Conservatives should get weak on drugs

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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This was in my morning paper. Mostly it's nothing new, but for one statistic that I find rather amazing: The CATO Institute did a paper on the decriminalization of all drugs in Portugal last year and found that - wait for it - Portugal now has the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.

I've been a supporter of decriminalization for some time, but that factoid was surprising even to me. Perhaps it's finally time to stop the makework program that is the War On Drugs and get our fiscal - and social - houses in order.

Conservatives should get weak on drugs

In more than four decades since former U.S. president Richard Nixon first declared America's "War on Drugs," researchers from across scientific disciplines have been closely examining the impacts of law enforcement strategies aimed at controlling illicit drug use.

The findings clearly demonstrate that politically popular "get tough" approaches actually make the drug problem worse, fuel crime and violence, add to government deficits, rob the public purse of potential revenue, help spread disease and divide families.

In fact, the tough on crime approach takes its biggest toll on the traditional conservative wish list of fiscal discipline, low crime rates and strong families.

Chief among the public health concerns is the transmission of HIV among injection drug users. According to the UN Reference Group on HIV and Injection Drug Use, the largest numbers of drug injectors live in China, the U.S. and Russia. These three nations also have among the world's most punitive drug laws and lead the world in the number of incarcerated individuals.

The war on drugs has also had a devastating impact on families. Primarily as a result of drug law enforcement, one in eight African-American males in the age group 25 to 29 is incarcerated on any given day in the U.S., despite the fact that ethnic minorities consume illicit drugs at comparable rates to other subpopulations in the U.S.

In addition to the budgetary implications of this experiment, sociologists and criminologists are now describing the intergenerational effects of these policies on low-income families, as children left behind by incarcerated parents turn to gangs and the cycle continues.

The Cato Institute, a respected U.S. think tank, recently released a report on alternative drug policies. It specifically focused on Portugal, which several years ago parted ways with the U.S. and decriminalized all drugs so that resources could focus on prevention and treatment of drug use.

The Cato report demonstrates clearly how Portugal's policies have dramatically reduced HIV rates as drug addiction has been viewed as a health rather than criminal justice problem. In addition, Portugal now has the lowest rates of marijuana use in the European Union, with experts suggesting that the health focus has taken some of the glamour out of illegal drugs.

As Professor Friedman said, "If you look at the drug war from a purely economic point of view, the role of the government is to protect the drug cartel." Regardless of when the federal government re-tables plans to enact mandatory minimum sentences for drug law violations, Canadians should contact their MPs -- Conservative, Liberal or otherwise -- and let them know that they don't want tax dollars to be flushed into politically popular but ineffective drug-war schemes.

Excessive drug law enforcement and mandatory minimum sentences for drug law violations channel tax dollars from health and education, increase drug violence in the short term and will create negative impacts in the long-term by turning petty drug offenders into hard-core criminals.

Conservatives should look at this ongoing legacy in light of their traditional commitment to stronger families, economies and societies, and act accordingly.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
25
91
This has been painfully obvious to anyone familiar with thinking for quite some time.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
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Strange how "Gun Control" and "War On Drugs" both have the same effects. More crime and violence.
 
May 11, 2008
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Do not make one easy but wrong assumption.

It seems pure form the numbers the crime rate has gone down.
But what is the crime that has been committed ?
Are these crimes no more then smoking marijuana, getting caught by the police and fined ? Or are these crimes more serious matters ?
I think it is just getting caught and getting a fine.

And most people do not see this. They see hey, drugs are legalized, less crime. Solution : Let's legalize all forms of drugs and have no more drugs crimes.
And what is wrong with that view ? From smoking marijuana it is very unlikely (unless the person is prone to psychosis that may be triggered by the use of some brain altering substances like for example marijuana) are not going to rob people or commit other serious crimes. But when using cocaine or crystal meth or heroine to name a few examples it is possible people are going to commit serious crimes because of the mental degradation and the heavy addictive nature. And that is what is wrong and forgotten with the distorted view from many people who think that legalizing all drugs will reduce criminal activity. It is the wrong link and simplified. Marijuana itself will not promote crime for a very large group of individuals while afcourse not forgetting the always present exceptions. If a serious crime has been committed while stoned, the perpetrator needs to be psychologically tested.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
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Do not make one easy but wrong assumption.

It seems pure form the numbers the crime rate has gone down.
But what is the crime that has been committed ?
Are these crimes no more then smoking marijuana, getting caught by the police and fined ? Or are these crimes more serious matters ?
I think it is just getting caught and getting a fine.

