Conservatives should get weak on drugs

[William Gaatjes]

People with no future jump off bridges.

No people who claim to want to commit suicide want attention for their problems. People flee on drugs because they do not want to die, they want hope, a future while have convinced themselves there is no future and thought they found temporary bliss while living a wild life. For many mental disorders drugs actually seems to help , but afcourse the addictive nature makes the life far worse. Look at the side effects of some medicine for example. If people really are going to commit suicide , they already have decided, given up on life and failed to see any other solution and made up their mind, future or no future.

 

[Fern]

The reason why it cost so much is because your police are fighting a war against people who are being helped or have been helped in the past by very powerful people from your own government. Look at where for example cocaine comes from. Who produces it and why ? Look at history and the present. Look at past political motives and what evolved over time.

Sounds like you're identifying another negative, albeit unintended, consequence of the current WoD - the potential for political corruption.

Fern

 

[William Gaatjes]

Sounds like you're identifying another negative, albeit unintended, consequence of the current WoD - the potential for political corruption.

Fern

Call it what you like. I do not call it corruption. I call it politics. Politics can have an ugly side as well as a pretty side. Politics can be bad decisions based on inherently flawed idea's. But it is still politics.

Edit :

Now i must return to my coffin. Good day.

 

[Mani]

Doubt a hell of a lot of republican politicians have an ideological problem with decriminalizing drugs, it's the interests they are in bed with like pharma and private prisons that do.

 

[ShawnD1]

For many mental disorders drugs actually seems to help , but afcourse the addictive nature makes the life far worse.

This is completely wrong. Drugs are addictive because they improve your life while you are taking them.

Classic example of this is nicotine. I cannot tolerate nicotine most of the time because it makes me very sick and disoriented; the only time I can smoke is when I'm drinking. I will never be addicted to this drug because it makes me feel horrible. Other people are attracted to this drug because it helps them tremendously. Schizophrenics, for example, are often chain smokers. Why? I'll let scientists explain that:
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2008/10/14-04.html

When it comes to cigarettes, schizophrenics just can't seem to get enough. They're two to three times more likely to smoke than the general population, and patients have been known to puff through up to four packs a day. New research on mice may explain this behavior: Nicotine spurs the production of a key neural protein that's scarce in schizophrenics--and that may help relieve their symptoms

They smoke because smoking helps? No shit. Next we'll figure out sex is fun or that food tastes good. Humans don't just randomly do things. Everyone knows this.

Almost every incidence of drug abuse can be directly attributed to an underlying medical problem.
smoking - schizophrenia and many other illnesses drive people to smoke
alcoholism - very strong correlation between this and hypoglycemia
coffee and other stimulants - people who are addicted to coffee often have a deviated septum, severe allergies, or other conditions that lead to sleep apnea. Stimulants mask how tired they are due to a lack of sleep.
marijuana - often abused to treat chronic pain or an overly sensitive nervous system

This concept of cause and effect shouldn't really come as a shock to anyone. Why do so many people enjoy marijuana while I personally feel sick after smoking it? It treats medical problems other people have that I do not have. Smoking usually makes me feel sick, but some people smoke every 30 minutes because they feel so much better after smoking. I love coffee, but my dad swears that it makes him jittery even if he has only 1 cup. While drugs will always hit the same receptors in humans, not every human has the same response to that. A person with low levels of dopamine would probably love cocaine, but a schizophrenic would probably hate cocaine. The addictiveness depends on whether or not that drug makes you feel better.

 

[MotF Bane]

No cause-and effect relationship between Gun Control and crime/violence has been established, except in the minds of pro-gun fanatics with their usual red-neck-level knowledge of logic and reasoning.

Ooo, excellent post. No cause and effect relationship between gun control and crime/violence has been established, except in the minds of anti-gun fanatics with their usual ignorant fear and terror of inanimate objects.

Two can play at that game. :awe:

 

[xj0hnx]

I am not demonizing drug addicts.

I didn't say you were demonizing them, I said that the demonization by society compounds the already fragile state of the drug addicts perception, and state of problems facing them.

Afcourse drugs do not give you diseases. But continuous drugs use wear you down, consuming all of the natural repair mechanisms of your body. Nobody on drugs can keep going, something will break, if it is the mind or the body or both is not important. Something will break and cease to function properly. Afcourse exceptions always exist. But how do you know you are the exception. You really want to try and find out ?

The same can be said of a LOT of things, stress, overworking, dangerous sports, as well as the unhealthy diet that Americans have developed.

You want to make drugs cheaper but you want to tax them. In effect you want to make money while other people get addicted.

So what? It's the same thing as cigarettes, and alcohol, as well as prescription medications. And there's no reason that they can not be made cheap enough as to offset the tax, and still keep them affordable to the point of people not having to rob for them. Of course that is only one avenue, another would be maintenance programs such as methadone where the cost of the program is affordable to addicts, but focuses on getting them off the drugs, or at least down to a maintainable level of usage. Of course even I don't see a way to viably legalize the harder drugs, and don't necessarily support their ready availability, but I do support decriminalization at least.

If you really think that works, legalize crack or crystal meth. You will make a lot of money but keep living around these people, so you experience what you will have accomplished. No good comes when people start to think with the instincts or emotions alone. Drugs take the cognitive mind away. Something you all fail to see.

