Discussion Considering upgrading 2500K business PC (UPDATED)

[Charlie98]

RE: DESK in sig below.

Background: I built this computer in NOV of 2011 as my do-everything PC, where it has performed admirably. I have since split the gaming and HTPC duties off to new builds, so this is my primary business PC. It is still running W7, which I'm happy with, but the performance is a little lacking these days, which I'm not... and I don't really know if it's just a matter of older hardware with newer software. I've reloaded the OS several times, the current one is about 3 years old, and I have a new reload in the works now... but I wonder if it isn't time for a new build? I will say... this build has been as stable as any PC I've ever had, and one of the reasons I've run it as long as I have.

I have been completely out of circulation as far as computer tech for the past 4-5 years. except for upgrading RAM, GPU, and PSU, I haven't looked at anything since Haswell/Broadwell. My main purpose of this thread is to see if I even need to consider an upgrade for better performance, or am I just being picky about slower performance on a dated system.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Business computer... internet browsing, QB software, spreadsheets, DVD ripper, some amount of photo and audio editing (at a hobbiest level.)

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

This upgrade would not be budget driven... i.e. I don't care how much it costs, what I spend is based on the correct components to do the job. (EDIT: this does not mean I want to spend $6K on a new PC, it means I'll spend a reasonable amount on what would be a 2019/2020 equivalent to my 2011 2500K system, all things being equal.)

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA, either Newegg or, MicroCenter

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

I've always liked Intel, but as I understand it, AMD is the darling of the processor world right now. I like Gigabyte mobos, but have had good service from my Asus and ASRock boards, too. I am a Fractal case fanboy...

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Everything that I can bring over from my old build... SSDs, HDDs, PSU (but probably won't fit in ITX case,) GPU (same-same,) and optical drive (dunno.)

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I am running OC'ed right now, but it's not necessary for a business computer... assuming the performance is there.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

2x 1600x900 (19")

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

We are coming up on the magical Black Friday soon, probably not before then.

10. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?

This is also a big source of contention... moving to a new build will probably require me to go to W10, which I'm reluctant to do. I've dabbled with W10 and I don't like it. I understand W7 support is ending... I got that... and while it's not a big deal on my other PC's, data security is an issue on my business PC, and I understand the risks continuing with W7 after the sell-by date.

My thought is to build an ITX system with what is today's equivalent to my 2500K (either Intel or AMD, I don't care.) In real terms, my EVGA 760 is a dinosaur and very likely will be dropped, assuming the integrated graphics are capable, but I have to run twin monitors. I'm running 16K RAM now, which is totally adequate with the current system... would I need more with a new system?

I'm interested in comments for or against a new system... and what benefits there might be if I do.

 

[Flayed]

Only you can decide if you need more performance. At some point the motherboard may fail though if it's 8 years old. It might be best to get ahead of that happening.

 

[Charlie98]

Only you can decide if you need more performance. At some point the motherboard may fail though if it's 8 years old. It might be best to get ahead of that happening.

Yes and no... will upgrading the hardware actually provide a tangible performance increase? Would simply upgrading (inevitably) to W10 do the same with the existing hardware?

 

[Markfw]

You need to upgrade to win 10. The new Ryzen processor will not even run on W7. As for the system, I would not be attached to the ITX size, it limits your options and performance.

Now, as to the system, you have 2 needs as I see it, for photo, audio editing, a good CPU is needed with some cores. The other (and most importantly for business) is IO. If you get either a x570, or the new threadripper board (not sure when its coming out) and a nice v4 NVME SSD, your IO rate will be phenomenal. The new Corsair one TB I have is great, but mine is on a x470, so I am loosing a little speed. But even a gen3 NVME blows a normal sata SDD out of the water. So below is my tenative list (can change due to future parts)

1) x570 mobo. I have one, its an ASUS and was about $200. The PCIE4 will give you incredible IO speeds with a gen4 NVME
2) 3900x 12 core or 3950x 16 core. (when available)
3) I would go 32gig of ram, as needs continue, just do it now. 3600 speed, cl15 or cl14
4) For what you do, a Nvidia 2060 would probably do fine.
5) Being a business computer, to keep it quiet, an AIO (probably a 240) for cooling would be good.

