Conservatives should get weak on drugs

[TwinsenTacquito]

WOD is supported by both political parties. I assume there's a Democrat somewhere that doesn't support it, somewhere. I know every Libertarian is against it. And I know they're all Republicans right now because of the climate. But there's not many of them.

 

[Blackjack200]

WOD is supported by both political parties. I assume there's a Democrat somewhere that doesn't support it, somewhere. I know every Libertarian is against it. And I know they're all Republicans right now because of the climate. But there's not many of them.

I think part of the problem is that in their zeal to MJ laws rolled back, activists tend to throw other drugs under the bus. You never seem to hear about how heroin is a safe drug, and less addictive than tobacco, or how LSD is non-addictive and non-toxic.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

It's that heroin is less addictive than nicotine, but you take larger quantities of it directly into your bloodstream, so it is far more addictive. It also has much harsher side effects because of the quantity. But shit, put it in your body and I'll just laugh at you, I don't care. The only issue I see with legalizing drugs is the potential DUI shit that's going to be more common.

Drug crime (the violence that occurs) is usually against others acting illegally in drug trafficking. That's going to pretty much all go away, but we'll see more DUI problems. You'll also see a lot less of the theft involved with drugs, which is good, because they don't steal from the drug trafficking world, they steal from "innocents". The price of the drugs goes down, that theft is going to go down.

They're going to have to make DUI punishment more severe for this to work. Probably go back to having DWI and DUI just so they can tear druggies a new one for risking everybody else's lives. :\ I don't even know the testing equipment they need to determine highness... blood sample for all of it, right? Sucks. Cops taking my blood. Oh well, it'd save a ton of money to stop people from doing something they're gonna do anyway.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Wow, I went on Wikipedia to get some stats on alcolhol abuse and found this




They didn't give a percentage in the U.S. the CDC just had this:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol


That's twice as many alcohol deaths as automobile deaths!

I think we need to legalize cocaine and heroin just so people stop drinking so much alcohol.

Well, be happy. Quality of life is a large influence on the decision to throw your life away when you feel you have no life or a future. The USSR really has not been that fun for many people. Vokda was a way to forget. Heroine is the way now for way to much people in the former USSR countries, for example take Russia. Remember the CIA promoting heroine production in Laos ? Being the primary drive behind the large production of heroine which ended up being used by a large number of American soldiers during the Vietnam war. The same CIA who worked together with the taliban and al Qaeda. The same taliban and al Qaeda who are responsible for the heroine production in Afghanistan. And you know what is strange ,opium is being grown and heroine is being produced while al nato countries know about it. And they do not do a damn thing about it. And a lot of that heroine ends up in Russia. It is almost impossible to not start to think how such amazing coincidences arise.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7935527.stm

"In recent years Russia has not just become massively hooked on Afghan opiates, it has also become the world's absolute leader in the opiate trade and the number one heroin consumer," he said in a report made available to reporters.

"Drug trafficking has become a key negative factor for demography and a blow to our nation's gene pool... [and] a challenge to Russia's civilisation."

The Russian health ministry says Russia has up to 2.5 million drug addicts out of a population of some 140 million, most of them aged between 18 and 39.

Mr Ivanov did not give details about which country Russia was thought to have displaced as the main heroin consumer.

The CND's World Drugs Report for 2008 reported that China was estimated to have about 2.3 million users of opiates, though how many of those used heroin was unclear.

War factor

Mr Ivanov said that in the first two months of this year, Russia had seized 400kg (880lb) of heroin - a 70% increase on the same period last year.


He said it was time for the international community to take action against Afghan narcotics by spraying poppies and offering farmers incentives to grow other crops.

Afghanistan is estimated to produce 93% of the world's heroin.

While not directly blaming the US-led coalition in Afghanistan for the worsening problem, Mr Ivanov said that Afghan farmers had used the tense military and political situation to plant opium poppies.

He also said patrolling the 7,000-km (4,375-mile) border with Kazakhstan, through which drugs arrive, was an impossible job.

 

[William Gaatjes]

William do you work in law enforcement?

No. I am not. I live on a world where many thing happen and i try to understand this world.