I don't fail to see anything, lots of those mental problem stems from it being illegal, and the condemnation by society on drug users, coupled with already weakened emotional state makes for a bad time. Like I said before things like crack, and meth wouldn't really be able to be legalized and sold as an over the counter recreational drug like alcohol or weed, but in a decriminalized, more controlled setting maybe. Of course they would all be controlled, and regulated in the same way that alcohol is now, obviously public intoxication, and DUI would be problematic, but not specific to those alone. Just getting rid the criminality of possession and removing the black market value would have a tremendous positive impact on society. You can look at it as "well we'd have a nation of drug addicts", which I think is far from the truth (more specifically that it wouldn't necessarily be any worse), or you can realize that we already have a nation of drug addicts, and violence associated with drug trafficking, and distribution, as well as swollen, over burdened prison system.

The crimes will become more frequent.

Have any proof of that?

And when legalizing heavy addictive drugs, the mind altering effects will get stronger over time because the drugs get more pure and altered to have more effect.

That is just patently false. As it is now drugs are not regulated for content whatsoever. Dealers use whatever they can find to cut drugs, and their inconsistency in potency has caused many overdoses. Instead of using more stable chemicals for processing things like diesel, battery acid, and other toxic chemicals are used.

And psychological effects will get worse. The crimes will get worse. The end results will get worse. Especially in a country where guns are so easy to get. But that does not really matter. The altered minds will do the trick.

More speculation without any data. The problem with your speculation is that there are already copious amounts of narcotics in this country, and they are controlled by criminals, just using and having drugs makes people de facto criminals. Your babbling would make sense if there weren't already tons of drugs on the streets, and tons of drug related crime, but you seem to be pretending that all this doesn't already exist.

 

[xj0hnx]

Doubt a hell of a lot of republican politicians have an ideological problem with decriminalizing drugs, it's the interests they are in bed with like pharma and private prisons that do.

Can it you partisan hack, democrats are just as in bed with big pharma, and the current debacle of a justice system as republicans.

 

[ShawnD1]

Doubt a hell of a lot of republican politicians have an ideological problem with decriminalizing drugs, it's the interests they are in bed with like pharma and private prisons that do.

Prisons benefit from the war on drugs but drug companies do not. Think of how much money a company like Pfizer or Merck could make if amphetamines like Adderall and Dexedrine did not require a prescription. Anyone could buy anything in any amount. Amphetamine would be the new caffeine. It would be bigger than caffeine. It would be sold in every drug store, every 7-11, on every university campus. It would make more money than cigarettes, alcohol, and porn combined.

If they ever legalize cocaine or amphetamine, I'm throwing all of my money into drug companies. I'll be able to retire when I'm 40.

edit
Starbucks makes money by selling caffeine drinks to caffeine junkies and hipsters. Their stock is doing pretty well since going public in 1992.
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:SBUX
When coke is legal, I'll start a company called Cocainebucks. It's like Starbucks but we use decaffeinated coffee and we put cocaine in the coffee.

 

[William Gaatjes]

This is completely wrong. Drugs are addictive because they improve your life while you are taking them.

Classic example of this is nicotine. I cannot tolerate nicotine most of the time because it makes me very sick and disoriented; the only time I can smoke is when I'm drinking. I will never be addicted to this drug because it makes me feel horrible. Other people are attracted to this drug because it helps them tremendously. Schizophrenics, for example, are often chain smokers. Why? I'll let scientists explain that:
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2008/10/14-04.html

They smoke because smoking helps? No shit. Next we'll figure out sex is fun or that food tastes good. Humans don't just randomly do things. Everyone knows this.

You use your intolerance for smoking while sober as a general argument that fits the entire population ? Think again.

Almost every incidence of drug abuse can be directly attributed to an underlying medical problem.
smoking - schizophrenia and many other illnesses drive people to smoke
alcoholism - very strong correlation between this and hypoglycemia
coffee and other stimulants - people who are addicted to coffee often have a deviated septum, severe allergies, or other conditions that lead to sleep apnea. Stimulants mask how tired they are due to a lack of sleep.
marijuana - often abused to treat chronic pain or an overly sensitive nervous system

I have already mentioned that most people use drugs for a reason in my other posts. Another reason is that some genetic fluke arises which the person would have never known about if they did not use drugs. You all fail to see how the human brain works and why there is a reward system. Trick this system and you just might find yourself after a while in a situation you do not want to be. But you are hardwired now and the cravings haunt you. Have a nice life. There are always exceptions , but how do you you are the exception ?

This concept of cause and effect shouldn't really come as a shock to anyone. Why do so many people enjoy marijuana while I personally feel sick after smoking it? It treats medical problems other people have that I do not have. Smoking usually makes me feel sick, but some people smoke every 30 minutes because they feel so much better after smoking. I love coffee, but my dad swears that it makes him jittery even if he has only 1 cup. While drugs will always hit the same receptors in humans, not every human has the same response to that. A person with low levels of dopamine would probably love cocaine, but a schizophrenic would probably hate cocaine. The addictiveness depends on whether or not that drug makes you feel better.

Addictive nature of drugs can have many reasons. But you forget that the pleasure and the side effects do not always have to be the same. All you people forget that when you for example use a medicine to reduce pain, this medicine always has some side effect because you are messing with a chemically balanced system. People with an chemical unbalance might worsen the effect or reduce the effect or a combination of both of the chemical unbalance.
Do not forget you are not alone in the world. Looking only from your own perspective is kind of limiting with these kind of subjects.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Do not make one easy but wrong assumption.

It seems pure form the numbers the crime rate has gone down.
But what is the crime that has been committed ?
Are these crimes no more then smoking marijuana, getting caught by the police and fined ? Or are these crimes more serious matters ?
I think it is just getting caught and getting a fine.