As for the case and any other items, its up to prefs. I also am a fractal case fan.

 

[Iron Woode]

New hardware wants win 10. While AMD can use win 7 it sounds like it would be highly restricted.

Win 10 with Classic Shell installed does make it feel easier to deal with.

 

[Charlie98]

New hardware wants win 10. While AMD can use win 7 it sounds like it would be highly restricted.

Win 10 with Classic Shell installed does make it feel easier to deal with.

Well... and that's what I figured... in for a penny, in for a pound, with a new system anyway. I bought my daughter a W10 laptop a few years ago, I have Classic Shell installed on it... it's OK... just OK. Part of my reluctance to go to W10 is the abysmal problems some are STILL reporting on it... lost drives, lost files, and, of course, the data mining.

 

[Charlie98]

You need to upgrade to win 10. The new Ryzen processor will not even run on W7. As for the system, I would not be attached to the ITX size, it limits your options and performance.

Now, as to the system, you have 2 needs as I see it, for photo, audio editing, a good CPU is needed with some cores. The other (and most importantly for business) is IO. If you get either a x570, or the new threadripper board (not sure when its coming out) and a nice v4 NVME SSD, your IO rate will be phenomenal. The new Corsair one TB I have is great, but mine is on a x470, so I am loosing a little speed. But even a gen3 NVME blows a normal sata SDD out of the water. So below is my tenative list (can change due to future parts)

1) x570 mobo. I have one, its an ASUS and was about $200. The PCIE4 will give you incredible IO speeds with a gen4 NVME
2) 3900x 12 core or 3950x 16 core. (when available)
3) I would go 32gig of ram, as needs continue, just do it now. 3600 speed, cl15 or cl14
4) For what you do, a Nvidia 2060 would probably do fine.
5) Being a business computer, to keep it quiet, an AIO (probably a 240) for cooling would be good.

As for the case and any other items, its up to prefs. I also am a fractal case fan.

TBH, I had forgotten about M2 (and I guess NVME?) SSD's... I'm still living in 2012 with my SATA SSD's I'm guessing ITX would nix that? I'm not opposed to mATX, but the days of needing a big case... even something as small as a Define Mini... are over. With native USB 3.0 and integrated graphics, I wouldn't need more than 1 PCIE slot...

Remember, this isn't a gaming rig... generically speaking, unless I'm missing something (like having twin monitors) wouldn't IGPU be enough?

 

[Charlie98]

2) 3900x 12 core or 3950x 16 core. (when available)

And... please forgive me, I don't mean to sound trite... I need a $700 AMD processor to duplicate the performance of my $150 2500K???

 

[Flayed]

Yes and no... will upgrading the hardware actually provide a tangible performance increase? Would simply upgrading (inevitably) to W10 do the same with the existing hardware?

Photo editing would be quicker I imagine. Not sure what else, for basic office tasks a 2500k with an SSD is pretty capable. Running VBA scripts in Excel is very slow even on a 7700k.

 

[Flayed]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-9600K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($218.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG C7 40.5 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($179.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC Case ($78.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS SGX 450 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($69.98 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-F12 PWM 54.97 CFM 120 mm Fan ($19.95 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-F12 PWM 54.97 CFM 120 mm Fan ($19.95 @ Amazon)
Total: $767.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-02 13:48 EDT-0400

 

[VirtualLarry]

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

We are coming up on the magical Black Friday soon, probably not before then.

That far off? It's probably too early to give specific price-based part suggestions at this juncture.

My only recommendation, is to search out, and buy (right now, if you can) a Ryzen R9 3900X CPU. They are in short supply, I believe that the MSRP is $499. (Don't pay much more than MSRP.)

My reasoning is thus: It will form the basis of a next-gen PC, is very high-performance (we're talking better than a 9900K in productivity, and within a few percent in gaming), and there may be a small risk, however slight, if GF's lawsuit against TSMC's 7nm process technology gets an injunction, the supply of those CPUs might dry up entirely.

Then, watch for specials on X570 mobos, get some DDR4-3600 (or faster) RAM, and then finally, an NVMe SSD.

Oh yes, there's no integrated graphics on the Ryzen CPUs, so you'll need a dGPU too. If not gaming, get a GTX 1650ti or GTX 1660.