 

[BoberFett]

Wow, I went on Wikipedia to get some stats on alcolhol abuse and found this




They didn't give a percentage in the U.S. the CDC just had this:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol


That's twice as many alcohol deaths as automobile deaths!

I think we need to legalize cocaine and heroin just so people stop drinking so much alcohol.

79,000 per year? Sounds high, I'd like to see the actual source behind those numbers. Were they actually alcohol related or was the CDC just fulfilling some bureaucrat's agenda?

"This person died of a massive heart attack, but he did drink a few beers the night before, we'll call it an alcohol related death."

Similar things have been done for tobacco, so I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[William Gaatjes]

WOD is supported by both political parties. I assume there's a Democrat somewhere that doesn't support it, somewhere. I know every Libertarian is against it. And I know they're all Republicans right now because of the climate. But there's not many of them.

The war on drugs is a scam. Important people of your government (local state and nation wide) make a lot of money keeping a blind eye. Remember Bush senior and the Clinton's ? Different parties, same set of wrong friends...

 

[BoberFett]

No. I am not. I live on a world where many thing happen and i try to understand this world.

You're going to have to try harder, because you're failing miserably right now.

Anybody who wants to do drugs is already doing drugs. Legalize and the numbers won't change much. You might have a few more people try without becoming regular users.

The difference is that instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars in a WAR AGAINST OUR OWN COUNTRY (does that make sense? a war on our citizens?) we can treat it as a medical problem far more cheaply.

 

[Fern]

I think most people can agree that discouraging drug use, esp excessive use, is good national policy.

But the real question is what approach should be employed to that end?

The current 'WoD' strategy seems questionable as to it's effectiveness, is very costly in terms of funds and other resources, has created an environment for violent criminal activity and caused tremendous problems for border security and our Mexican neighbors.

Accordingly, a re-thinking of that policy for marijuana seems reasonable if not prudent.

Fern

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

The war on drugs is a scam. Important people of your government (local state and nation wide) make a lot of money keeping a blind eye. Remember Bush senior and the Clinton's ? Different parties, same set of wrong friends...

If you make it that high, most likely it's because of "wrong friends". Sigh.

 

[William Gaatjes]

You're going to have to try harder, because you're failing miserably right now.

Anybody who wants to do drugs is already doing drugs. Legalize and the numbers won't change much. You might have a few more people try without becoming regular users.

The difference is that instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars in a WAR AGAINST OUR OWN COUNTRY (does that make sense? a war on our citizens?) we can treat it as a medical problem far more cheaply.

Ignorant.. Look close at human history and try to think about you just have written. As long as it is possible humans in this world are born with a genetic disease that makes a lot of them vulnerable, you are wrong. As long as this world you live on is not a perfect heaven for humans because of humans, people will always try to run away from reality, you are wrong. You fail to see what happens when a few generations in a row use these kind of poisons. Epi-genetics...

 

[William Gaatjes]

I think most people can agree that discouraging drug use, esp excessive use, is good national policy.

But the real question is what approach should be employed to that end?

The current 'WoD' strategy seems questionable as to it's effectiveness, is very costly in terms of funds and other resources, has created an environment for violent criminal activity and caused tremendous problems for border security and our Mexican neighbors.

Accordingly, a re-thinking of that policy for marijuana seems reasonable if not prudent.

Fern

The reason why it cost so much is because your police are fighting a war against people who are being helped or have been helped in the past by very powerful people from your own government. Look at where for example cocaine comes from. Who produces it and why ? Look at history and the present. Look at past political motives and what evolved over time.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Ignorant.. Look close at human history and try to think about you just have written. As long as it is possible humans in this world are born with a genetic disease that makes a lot of them vulnerable, you are wrong. As long as this world you live on is not a perfect heaven for humans because of humans, people will always try to run away from reality, you are wrong. You fail to see what happens when a few generations in a row use these kind of poisons. Epi-genetics...

Ok here's the deal, you are full of shit. Drugs and alcohol have been with us for an awful long time and the human race is kicking around just fine. Drugs are fine, booze is fine regardless of your delusional philosophy.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Ok here's the deal, you are full of shit. Drugs and alcohol have been with us for an awful long time and the human race is kicking around just fine. Drugs are fine, booze is fine regardless of your delusional philosophy.

