won't be putting anything more than a lower-end EVGA video card in. I'm also curious about why a SSD would throttle from heat... I thought that was one of the beauties of SSD's... no heat?

If it being an matx board is really important or critical don't get too hung up on having PCIE 4.0. I was just suggesting it because you own machines a long time (like I do, I am typing on a 10 year old machine). I was just saying pack as much new stuff in there as possible.
PCIE 4.0 doesn't bring that much to the table right now, it may be a better storage choice in the future but we aren't talking big gains regarding day to day typical use stuff. Probably a few seconds faster start up and few seconds faster large file transfers.
My point is if there is a B450 board or X470 board that is perfect in every way go for that over a 570 board that is mostly good.

 

[Charlie98]

If it being an matx board is really important or critical don't get too hung up on having PCIE 4.0. I was just suggesting it because you own machines a long time (like I do, I am typing on a 10 year old machine). I was just saying pack as much new stuff in there as possible.
PCIE 4.0 doesn't bring that much to the table right now, it may be a better storage choice in the future but we aren't talking big gains regarding day to day typical use stuff. Probably a few seconds faster start up and few seconds faster large file transfers.
My point is if there is a B450 board or X470 board that is perfect in every way go for that over a 570 board that is mostly good.

Question: What happened to mATX? As I mentioned... there is only 1 mATX x570 board, and ZERO x470's... at least on Newegg.

I'm assuming the big upgrade on the x570 vs the x470, is the PCIe 4.0?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Question: What happened to mATX? As I mentioned... there is only 1 mATX x570 board, and ZERO x470's... at least on Newegg.

I'm assuming the big upgrade on the x570 vs the x470, is the PCIe 4.0?

Yeah big thing is 4.0, side things are better power delivery for the monster chips like you may get and from what my amateurish research shows better memory support but I am not sure if that is due to the approved memory list being more current or if its actually something to do with the board. 570 boards appear to play nicer with all 4 slots of ram occupied.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Question: What happened to mATX? As I mentioned... there is only 1 mATX x570 board, and ZERO x470's... at least on Newegg.

I'm assuming the big upgrade on the x570 vs the x470, is the PCIe 4.0?

How about a B450 board? I think this one reviewed well and it has 4 dim slots.
This is an area I'm not particularly good in so toss my opinion aside if mark doesn't agree

https://www.newegg.com/msi-arsenal-gaming-b450m-bazooka-v2/p/N82E16813144232

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Question: What happened to mATX? As I mentioned... there is only 1 mATX x570 board, and ZERO x470's... at least on Newegg.

I'm assuming the big upgrade on the x570 vs the x470, is the PCIe 4.0?

Might have to do with the 570 boards needing a chipset fan, those take up space.
Also 570 boards target at high end gaming/enthusiast market. Those dudes don't seem too fired up to have small cases with small video cards.

 

[Flayed]

Question: What happened to mATX? As I mentioned... there is only 1 mATX x570 board, and ZERO x470's... at least on Newegg.

I'm assuming the big upgrade on the x570 vs the x470, is the PCIe 4.0?

My take on mATX is that it's not popular because aside from one or two exceptions, mATX cases are only a little bit smaller than ATX mid towers. If you want small go iTx.

 

[Charlie98]

Might have to do with the 570 boards needing a chipset fan, those take up space.
Also 570 boards target at high end gaming/enthusiast market. Those dudes don't seem too fired up to have small cases with small video cards.

My take on mATX is that it's not popular because aside from one or two exceptions, mATX cases are only a little bit smaller than ATX mid towers. If you want small go iTx.

Both of those make sense... It's sort of all or nothing, and I did notice the chipset fans. When I built my PC originally, I had a HAF922 case... gargantuan... and for my purposes it was stupid. Ever since I've been downsizing...

 

[Markfw]

Both of those make sense... It's sort of all or nothing, and I did notice the chipset fans. When I built my PC originally, I had a HAF922 case... gargantuan... and for my purposes it was stupid. Ever since I've been downsizing...

The reason for the x570 in your case is IO. For business apps, you should find that nice. The PCIE 4.0 doubles the IO speed if you get a good NVME, like the Corsair v4.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The reason for the x570 in your case is IO. For business apps, you should find that nice. The PCIE 4.0 doubles the IO speed if you get a good NVME, like the Corsair v4.

Wait.....
Am I understanding this right?

Even without a PCIE 4.0 drive the IO speed (stuff that connects other stuff in my understanding) is still faster and it still benefits things like big spreadsheets or some dumb animation application?

 

[Markfw]

Wait.....
Am I understanding this right?

Even without a PCIE 4.0 drive the IO speed (stuff that connects other stuff in my understanding) is still faster and it still benefits things like big spreadsheets or some dumb animation application?

"if you get a good NVME, like the Corsair v4. "
Its a PCIE v4 drive.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

"if you get a good NVME, like the Corsair v4. "
Its a PCIE v4 drive.

Ah I misunderstood

 

[Markfw]

Just to be clear, here it is (what I got anyway)
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-force-mp600-1tb/p/N82E16820236548?Item=N82E16820236548

 

[Flayed]

Just to be clear, here it is (what I got anyway)
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-force-mp600-1tb/p/N82E16820236548?Item=N82E16820236548

They are more reasonable priced in the US. Over here they retail for £250 to £270.

 

[Markfw]

They are more reasonable priced in the US. Over here they retail for £250 to £270.

All I can say to that, is the last 2 TB hard disk I got (spinner) was almost the same price as this 1 TB FAST NVME drive. I think the first Samsung 850, 250 gig SSD's were like $400.

Now its been a few years....

 

[Charlie98]

The reason for the x570 in your case is IO. For business apps, you should find that nice. The PCIE 4.0 doubles the IO speed if you get a good NVME, like the Corsair v4.

I'm a traditionalist... I still run 40GB WD HDD's...

Sorry, just kidding.

Jeepers, that thing smokes the M2 even...

Back to the CPU...

I'm curious, however... everyone seems to be split between the 3900x and the 3600x, is there anything wrong with 3700/3800x?

Just curious...

 

[Charlie98]

I think the first Samsung 850, 250 gig SSD's were like $400.

Actually, my first real SSD was a 256GB 840Pro, I think I paid something like $300 for it. It promptly died in about 7 months. I've since switched to either Intel or Crucial and have been happy as a pig in slop.

 

[UsandThem]

Back to the CPU...

I'm curious, however... everyone seems to be split between the 3900x and the 3600x, is there anything wrong with 3700/3800x?

Just curious...

There's no 3700. There's only a 3700X and 3800X.

if you are going to use an aftermarket cooler, there's little reason to get the 3800X (performance difference is too insignificant).

the 3700X is the best price/performance CPU that AMD offers in the 3*** series. $329 buys a while lot of performance for 95% of the users out there. There are plenty of reviews you can read to see how it compares to the 3900X, and you can decide if you're an user who would benefit from the extra cores.