 

[Charlie98]

That far off? It's probably too early to give specific price-based part suggestions at this juncture.

That's why I labeled this a discussion thread... my ignorance is so complete right now, I don't even know what I'm looking at. In order to make an educated decision, I wanted to get peoples suggestion's so I can see why they are recommending them, and what benefit they might have in my particular instance.

Intel's model naming makes sense to me... AMD is all over the map, and because I'm not that familiar with AMD anyway, I want to make sure I make the right CPU and mobo choice.

That's the second recommendation for a $500+ CPU...

 

[Markfw]

That's why I labeled this a discussion thread... my ignorance is so complete right now, I don't even know what I'm looking at. In order to make an educated decision, I wanted to get peoples suggestion's so I can see why they are recommending them, and what benefit they might have in my particular instance.

Intel's model naming makes sense to me... AMD is all over the map, and because I'm not that familiar with AMD anyway, I want to make sure I make the right CPU and mobo choice.

That's the second recommendation for a $500+ CPU...

Its $500 (when available at retail) I bought 3 of them. The business cases you mentioned can all make use of the CPU. I found a mini ITX 570 motherboard, but you have to get a single slot video card, and thats really limiting. Also, then, only 2 memory slots. And the case for that will not support a 240 AIO.

Now, if you go ATX, this case (fractal design) I have 2 of them, both with 3900x's and 240 mm AIO's. Its NOT a big case.
https://www.newegg.com/gunmetal-gra...-tower/p/N82E16811352075?Item=N82E16811352075

One also has a CD burner in it, and both have 2060 video cards ! The 1660 that Larry mentioned may fit the bill, I don;t know your needs in that area as well.
Maybe that will fit your bill ? I have one in gray and one in blue.

This is the motherboard:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119197

This is the fast M.2 1 TB NVME drive:
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-force-mp600-1tb/p/N82E16820236548

Edit: One last thought. Your old system made if 8 years. If you want this one to do the same, you need PCIE 4.0 (AMD X570) you need a PCIE 4.0 NVME drive, and 12-15 cores is not too many. The $500 CPU is the same price as the Intel 9900k, and blows it out of the water on the apps you run. And if someone point out that in MS Word or something that Intel is faster, I say my how many milliseconds. The video and audio editing require cores, and IO speed. Well and memory speed.

 

[Flayed]

I'm disappointed no one has suggested an Intel Xeon W-3175X It would really make those spreadsheets fly!

 

[Markfw]

I'm disappointed no one has suggested an Intel Xeon W-3175X It would really make those spreadsheets fly!

We are actually trying to be helpful. Since he balked at the $500 CPU (even though he said price is no object in the OP), its obvious that he would never go for true HEDT (threadripper) or the Intel equivalent, so we are suggesting the next best thing, the 3900x. PCIE 4.0 will make more difference with a PCIE 4.0 NVME in a spreadsheet than a 3175x ($3,000 cpu ??)

I know you were probably kidding, but seriously, fast IO and a decent amount of cores for the win for many years to come.

Edit: and if he did want that much power, a $1800 2990wx would be a much better choice and faster than a 3175x.

 

[Flayed]

We are actually trying to be helpful. Since he balked at the $500 CPU (even though he said price is no object in the OP), its obvious that he would never go for true HEDT (threadripper) or the Intel equivalent, so we are suggesting the next best thing, the 3900x. PCIE 4.0 will make more difference with a PCIE 4.0 NVME in a spreadsheet than a 3175x ($3,000 cpu ??)

I know you were probably kidding, but seriously, fast IO and a decent amount of cores for the win for many years to come.

Edit: and if he did want that much power, a $1800 2990wx would be a much better choice and faster than a 3175x.

Yes I was kidding. I already made a helpful suggestion of a 9600k build. I believe anything more expensive would be a waste of money for the OPs stated use case.

 

[Markfw]

Yes I was kidding. I already made a helpful suggestion of a 9600k build. I believe anything more expensive would be a waste of money for the OPs stated use case.

Yea, I saw that. Its just that now that we have PCIE 4.0, and it doubles the IO rate, any Intel box (none have it) would handicap him. If money really is an object, he can get a $200 3600, a $250 3600x or $329 3700x.