And most people do not see this. They see hey, drugs are legalized, less crime. Solution : Let's legalize all forms of drugs and have no more drugs crimes.
And what is wrong with that view ? From smoking marijuana it is very unlikely (unless the person is prone to psychosis that may be triggered by the use of some brain altering substances like for example marijuana) are not going to rob people or commit other serious crimes. But when using cocaine or crystal meth or heroine to name a few examples it is possible people are going to commit serious crimes because of the mental degradation and the heavy addictive nature. And that is what is wrong and forgotten with the distorted view from many people who think that legalizing all drugs will reduce criminal activity. It is the wrong link and simplified. Marijuana itself will not promote crime for a very large group of individuals while afcourse not forgetting the always present exceptions. If a serious crime has been committed while stoned, the perpetrator needs to be psychologically tested.

And that is the simple answer what i was already expecting. The hard drugs( not marijuana) are mind altering leading to a decline in cognitive functioning and a decline in moral behaviour. Anybody who says it is not lives in his own reality and is not aware of the change in personality people on drugs go through. Now extrapolate that thought while legalizing drugs, lowering prices, increasing the amounts of hard drugs used every day. And then try to convince me again that legalizing drugs will not harm society while everybody is using the whole day. You thought sickness was high now, wait until a not too large part of society is using because of the addictive behaviour. It will be fun to step on the bus with the driver just pulling out his cocaine crack pipe to go for a death ride to just come up with an example. What will happen to society if everybody gets less productive. It will be great for the kids when the wife is using heavy drugs while pregnant. Another thing, these drugs are highly addictive. Another reason why drug ADDICTS can not stop.

Some people...
D::thumbsdown_O

I will let reality speak for me. Live in your own reality. The drugs users that are still alive after a life time of using are only alive because of some genetic fluke.
Most will die early of various diseases like kidney failure or liver failure. And that is not even taking into account the higher chance of going paranoid or psychotic. You are always free to prove to me and everybody else that i am wrong. I have seen what loving good people turn into. I have seen the sadness and regret in their eyes when they have a clear moment. I have seen the happiness in the eyes of ex drugs addicts. I have heard the prayers of drug addicts to just be put into jail and taken their human rights away from them that they no longer have to go in search for drugs, because the drugs turning them into something they hate the most.

The only ones who benefit from the legalizing of drugs are the people who earn their money by selling drugs. And they do not really care what happens to people as long as they can make money. How do you earn your money ?

No the only thing not addictive (leaving out exceptions of some humans) is this :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051019003339.htm
And probably even beneficial when you use it right...

Nicotine is addictive. Alcohol the same. The difference is most people are puking their stomach inside out when drinking to much. A very good lesson for not drinking every day that much. But afcourse, alcohol does alter behaviour. But then again , some people need alcohol to get laid. That is, feed the girls drunk because when the girls are sober they have no interest.

However , i am not even talking about the damage to the brain and the liver that occurs when drinking often... Go look it up.

Oh, no. Afcourse not. A good example : Some men being drunk never lost heir cognitive functions enough to not realize the women or girls did not wanted to have sex. Some men being drunk never lost their cognitive functions they clearly wanted to start fighting for no reason. People high on drugs are not exhibiting strange behaviour sometimes even dangerous to themselves or others . Cocaine addicts do not get egoistic and paranoid. Heroine addicts will not do anything to get rid of the awful pain they are experiencing. Women do not sell themselves because of the drugs but because they just want to be the sluts they are and drugs makes them feel so horny. You live in a substance created world...

Perhaps Robin Williams can increase your intelligence :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIWB-Neyj-c&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpGtgZw5Z_U&feature=related

No cause-and effect relationship between Gun Control and crime/violence has been established, except in the minds of pro-gun fanatics with their usual red-neck-level knowledge of logic and reasoning.

Ignorant.. Look close at human history and try to think about you just have written. As long as it is possible humans in this world are born with a genetic disease that makes a lot of them vulnerable, you are wrong. As long as this world you live on is not a perfect heaven for humans because of humans, people will always try to run away from reality, you are wrong. You fail to see what happens when a few generations in a row use these kind of poisons. Epi-genetics...

The reason why it cost so much is because your police are fighting a war against people who are being helped or have been helped in the past by very powerful people from your own government. Look at where for example cocaine comes from. Who produces it and why ? Look at history and the present. Look at past political motives and what evolved over time.

Says the future junkie.

No just making fun of you along while you make fun of yourself, you forget the powerful force religion has been as having social structures to maintain a certain view. Go on. i know you will understand sooner or later... You are as dumb as all the other people who say drugs can freely distributed without any effect on society and while disregarding how easy it is to start using drugs when any person have convinced his or herself there is no future. I will see you in the next major depression. Time is on my side...

I am not writing about marijuana. Legalize marijuana. It will not do any real harm. But do not legalize ever any other form of the real addictive drugs.I am distinctively making a discrimination between marijuana and the heavier addictive or in any other way damaging drugs.
I can tell you that a lot of people who use alcohol in the weekend as a means to release and to keep enjoying life are better of smoking a good joint once in a while. If somebody gets addicted to marijuana, get that person a psychological test, he or she has a problem. I promise you that. It is shown from research marijuana can be beneficial even to forget traumatic memories. But as always do not over do it wen using. The mechanism that alters the parts of your brain for storing/sustaining memory is influenced by the ingredients of marijuana. It is easy to see that to much use alters the way your brain functions. Some actually benefit by this because of some genetic fluke. But do not count on it, you are one of them.