Says the future junkie.

No just making fun of you along while you make fun of yourself, you forget the powerful force religion has been as having social structures to maintain a certain view. Go on. i know you will understand sooner or later... You are as dumb as all the other people who say drugs can freely distributed without any effect on society and while disregarding how easy it is to start using drugs when any person have convinced his or herself there is no future. I will see you in the next major depression. Time is on my side...

 

[piasabird]

So why dont you do a study on the number of people in California over 15 that smoke the funnyweed or use medical marijuana? Do some actual research in the USA.

Personally I think we should just give up on Marijuana and completely decriminalize it. Medical marijuana is just a scam. How many people that use medical marijuana in California actually have a real medical need for it? This is why I think we should just decriminalize it in all 50 states. If everyone could grow in in their back yard, then there would be no need to sell it and chase down all the criminals. Just tax the hell out of it.

Cant wait to see some talk shows discuss growing the plants in your back yard. Or how to dry it out properly. It will become Blase if you can buy it in any dime store or Quicktrip.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Says the future junkie.

No just making fun of you along while you make fun of yourself, you forget the powerful force religion has been as having social structures to maintain a certain view. Go on. i know you will understand sooner or later... You are as dumb as all the other people who say drugs can freely distributed without any effect on society and while disregarding how easy it is to start using drugs when any person have convinced his or herself there is no future. I will see you in the next major depression. Time is on my side...

People with no future jump off bridges.

 

[Blackjack200]

So why dont you do a study on the number of people in California over 15 that smoke the funnyweed or use medical marijuana? Do some actual research in the USA.

Personally I think we should just give up on Marijuana and completely decriminalize it. Medical marijuana is just a scam. How many people that use medical marijuana in California actually have a real medical need for it? This is why I think we should just decriminalize it in all 50 states. If everyone could grow in in their back yard, then there would be no need to sell it and chase down all the criminals. Just tax the hell out of it.

Cant wait to see some talk shows discuss growing the plants in your back yard. Or how to dry it out properly. It will become Blase if you can buy it in any dime store or Quicktrip.

Why do we need to tax the hell out of it? I've never understood this part of the argument. And I don't mean to pick on you; everyone else says it too.

"legalize it and tax it"

??

Why?

 

[xj0hnx]

So you are saying that Drug addicts can stop and get back to a normal life.

Then why do they continue?

Yes, they can, and quite a few have, I know a bunch of former crackheads, junkies, etc that have kicked and gone on to live productive lives.

I will let reality speak for me. Live in your own reality. The drugs users that are still alive after a life time of using are only alive because of some genetic fluke.
Most will die early of various diseases like kidney failure or liver failure. And that is not even taking into account the higher chance of going paranoid or psychotic. You are always free to prove to me and everybody else that i am wrong. I have seen what loving good people turn into. I have seen the sadness and regret in their eyes when they have a clear moment. I have seen the happiness in the eyes of ex drugs addicts. I have heard the prayers of drug addicts to just be put into jail and taken their human rights away from them that they no longer have to go in search for drugs, because the drugs turning them into something they hate the most.

The only ones who benefit from the legalizing of drugs are the people who earn their money by selling drugs. And they do not really care what happens to people as long as they can make money. How do you earn your money ?

No the only thing not addictive (leaving out exceptions of some humans) is this :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051019003339.htm
And probably even beneficial when you use it right...

The problem with your FUD is that most of it is caused by the demonization of drugs, and drug addicts compounding the already troubled emotional state of the people that choose to do drugs as an escape. Also doing drugs doesn't give you a disease in general, things like sharing needles, and the general lack of proper health practices often exhibited by addicts does, as well as adulterants added to them.

And as far as

The only ones who benefit from the legalizing of drugs are the people who earn their money by selling drugs.