@Charlie98 , I really think the 3900x is worth it, but if money is a concern, or you really can't go with 12 cores/24 threads, the 8 core 16 thread 3700x is quite formidable, and still PCIE 4.0 if you get the x570 motherboard. And as for the 9600k, the $200 3600 will beat it in the tasks you say for $20 less, and comes with a heatsink.

 

[Flayed]

Yea, I saw that. Its just that now that we have PCIE 4.0, and it doubles the IO rate, any Intel box (none have it) would handicap him. If money really is an object, he can get a $200 3600, a $250 3600x or $329 3700x.

I get that you are excited about new tech and all but outside of high scoring in benchmarks, how does a PCI-E 4 SSD really benefit the OP? In light IO loads a few percentage points faster? In heavy IO loads (not in the OPs use case) 10% faster?

 

[Ajay]

@Charlie98 , I really think the 3900x is worth it, but if money is a concern, or you really can't go with 12 cores/24 threads, the 8 core 16 thread 3700x is quite formidable, and still PCIE 4.0 if you get the x570 motherboard. And as for the 9600k, the $200 3600 will beat it in the tasks you say for $20 less, and comes with a heatsink.

I think a hexacore Intel or AMD would carry him for many years. @Markfw If he went with an AMD 3600, what would be a good option in terms of a well featured x470 board?

 

[Flayed]

And as for the 9600k, the $200 3600 will beat it in the tasks you say for $20 less, and comes with a heatsink.

I find myself less inclined to recommend the 3600 recently. What has been putting me off in no particular order:
Very long post times. If I've just built a new PC I want it to turn on quickly.
Poor minimum frame rates in particular games (Far Cry 5 among others)
Platform issues. I want stuff to work without hassle.
Wide variation of silicon lottery. Reports of some chips barely meeting their base clocks.

 

[Markfw]

I find myself less inclined to recommend the 3600 recently. What has been putting me off in no particular order:
Very long post times. If I've just built a new PC I want it to turn on quickly.
Poor minimum frame rates in particular games (Far Cry 5 among others)
Platform issues. I want stuff to work without hassle.
Wide variation of silicon lottery. Reports of some chips barely meeting their base clocks.

Post times ? on a business PC ? should not be a concern.
frame rates ? He said no gaming.
Platform issues ? I have seen none.
Silicon lottery ? he is not overclocking a business PC.

@Ajay I recommended the x570 for the fast IO, that will help in most business apps. The 3600 ? well thats up to him, if everyone thinks that will work, fine. I just saw "no budget" in the OP, and went with the reasonably fast 12 core/24 thread.

 

[UsandThem]

I find myself less inclined to recommend the 3600 recently. What has been putting me off in no particular order:
Very long post times. If I've just built a new PC I want it to turn on quickly.

That's not the norm for most users.

Poor minimum frame rates in particular games (Far Cry 5 among others)

The reviews I've seen don't show that.

Platform issues. I want stuff to work without hassle.

All new tech usually has some teething pains. At this point, most are gone.

Wide variation of silicon lottery. Reports of some chips barely meeting their base clocks.

Setting the "meeting their base clocks" aside, it's all about the performance. The latest article on Tom's about De8auer's findings show that most users who reported their results to him, found that

De8auer's survey obtained the performance data of 2,700 systems from users who were asked to run the single threaded benchmark on Cinebench R15 and record the maximum clock speed using HWInfo (which was recommended by AMD). Most users reported that they were not able to hit the advertised boost clock, though many were within 25 MHz.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...ing-advertised-boost-speeds-survey,40291.html

There's nothing wrong with recommending Intel based systems, but your concerns about AMD platforms are overblown (IMO).

 

[Flayed]

Perhaps some clarification on the budget from the OP is in order.

 

[Markfw]

Perhaps some clarification on the budget from the OP is in order.

In anticipation of that, I built a system with a 3700x (mid range) an x570 motherboard, the 1 tb PCIE 4.0 drive, 16 gig of 3600 cl15 ram, a Fractal case, and a 240 AIO, and lastly, a platinum EVGA PSU for $1611. Oh, and a 1660 video card.

If interested, I will add more details, but that is a FAST system for business.

 

[Flayed]

Reading his edited post he says he wants today's equivalent of a 2500k. I would take that as being either a 9600k or a 3600(x)