And most people do not see this. They see hey, drugs are legalized, less crime. Solution : Let's legalize all forms of drugs and have no more drugs crimes.
And what is wrong with that view ? From smoking marijuana it is very unlikely (unless the person is prone to psychosis that may be triggered by the use of some brain altering substances like for example marijuana) are not going to rob people or commit other serious crimes. But when using cocaine or crystal meth or heroine to name a few examples it is possible people are going to commit serious crimes because of the mental degradation and the heavy addictive nature. And that is what is wrong and forgotten with the distorted view from many people who think that legalizing all drugs will reduce criminal activity. It is the wrong link and simplified. Marijuana itself will not promote crime for a very large group of individuals while afcourse not forgetting the always present exceptions. If a serious crime has been committed while stoned, the perpetrator needs to be psychologically tested.

Drug Users don't commit Crime because of Psychosis or other affects of the Drug(s). They Commit Crimes to Afford the Drug(s).
 
May 11, 2008
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Drug Users don't commit Crime because of Psychosis or other affects of the Drug(s). They Commit Crimes to Afford the Drug(s).

And that is the simple answer what i was already expecting. The hard drugs( not marijuana) are mind altering leading to a decline in cognitive functioning and a decline in moral behaviour. Anybody who says it is not lives in his own reality and is not aware of the change in personality people on drugs go through. Now extrapolate that thought while legalizing drugs, lowering prices, increasing the amounts of hard drugs used every day. And then try to convince me again that legalizing drugs will not harm society while everybody is using the whole day. You thought sickness was high now, wait until a not too large part of society is using because of the addictive behaviour. It will be fun to step on the bus with the driver just pulling out his cocaine crack pipe to go for a death ride to just come up with an example. What will happen to society if everybody gets less productive. It will be great for the kids when the wife is using heavy drugs while pregnant. Another thing, these drugs are highly addictive. Another reason why drug ADDICTS can not stop.

Some people...
:eek:D::thumbsdown:eek:_O
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
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And that is the simple answer what i was already expecting. The hard drugs( not marijuana) are mind altering leading to a decline in cognitive functioning and a decline in moral behaviour. Anybody who says it is not lives in his own reality and is not aware of the change in personality people on drugs go through. Now extrapolate that thought while legalizing drugs, lowering prices, increasing the amounts of hard drugs used every day. And then try to convince me again that legalizing drugs will not harm society while everybody is using the whole day. You thought sickness was high now, wait until a not too large part of society is using because of the addictive behaviour. It will be fun to step on the bus with the driver just pulling out his cocaine crack pipe to go for a death ride to just come up with an example. What will happen to society if everybody gets less productive. It will be great for the kids when the wife is using heavy drugs while pregnant. Another thing, these drugs are highly addictive. Another reason why drug ADDICTS can not stop.

Some people...
:eek:D::thumbsdown:eek:_O

Nah, that's just Incorrect and part of the BS that feeds the WoD.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
As far as marijuana is concerned, legalize the shit out of it for all I care. Regulate it like cigarettes and we're good.

The hard stuff can go fuck itself.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
And that is the simple answer what i was already expecting. The hard drugs( not marijuana) are mind altering leading to a decline in cognitive functioning and a decline in moral behaviour. Anybody who says it is not lives in his own reality and is not aware of the change in personality people on drugs go through. Now extrapolate that thought while legalizing drugs, lowering prices, increasing the amounts of hard drugs used every day. And then try to convince me again that legalizing drugs will not harm society while everybody is using the whole day. You thought sickness was high now, wait until a not too large part of society is using because of the addictive behaviour. It will be fun to step on the bus with the driver just pulling out his cocaine crack pipe to go for a death ride to just come up with an example. What will happen to society if everybody gets less productive. It will be great for the kids when the wife is using heavy drugs while pregnant. Another thing, these drugs are highly addictive. Another reason why drug ADDICTS can not stop.

Some people...
:eek:D::thumbsdown:eek:_O

Nah, that's just Incorrect and part of the BS that feeds the WoD.

So you are saying that Drug addicts can stop and get back to a normal life.

Then why do they continue?
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
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Nah, that's just Incorrect and part of the BS that feeds the WoD.

Didn't you hear? Illicit drugs, unlike nicotine, are addictive. And unlike alcohol, they alter your behavior. If drugs are legalized the roads will be full of coked up bus drivers running over children. Won't someone please think of the children?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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I have been advocating the right drop the whole war on drugs for years. But I am also for going one step further and legalizing drugs and regulating and taxing their sale.
 
May 11, 2008
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Nah, that's just Incorrect and part of the BS that feeds the WoD.