Tobacco may be banned this minute. I will tell you some ironic history. While here in the USA it was promoted that real men chew or smoke tobacco, The germans before the WW2 began, where banning tobacco because they already knew it was releasing carcinogens when smoked or chewed.
Did you know the male models for the marlboro man died of lung cancer ? ^_^

Alcohol will be less interesting when people can smoke a joint once in a while without being seen as a criminal. Alcohol can be banned for a ll i care. I have used it occasionally, even been a hell of a comedian while effected by alcohol, but always have kept certain limits on my behaviour towards other people. But it does not mean i would loose a day of sleep it if was banned from this moment. I hardly consume it because i prefer a proper situation for it like for example celebration. My body is not born perfect. I like everybody else, have to take good care of it or my body will not be a good means of transport.

There are always a lucky few. I am glad for them and hope they will never be tempted again and fall back.


I am not demonizing drug addicts. Drug addicts must be helped , not punished. Most if not al drug addicts are mental patient or people who have trouble coming along and keeping up with the rest of society. Help them, do not punish them.


Afcourse drugs do not give you diseases. But continuous drugs use wear you down, consuming all of the natural repair mechanisms of your body. Nobody on drugs can keep going, something will break, if it is the mind or the body or both is not important. Something will break and cease to function properly. Afcourse exceptions always exist. But how do you know you are the exception. You really want to try and find out ?



You want to make drugs cheaper but you want to tax them. In effect you want to make money while other people get addicted. If you really think that works, legalize crack or crystal meth. You will make a lot of money but keep living around these people, so you experience what you will have accomplished. No good comes when people start to think with the instincts or emotions alone. Drugs take the cognitive mind away. Something you all fail to see.




The crimes will become more frequent. And when legalizing heavy addictive drugs, the mind altering effects will get stronger over time because the drugs get more pure and altered to have more effect . And psychological effects will get worse. The crimes will get worse. The end results will get worse. Especially in a country where guns are so easy to get. But that does not really matter. The altered minds will do the trick.

You use your intolerance for smoking while sober as a general argument that fits the entire population ? Think again.



I have already mentioned that most people use drugs for a reason in my other posts. Another reason is that some genetic fluke arises which the person would have never known about if they did not use drugs. You all fail to see how the human brain works and why there is a reward system. Trick this system and you just might find yourself after a while in a situation you do not want to be. But you are hardwired now and the cravings haunt you. Have a nice life. There are always exceptions , but how do you you are the exception ?


Addictive nature of drugs can have many reasons. But you forget that the pleasure and the side effects do not always have to be the same. All you people forget that when you for example use a medicine to reduce pain, this medicine always has some side effect because you are messing with a chemically balanced system. People with an chemical unbalance might worsen the effect or reduce the effect or a combination of both of the chemical unbalance.
Do not forget you are not alone in the world. Looking only from your own perspective is kind of limiting with these kind of subjects.

If there are any physicists here, please answer this: How do you put so much stupid in one place?

This is why there is a war on drugs. Most everyone, like you, is easily fooled, moronically uneducated about the subject, and downright unable to argue it fairly. You have single-handedly included in your arguments every type of logical fallacy known to man, and on top of that, several pieces of downright misinformation. Congratulations, you will make a fine politician.

Here's some bait; nicotine, cocaine, LSD, ecstasy, cannabis, etc. etc. etc. are NOT ADDICTIVE (you got one right).

P.S. I included Shia's post simply for the fact it was the stupidest thing I have read this year.

 

[zsdersw]

I'm not sure there's really anything that isn't addictive, frankly. When we think, say, or do something that's pleasurable or otherwise makes us feel good we're naturally going to want more of it. This concept applies not only to drugs and other things we consume, but to everything from sex, fantasies we play out in our minds, power, attention, money, and probably a lot of others I'm not thinking of now.

There's little of any empirical significance that separates the negative consequences of illegal drug use/abuse from the negative consequences of legal drug use/abuse, so our reasoning for deciding which are legal and which are not should have nothing to do with negative consequences.

I'd also add that it's a fantasy to believe that the government/laws are effective at stopping citizens from enjoying their various vices. The best it can do is incentivize desired behavior, and even that's only somewhat effective.

The bottom line is that people either figure it out (how to be responsible adults) or they don't, and are in the end afforded the appropriate rewards or consequences. The proper role of government is not to coddle and shield people from what they must discover for themselves.

 

[William Gaatjes]

If there are any physicists here, please answer this: How do you put so much stupid in one place?

This is why there is a war on drugs. Most everyone, like you, is easily fooled, moronically uneducated about the subject, and downright unable to argue it fairly. You have single-handedly included in your arguments every type of logical fallacy known to man, and on top of that, several pieces of downright misinformation. Congratulations, you will make a fine politician.

Here's some bait; nicotine, cocaine, LSD, ecstasy, cannabis, etc. etc. etc. are NOT ADDICTIVE (you got one right).

P.S. I included Shia's post simply for the fact it was the stupidest thing I have read this year.

I do not expect you to understand what is written below. But i prefer to make my point.

Although i prefer other sources as well, i will stick to wikipedia this time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

Nicotine acts on the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, specifically the ganglion type nicotinic receptor and one CNS nicotinic receptor. The former is present in the adrenal medulla and elsewhere, while the latter is present in the central nervous system (CNS). In small concentrations, nicotine increases the activity of these receptors. Nicotine also has effects on a variety of other neurotransmitters through less direct mechanisms.
[edit]
In CNS

By binding to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, nicotine increases the levels of several neurotransmitters - acting as a sort of "volume control". It is thought that increased levels of dopamine in the reward circuits of the brain are responsible for the euphoria and relaxation and eventual addiction caused by nicotine consumption. Nicotine has a higher affinity for acetylcholine receptors in the brain than those in skeletal muscle, though at toxic doses it can induce contractions and respiratory paralysis.[14] Nicotine's selectivity is thought to be due to a particular amino acid difference on these receptor subtypes.[15]

Tobacco smoke contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman, norharman,[16] anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine. These compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers.[16][17] MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin.