Bullshit. If they were legal than the people that control them now would NOT benefit ...at all. Society at large would benefit from at the least decriminalization. Not only would they offer a wealth of new taxes, lower the spread of disease, but also it would free up our prisons, and over burdened judicial system from largely non-violent offenders, as well as offer a route of physical and mental help for people that want to get off. As it is right now an expensive rehab, prison, or death is the only option for some people.

Apparently people commit crimes because of Drugs.

Either under the influence or to obtain them.

If under the inlfuence, legalizing would make it worse.

How do you figure crimes committed under the influence would be worse if they were legal? Most studies point to a drop in overall drug use when they are made legal, so you'd actually more than likely have less crime.

 

[William Gaatjes]

So why dont you do a study on the number of people in California over 15 that smoke the funnyweed or use medical marijuana? Do some actual research in the USA.

Personally I think we should just give up on Marijuana and completely decriminalize it. Medical marijuana is just a scam. How many people that use medical marijuana in California actually have a real medical need for it? This is why I think we should just decriminalize it in all 50 states. If everyone could grow in in their back yard, then there would be no need to sell it and chase down all the criminals. Just tax the hell out of it.

I am not writing about marijuana. Legalize marijuana. It will not do any real harm. But do not legalize ever any other form of the real addictive drugs.I am distinctively making a discrimination between marijuana and the heavier addictive or in any other way damaging drugs.
I can tell you that a lot of people who use alcohol in the weekend as a means to release and to keep enjoying life are better of smoking a good joint once in a while. If somebody gets addicted to marijuana, get that person a psychological test, he or she has a problem. I promise you that. It is shown from research marijuana can be beneficial even to forget traumatic memories. But as always do not over do it wen using. The mechanism that alters the parts of your brain for storing/sustaining memory is influenced by the ingredients of marijuana. It is easy to see that to much use alters the way your brain functions. Some actually benefit by this because of some genetic fluke. But do not count on it, you are one of them.

 

[Blackjack200]

I am not writing about marijuana. Legalize marijuana. It will not do any real harm. But do not legalize ever any other form of the real addictive drugs.I am distinctively making a discrimination between marijuana and the heavier addictive or in any other way damaging drugs.
I can tell you that a lot of people who use alcohol in the weekend as a means to release and to keep enjoying life are better of smoking a good joint once in a while. If somebody gets addicted to marijuana, get that person a psychological test, he or she has a problem. I promise you that. It is shown from research marijuana can be beneficial even to forget traumatic memories. But as always do not over do it wen using. The mechanism that alters the parts of your brain for storing/sustaining memory is influenced by the ingredients of marijuana. It is easy to see that to much use alters the way your brain functions. Some actually benefit by this because of some genetic fluke. But do not count on it, you are one of them.

Don't you see this as inconsistent though? Alcohol and tobacco are both toxic, and they are both addictive. Why should other toxic and addictive drugs be illegal? Or do you think tobacco and alcohol should be illegal as well.

 

[xj0hnx]

The war on drugs is a scam. Important people of your government (local state and nation wide) make a lot of money keeping a blind eye. Remember Bush senior and the Clinton's ? Different parties, same set of wrong friends...

"Blind eye" nothing, federal, state, and local governments are raking in billions per year keeping drugs illegal. The WoD lines a lot of pockets. The real problem with that is that it isn't doing ANYTHING to curb drug use ...at all.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Yes, they can, and quite a few have, I know a bunch of former crackheads, junkies, etc that have kicked and gone on to live productive lives.

There are always a lucky few. I am glad for them and hope they will never be tempted again and fall back.

The problem with your FUD is that most of it is caused by the demonization of drugs, and drug addicts compounding the already troubled emotional state of the people that choose to do drugs as an escape.

I am not demonizing drug addicts. Drug addicts must be helped , not punished. Most if not al drug addicts are mental patient or people who have trouble coming along and keeping up with the rest of society. Help them, do not punish them.

Also doing drugs doesn't give you a disease in general, things like sharing needles, and the general lack of proper health practices often exhibited by addicts does, as well as adulterants added to them.

And as far as

Afcourse drugs do not give you diseases. But continuous drugs use wear you down, consuming all of the natural repair mechanisms of your body. Nobody on drugs can keep going, something will break, if it is the mind or the body or both is not important. Something will break and cease to function properly. Afcourse exceptions always exist. But how do you know you are the exception. You really want to try and find out ?