I will let reality speak for me. Live in your own reality. The drugs users that are still alive after a life time of using are only alive because of some genetic fluke.
Most will die early of various diseases like kidney failure or liver failure. And that is not even taking into account the higher chance of going paranoid or psychotic. You are always free to prove to me and everybody else that i am wrong. I have seen what loving good people turn into. I have seen the sadness and regret in their eyes when they have a clear moment. I have seen the happiness in the eyes of ex drugs addicts. I have heard the prayers of drug addicts to just be put into jail and taken their human rights away from them that they no longer have to go in search for drugs, because the drugs turning them into something they hate the most.

The only ones who benefit from the legalizing of drugs are the people who earn their money by selling drugs. And they do not really care what happens to people as long as they can make money. How do you earn your money ?

No the only thing not addictive (leaving out exceptions of some humans) is this :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051019003339.htm
And probably even beneficial when you use it right...
Cannabis Smoke Is Less Likely To Cause Cancer Than Tobacco Smoke
 
May 11, 2008
22,451
1,461
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Didn't you hear? Illicit drugs, unlike nicotine, are addictive. And unlike alcohol, they alter your behavior. If drugs are legalized the roads will be full of coked up bus drivers running over children. Won't someone please think of the children?

Nicotine is addictive. Alcohol the same. The difference is most people are puking their stomach inside out when drinking to much. A very good lesson for not drinking every day that much. But afcourse, alcohol does alter behaviour. But then again , some people need alcohol to get laid. That is, feed the girls drunk because when the girls are sober they have no interest. o_O

However , i am not even talking about the damage to the brain and the liver that occurs when drinking often... Go look it up.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
126
I will let reality speak for me. Live in your own reality. The drugs users that are still alive after a life time of using are only alive because of some genetic fluke.
Most will die early of various diseases like kidney failure or liver failure. And that is not even taking into account the higher chance of going paranoid or psychotic. You are always free to prove to me and everybody else that i am wrong. I have seen what loving good people turn into. I have seen the sadness and regret in their eyes when they have a clear moment. I have seen the happiness in the eyes of ex drugs addicts. I have heard the prayers of drug addicts to just be put into jail and taken their human rights away from them that they no longer have to go in search for drugs, because the drugs turning them into something they hate the most.

The only ones who benefit from the legalizing of drugs are the people who earn their money by selling drugs. And they do not really care what happens to people as long as they can make money. How do you earn your money ?

No the only thing not addictive (leaving out exceptions of some humans) is this :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051019003339.htm
And probably even beneficial when you use it right...

Dying is a Crime? No.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
So you are saying that Drug addicts can stop and get back to a normal life.

Then why do they continue?

That's off the point. Drugs don't induce people to Commit Crime.

Apparently people commit crimes because of Drugs.

Either under the influence or to obtain them.

If under the inlfuence, legalizing would make it worse.
If to obtain them; you hear stories of people on crack going out to get high, ignoring their families and/or abandoning them. So would legalizing help that - eliminate the irresponsibilty.

If a prostitute has to sell her body for a $20 hit; how much lower should the price be?
 
May 11, 2008
22,451
1,461
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That's off the point. Drugs don't induce people to Commit Crime.

Oh, no. Afcourse not. A good example : Some men being drunk never lost heir cognitive functions enough to not realize the women or girls did not wanted to have sex. Some men being drunk never lost their cognitive functions they clearly wanted to start fighting for no reason. People high on drugs are not exhibiting strange behaviour sometimes even dangerous to themselves or others . Cocaine addicts do not get egoistic and paranoid. Heroine addicts will not do anything to get rid of the awful pain they are experiencing. Women do not sell themselves because of the drugs but because they just want to be the sluts they are and drugs makes them feel so horny. You live in a substance created world...
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,715
6,266
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Apparently people commit crimes because of Drugs.

Either under the influence or to obtain them.

If under the inlfuence, legalizing would make it worse.
If to obtain them; you hear stories of people on crack going out to get high, ignoring their families and/or abandoning them. So would legalizing help that - eliminate the irresponsibilty.

If a prostitute has to sell her body for a $20 hit; how much lower should the price be?

Again, Irresponsibility is also not a Crime.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Wow, I went on Wikipedia to get some stats on alcolhol abuse and found this

"Excessive alcohol consumption in Russia, particularly by men, has in recent years caused more than half of all the deaths at ages 15-54 years."


They didn't give a percentage in the U.S. the CDC just had this:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, "From 2001–2005, there were approximately 79,000 deaths annually attributable to excessive alcohol use. In fact, excessive alcohol use is the 3rd leading lifestyle-related cause of death for people in the United States each year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol


That's twice as many alcohol deaths as automobile deaths!

I think we need to legalize cocaine and heroin just so people stop drinking so much alcohol.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Strange how "Gun Control" and "War On Drugs" both have the same effects. More crime and violence.

No cause-and effect relationship between Gun Control and crime/violence has been established, except in the minds of pro-gun fanatics with their usual red-neck-level knowledge of logic and reasoning.