Chronic nicotine exposure via tobacco smoking up-regulates alpha4beta2* nAChR in cerebellum and brainstem regions[18][19] but not habenulopeduncular structures.[20] Alpha4beta2 and alpha6beta2 receptors, present in the ventral tegmental area, play a crucial role in mediating the reinforcement effects of nicotine.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine#Physical_mechanisms

The pharmacodynamics of cocaine involve the complex relationships of neurotransmitters (inhibiting monoamine uptake in rats with ratios of about: serotonin:dopamine = 2:3, serotonin:norepinephrine = 2:5[53]) The most extensively studied effect of cocaine on the central nervous system is the blockade of the dopamine transporter protein. Dopamine transmitter released during neural signaling is normally recycled via the transporter; i.e., the transporter binds the transmitter and pumps it out of the synaptic cleft back into the presynaptic neuron, where it is taken up into storage vesicles. Cocaine binds tightly at the dopamine transporter forming a complex that blocks the transporter's function. The dopamine transporter can no longer perform its reuptake function, and thus dopamine accumulates in the synaptic cleft. This results in an enhanced and prolonged postsynaptic effect of dopaminergic signaling at dopamine receptors on the receiving neuron. Prolonged exposure to cocaine, as occurs with habitual use, leads to homeostatic dysregulation of normal (i.e. without cocaine) dopaminergic signaling via down-regulation of dopamine receptors and enhanced signal transduction. The decreased dopaminergic signaling after chronic cocaine use may contribute to depressive mood disorders and sensitize this important brain reward circuit to the reinforcing effects of cocaine (e.g. enhanced dopaminergic signalling only when cocaine is self-administered). This sensitization contributes to the intractable nature of addiction and relapse.

Dopamine-rich brain regions such as the ventral tegmental area, nucleus accumbens, and prefrontal cortex are frequent targets of cocaine addiction research. Of particular interest is the pathway consisting of dopaminergic neurons originating in the ventral tegmental area that terminate in the nucleus accumbens. This projection may function as a "reward center", in that it seems to show activation in response to drugs of abuse like cocaine in addition to natural rewards like food or sex.[54] While the precise role of dopamine in the subjective experience of reward is highly controversial among neuroscientists, the release of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens is widely considered to be at least partially responsible for cocaine's rewarding effects. This hypothesis is largely based on laboratory data involving rats that are trained to self-administer cocaine. If dopamine antagonists are infused directly into the nucleus accumbens, well-trained rats self-administering cocaine will undergo extinction (i.e. initially increase responding only to stop completely) thereby indicating that cocaine is no longer reinforcing (i.e. rewarding) the drug-seeking behavior.

You are right about LSD, which i never mentioned as addictive. But it is mind altering and can be a psychosis trigger in other wise normal people. Not a good idea to have people who have to work high on LSD though, keep it illigal.
It is too heavy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adverse_Drug_Interactions

MDMA or ecstacy, is not addictive but if you have bad luck or have been using for years , you have a changed brain chemistry for life. And that does not mean you turn into a scanner or your children are scanners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA

One person have been seen to benefit from MDMA. This person has parkinson. There is even a documentary made about him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1169980.stm

Tim Lawrence has found a drug that is far more effective at controlling the symptoms of his Parkinson's Disease than any prescribed by a doctor.

The only problem is that it is Ecstasy, the illegal and dangerous stimulant much favoured by night-club ravers.

His discovery could overturn 30 years of medical thought, and eventually lead to a new treatment for Parkinson's.

However, some scientists fear the short term effect might be outweighed by longer term severe damage to his health.

Cannabis is not addictive for most people. But people who have a genetic fluke might find it more difficult to stop. Especially after daily using for years. This is reality and not something i make up. Using every day does change the parts of the brain involved in memory processing. Using once in a while will not be an issue. What you forget is that you should ask yourself why you should put chemicals in your body to make you feel good. You should ask yourself that.



If you want an "easy" way to feel euforia , i will give you a hint of what you should master :
Lay down on your bed without taking any form of substance besides healthy food.Try visualizing in your mind yourself in your room with as much detail of your as you can. When you can do this you wil feel a sensation of pleasure.
When you have done this, try visualizing the planet with as much detail as you can. Try to see yourself in your mind laying on your bed while trying to keep the proper dimensions of the earth and keeping the planet earth as well in your head. When you can do that while keeping proper dimensions, you will not desire for drugs. When you can do that, and you have enough rest...
You will be able to do lucid dreaming. Imagine being able to do everything you see in the movies while in your dream because you know you are dreaming. When you can do that, perhaps you will find that drugs are useless. It can only be done when your brain functions properly...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

A lucid dream is a dream in which the sleeper is aware that he or she is dreaming. When the dreamer is lucid, he or she can actively participate in and often manipulate the imaginary experiences in the dream environment. Lucid dreams can seem extremely real and vivid depending on a person's level of self-awareness during the lucid dream.[1]

The term was coined by the Dutch Psychiatrist and writer Frederik van Eeden (1860–1932).[2]

A lucid dream can begin in one of three ways. A dream-initiated lucid dream (DILD) starts as a normal dream, and the dreamer eventually concludes that he or she is dreaming, while a wake-initiated lucid dream (WILD) occurs when the dreamer goes from a normal waking state directly into a dream state with no apparent lapse in consciousness. A mnemonic-initiated lucid dream (MILD) can happen when the dreamer intentionally affirms to himself or herself that he or she will become lucid during the upcoming sleep. Reaching lucidity can sometimes occur due to dream-signs or spontaneously upon remembrance.