Bullshit. If they were legal than the people that control them now would NOT benefit ...at all. Society at large would benefit from at the least decriminalization. Not only would they offer a wealth of new taxes, lower the spread of disease, but also it would free up our prisons, and over burdened judicial system from largely non-violent offenders, as well as offer a route of physical and mental help for people that want to get off. As it is right now an expensive rehab, prison, or death is the only option for some people.

You want to make drugs cheaper but you want to tax them. In effect you want to make money while other people get addicted. If you really think that works, legalize crack or crystal meth. You will make a lot of money but keep living around these people, so you experience what you will have accomplished. No good comes when people start to think with the instincts or emotions alone. Drugs take the cognitive mind away. Something you all fail to see.

How do you figure crimes committed under the influence would be worse if they were legal? Most studies point to a drop in overall drug use when they
are made legal, so you'd actually more than likely have less crime.

The crimes will become more frequent. And when legalizing heavy addictive drugs, the mind altering effects will get stronger over time because the drugs get more pure and altered to have more effect . And psychological effects will get worse. The crimes will get worse. The end results will get worse. Especially in a country where guns are so easy to get. But that does not really matter. The altered minds will do the trick.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Don't you see this as inconsistent though? Alcohol and tobacco are both toxic, and they are both addictive. Why should other toxic and addictive drugs be illegal? Or do you think tobacco and alcohol should be illegal as well.

Tobacco may be banned this minute. I will tell you some ironic history. While here in the USA it was promoted that real men chew or smoke tobacco, The germans before the WW2 began, where banning tobacco because they already knew it was releasing carcinogens when smoked or chewed.
Did you know the male models for the marlboro man died of lung cancer ? ^_^

Alcohol will be less interesting when people can smoke a joint once in a while without being seen as a criminal. Alcohol can be banned for a ll i care. I have used it occasionally, even been a hell of a comedian while effected by alcohol, but always have kept certain limits on my behaviour towards other people. But it does not mean i would loose a day of sleep it if was banned from this moment. I hardly consume it because i prefer a proper situation for it like for example celebration. My body is not born perfect. I like everybody else, have to take good care of it or my body will not be a good means of transport.

 

[ShawnD1]

No cause-and effect relationship between Gun Control and crime/violence has been established, except in the minds of pro-gun fanatics with their usual red-neck-level knowledge of logic and reasoning.

That's the whole point. If controlling guns did not reduce crime in any way, then it's a stupid bullshit law that doesn't do anything. They've been saying this for decades.

Yes, they can, and quite a few have, I know a bunch of former crackheads, junkies, etc that have kicked and gone on to live productive lives.

I bet I can prove you wrong! Here are 2 former cocaine users who are nothing less than terrible:

(George Bush 2)

(Obama)

Why do we need to tax the hell out of it? I've never understood this part of the argument. And I don't mean to pick on you; everyone else says it too.

"legalize it and tax it"

??

Why?

I think it's mostly to keep the costs high so people don't go too crazy with drugs. For example, when we were talking about ethanol powered cars, estimates for the cost of ethanol were something like $5 per gallon. How much is ethanol that you buy for drinking? I know it's cheaper in the US but in Canada it's insanely expensive, about $20 for a 26 ounce bottle of low quality vodka that is 40% pure. Let's work that out per gallon:
$20/26 ounce * 128 ounces/gallon * (1/0.4 purity)= $246 per gallon
That means the effective taxation on alcohol (where I live) is close to 5000%
Cigarettes are roughly the same level of taxation - several thousand percent.

How much would tax-free cocaine cost? This is actually very easy to estimate because cocaine is similar to caffeine in terms of where it comes from and how it can be extracted. Caffeine is about $0.50 per gram. Worst case scenario, let's double that to make an even $1 per gram. You could get high as fuck for $1.
If we apply Canada's standard 5000% "fuck you" tax, it would be about $50 to get high..... so it could potentially go up in price D:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Again, Irresponsibility is also not a Crime.

The impact on society may be enough.

DUI is a crime because of the impact on society.