Lucid dreaming has been researched scientifically, and its existence is well established.[

 

[William Gaatjes]

I didn't say you were demonizing them, I said that the demonization by society compounds the already fragile state of the drug addicts perception, and state of problems facing them.

The same can be said of a LOT of things, stress, overworking, dangerous sports, as well as the unhealthy diet that Americans have developed.

These are not addictive items you write down. You might want to know that when the cortisol (stresshormone) production does not work properly you will not feel happy. And then you will find the use of cannabis or alcohol quite inviting. The question is , what should you do solve your stress problem or smoke cannabis or drink alcohol forever ? Life is not that easy. When people need substances to function, there is something wrong and what ever is wrong should be solved first.

So what? It's the same thing as cigarettes, and alcohol, as well as prescription medications. And there's no reason that they can not be made cheap enough as to offset the tax, and still keep them affordable to the point of people not having to rob for them. Of course that is only one avenue, another would be maintenance programs such as methadone where the cost of the program is affordable to addicts, but focuses on getting them off the drugs, or at least down to a maintainable level of usage. Of course even I don't see a way to viably legalize the harder drugs, and don't necessarily support their ready availability, but I do support decriminalization at least.

Well, why should we not try to keep the amount of addicts and people with psychological problems as low as possible. It is far more intelligent and civilized to keep each other healthy and happy then to let some people suffer because you want to make a quick buck. I really find it strange that all of you who want it legalized. And i can only see one reason why. You want to use any form of drugs yourself. Cannabis can be legalized, a lot people will drink a lot less alcohol then, and thus it will be beneficial for the health of those people and will lessen the burden on other people. Afcourse there will be always a group that will just drink more and smoke cannabis until they have no more short term memory left. And you should really do some research on methadone. It seems to be according to some of the people who use it to stay of the heroine, to be worse then heroine itself. How about that... Same as medicine for some people it works, for others it does not.

I don't fail to see anything, lots of those mental problem stems from it being illegal, and the condemnation by society on drug users, coupled with already weakened emotional state makes for a bad time. Like I said before things like crack, and meth wouldn't really be able to be legalized and sold as an over the counter recreational drug like alcohol or weed, but in a decriminalized, more controlled setting maybe. Of course they would all be controlled, and regulated in the same way that alcohol is now, obviously public intoxication, and DUI would be problematic, but not specific to those alone. Just getting rid the criminality of possession and removing the black market value would have a tremendous positive impact on society. You can look at it as "well we'd have a nation of drug addicts", which I think is far from the truth (more specifically that it wouldn't necessarily be any worse), or you can realize that we already have a nation of drug addicts, and violence associated with drug trafficking, and distribution, as well as swollen, over burdened prison system.

The problem all you people forget is that you think that once it is freely and legally available, you think all the nasty side effects disappear too. And that is where you are wrong and you still fail to see. These drugs have a mind altering effect and the effects can be disastrous for the people who use and those that love them. You really think that people are suddenly behaving normal when the heavy forms of drugs are legal and cheap ? Then why should they use in the first place ? Talking about not seeing it clearly...

Have any proof of that?

If you cannot extrapolate why should i still bother trying to explain it to you... I stated enough facts as difference in behaviour, less moral, less strict with social structures and proper behaviour. Some cocaine addicts do not sleep for days. You no what happens to you when you do not sleep for days and you do not use any drugs ? Try staying awake for one week in a row. And then see how you act. Then you have some idea with out having to use any of the heavy drugs.

That is just patently false. As it is now drugs are not regulated for content whatsoever. Dealers use whatever they can find to cut drugs, and their inconsistency in potency has caused many overdoses. Instead of using more stable chemicals for processing things like diesel, battery acid, and other toxic chemicals are used.

Maybe you should stay of the shit for a while.

More speculation without any data. The problem with your speculation is that there are already copious amounts of narcotics in this country, and they are controlled by criminals, just using and having drugs makes people de facto criminals. Your babbling would make sense if there weren't already tons of drugs on the streets, and tons of drug related crime, but you seem to be pretending that all this doesn't already exist.

You live in the strange illusion that these amounts already available do not cause problems. I would almost start to think you sell some dope yourself...
Go talk to hospitals. Go seek some knowledge in rehab centers. If you already did and you still do not understand what it does to society. Seek some psychiatric help... These criminals will make money because that is what they want. They may need money to pay for some cause like for example a religious or political war. Some just want to be the big bad pimp with is bitches from the shaft series. All these people do not care for anybody. If you would legalize cocaine and th prices would get to low, they will start to make sure prices will go up again. And otherwise they will seek for a new drug, more addictive, more money to be made. You fail to pull the problem apart into different sections why thing are as the way they are. Please educate yourself. I have not seen anybody who wants to legalize drugs come up with an argument that makes me think : Hey, he or she actually has a point. And you never will. You look it this difficult problem only from your own eager perspective. And that is why you fail. I would not care if drugs would all be legalized in the sense that i would not use. But i do care about the destructive behaviour the people around me will exhibit. Legal or illegal. Cheap or Expensive. I will see a rise in sickness. A whole epidemic of people with psychological problems. I will see a rise of people who used to think before acting now act first and regret later. I see people who are poor and never had a fair chance on life start using drugs at a way to young age. I will see children abused. I will see violence increase. I will see people with trauma's who will start to use and become psychotic. You can think all you want, but a few generations on drugs and society will start to crumble.
What you will get is that people not using drugs will get tired of the erratic behaviour of people using drugs all the time. There will be more fights, more violence, more destruction.

Freedom means living together. Freedom means giving up some of your freedom to be able to live happy together with other people who give up a little bit of freedom. If you want to be ultimately free, go live on an island alone. Then you can do what you want and nobody would care.

 

[zsdersw]

William Gaatjes, no one here denies that drug use/abuse can lead to many bad things, but that's not the point of this discussion. The point is mainly that government and law is not the right way (or even the best way) to get people to stop using them or otherwise change their lives for the better.

Making something like drug use/sale illegal is not a magic wand that instantly and forever stops a certain behavior or activity. It instead begins a never-ending cat/mouse game that does little to curb the undesired activity and a lot to increase costs, eat up valuable police time/resources, and clog up the courts. Surely there's a better way...

... and there is: education, support, and treatment. All of these things are good. All of these things are effective. All of them would still be effective even if every drug were completely legal. All of them should be continued, if not expanded, when drugs are legalized.

 

[William Gaatjes]

William Gaatjes, no one here denies that drug use/abuse can lead to many bad things, but that's not the point of this discussion. The point is mainly that government and law is not the right way (or even the best way) to get people to stop using them or otherwise change their lives for the better.

The government is there for society. At least that should be the case. Therefore, society should think what is best for us all in the long run. And then it becomes obvious that you cannot expect everybody to always be a perfect person without any weaknesses. You have to be a little protective of people. Only a little bit, but just enough to keep the future problems away that slowly grown on society like a malignant cancer. If you legalize the heavy forms and/or addictive forms of drugs, the time society realizes and acts on the problem, to much damage has already been done.
Perhaps your right that the current strategy of your government and police force does not work. But then again, i have mentioned this before. Political interests. Your police force cannot be blamed for the fact that drugs lords are protected because of some government decision. Learn about history, seek out where the drugs come from and why. If a very large group of people have overwhelming honest and correct evidence of wrong political decisions, i am sure Mr Obama will have an listening ear. He seems to know what drugs can do to a person when the person is in doubt and weak or insecure.

Making something like drug use/sale illegal is not a magic wand that instantly and forever stops a certain behavior or activity. It instead begins a never-ending cat/mouse game that does little to curb the undesired activity and a lot to increase costs, eat up valuable police time/resources, and clog up the courts. Surely there's a better way...

Indeed there is. Drugs are primarily sold as a means to earn money for another more important cause. Do research there. You will not like what you will find.

... and there is: education, support, and treatment. All of these things are good. All of these things are effective. All of them would still be effective even if every drug were completely legal. All of them should be continued, if not expanded, when drugs are legalized.

Well, if there is one thing moonbeam is right about, is that the human mind is not 100 percent up and running at full power every day or even whole day. The human brain consumes a lot of energy and throttles it self when temperatures rise, when bloodflow is hindered, when nutrients are not delivered fast enough or when waste cannot be removed fast enough.
Having an impact on cognitive function. And any person cannot use anger all day to feed his strength. Or any other emotion. Life is not perfect every day.

 

[xj0hnx]

These are not addictive items you write down.

I didn't say they were, I said they have the same effects, whether they are addictive or not is irrelevant.

Well, why should we not try to keep the amount of addicts and people with psychological problems as low as possible.

Where did I say we shouldn't?

It is far more intelligent and civilized to keep each other healthy and happy then to let some people suffer because you want to make a quick buck.

No one is talking about "making a buck" except you.

I really find it strange that all of you who want it legalized. And i can only see one reason why. You want to use any form of drugs yourself.

Once again you make another stupid assumption, seems to be a trend.

Cannabis can be legalized, a lot people will drink a lot less alcohol then, and thus it will be beneficial for the health of those people and will lessen the burden on other people. Afcourse there will be always a group that will just drink more and smoke cannabis until they have no more short term memory left.

Which they already do, so instead of filling the jails with non-violent defacto criminals, and wrecking families decriminalize it.

And you should really do some research on methadone. It seems to be according to some of the people who use it to stay of the heroine, to be worse then heroine itself. How about that... Same as medicine for some people it works, for others it does not.

The specifics of how methadone effects different people is not the point, I think you know that but it's easier to be obtuse.

The problem all you people forget is that you think that once it is freely and legally available, you think all the nasty side effects disappear too. And that is where you are wrong and you still fail to see.

No, we don't, what you people forget is that even if you keep them illegal people are still going to do them, and be defacto criminals, and continue to have lives that spiral out of control, and be shamed by society, and further continue the trend of destruction.

If you cannot extrapolate why should i still bother trying to explain it to you...

There's nothing to extrapolate, you don't have any facts, just your baseless assumptions.

I stated enough facts as difference in behaviour, less moral, less strict with social structures and proper behaviour.

No, you haven't, you have stated you opinions, and some wiki articles.

Some cocaine addicts do not sleep for days. You no what happens to you when you do not sleep for days and you do not use any drugs ? Try staying awake for one week in a row. And then see how you act. Then you have some idea with out having to use any of the heavy drugs.

And this is going to change by keeping it illegal how? Oh, wait, it's not.

The rest is just babbling.

 

[xj0hnx]

If you legalize the heavy forms and/or addictive forms of drugs, the time society realizes and acts on the problem, to much damage has already been done.

Open your fucking eyes. The damage is ALREADY done.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I do not expect you to understand what is written below. But i prefer to make my point.

Although i prefer other sources as well, i will stick to wikipedia this time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine#Physical_mechanisms




You are right about LSD, which i never mentioned as addictive. But it is mind altering and can be a psychosis trigger in other wise normal people. Not a good idea to have people who have to work high on LSD though, keep it illigal.
It is too heavy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adverse_Drug_Interactions

MDMA or ecstacy, is not addictive but if you have bad luck or have been using for years , you have a changed brain chemistry for life. And that does not mean you turn into a scanner or your children are scanners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA

One person have been seen to benefit from MDMA. This person has parkinson. There is even a documentary made about him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1169980.stm


Cannabis is not addictive for most people. But people who have a genetic fluke might find it more difficult to stop. Especially after daily using for years. This is reality and not something i make up. Using every day does change the parts of the brain involved in memory processing. Using once in a while will not be an issue. What you forget is that you should ask yourself why you should put chemicals in your body to make you feel good. You should ask yourself that.



If you want an "easy" way to feel euforia , i will give you a hint of what you should master :
Lay down on your bed without taking any form of substance besides healthy food.Try visualizing in your mind yourself in your room with as much detail of your as you can. When you can do this you wil feel a sensation of pleasure.
When you have done this, try visualizing the planet with as much detail as you can. Try to see yourself in your mind laying on your bed while trying to keep the proper dimensions of the earth and keeping the planet earth as well in your head. When you can do that while keeping proper dimensions, you will not desire for drugs. When you can do that, and you have enough rest...
You will be able to do lucid dreaming. Imagine being able to do everything you see in the movies while in your dream because you know you are dreaming. When you can do that, perhaps you will find that drugs are useless. It can only be done when your brain functions properly...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

Like I said

...moronically uneducated about the subject...

You do not even know the definition of addiction. You are abysmally unqualified to lecture anyone on the subject. Nicotine and cocaine are not addictive. I am right, you are wrong, and I am not going to bother explaining why. Have a nice day.

 

[zsdersw]

The government is there for society. At least that should be the case. Therefore, society should think what is best for us all in the long run. And then it becomes obvious that you cannot expect everybody to always be a perfect person without any weaknesses. You have to be a little protective of people. Only a little bit, but just enough to keep the future problems away that slowly grown on society like a malignant cancer. If you legalize the heavy forms and/or addictive forms of drugs, the time society realizes and acts on the problem, to much damage has already been done.

Even if I bought your argument that "society should think what is best for us all in the long run" and "you have to be a little protective of people", it is a monumental fail for at least this one critical reason: it is not protecting people at all.

Perhaps your right that the current strategy of your government and police force does not work. But then again, i have mentioned this before. Political interests. Your police force cannot be blamed for the fact that drugs lords are protected because of some government decision. Learn about history, seek out where the drugs come from and why. If a very large group of people have overwhelming honest and correct evidence of wrong political decisions, i am sure Mr Obama will have an listening ear. He seems to know what drugs can do to a person when the person is in doubt and weak or insecure.

Nothing in that paragraph makes sense.

Indeed there is. Drugs are primarily sold as a means to earn money for another more important cause. Do research there. You will not like what you will find.

That makes little sense, either.

Well, if there is one thing moonbeam is right about, is that the human mind is not 100 percent up and running at full power every day or even whole day. The human brain consumes a lot of energy and throttles it self when temperatures rise, when bloodflow is hindered, when nutrients are not delivered fast enough or when waste cannot be removed fast enough.
Having an impact on cognitive function. And any person cannot use anger all day to feed his strength. Or any other emotion. Life is not perfect every day.

Earth to William Gaatjes.. respond please.

 

[xj0hnx]

You do not even know the definition of addiction. You are abysmally unqualified to lecture anyone on the subject. Nicotine and cocaine are not addictive. I am right, you are wrong, and I am not going to bother explaining why. Have a nice day.

People often confuse physical, and physiological dependence with addiction.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Open your fucking eyes. The damage is ALREADY done.

I expected such an response.

Here is my reply :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7u3MxsexYM&feature=related


EDIT:
Forgot to mention that the video kind of fits you.
Have fun. Tata...

 

[William Gaatjes]

Like I said

You do not even know the definition of addiction. You are abysmally unqualified to lecture anyone on the subject. Nicotine and cocaine are not addictive. I am right, you are wrong, and I am not going to bother explaining why. Have a nice day.

Enjoy your smoke and coke...

 

[William Gaatjes]

Even if I bought your argument that "society should think what is best for us all in the long run" and "you have to be a little protective of people", it is a monumental fail for at least this one critical reason: it is not protecting people at all.



Nothing in that paragraph makes sense.



That makes little sense, either.



Earth to William Gaatjes.. respond please.

Learn to use less dope, you will be able to think a little deeper.

 

[ShawnD1]

People often confuse physical, and physiological dependence with addiction.

It starts to get fuzzy what addiction even means. The best google result I can find would be this one:

addict - someone who is physiologically dependent on a substance; abrupt deprivation of the substance produces withdrawal symptoms

The tricky part is deciding whether or not the withdrawal is caused by the drug doing some kind of damage to your body or if you're just going back to the way you were before you took that drug. Example:
-I am tired
-I drink coffee
-I feel very awake
-coffee wears off
-I feel very tired

Would you say the tiredness is a withdrawal symptom caused by the coffee, or would you say I'm just going back to the way I was before I had any caffeine? For a lot of drugs, the withdrawal is just a return to the way they were before. Depressed guy stops taking his meds and feels depressed. Cocaine guy feels tired and sad after the cocaine wears off. These I would say are not symptoms of addiction since they are both reflective of how that person was before. A real addiction would be something like alcohol where people can literally die from withdrawal. Another one is certain SSRI antidepressants which cause weird shocking pains in the neck when people stop taking them. You wouldn't say the person already had weird shocking pains before taking the medication, therefore the shocking pain is directly caused by a dependence on that drug.