- Feb 6, 2002
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The NJ and NY flags you mentioned during those times no longer exist so you already got your wish. Lucky you
The NJ and NY flags you mentioned during those times no longer exist so you already got your wish. Lucky you
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
You've convinced me. I just wrote my Congressman and demanded that we remove the Mexican flag from its pole at the State House where it perpetually flies at full staff because it is illegal to remove it by explicit legislative decree.
-EDIT- Apparently that doesn't actually apply because nowhere in America is the Mexican flag required by local decree to be flown at full staff at all times on government property. So I guess it's not really the same thing as what South Carolina is doing.
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Neither, public school all the way. No lies. But, feel free to believe what you wish. It doesn't change the facts of what I have experienced living in the South all my life. Question, how many racist people doing racist things should I have seen by the age of 37? One is obviously way below average based on the fact some people don't believe me.
And your proof of that is? You didn't answer my question either. No matter what your answer is, being outside of 1 standard deviation of the mean or even being an outlier doesn't make it a lie.
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DrDoug
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2014
- 3,580
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After the confederate flags come down maybe they can move on to confederate sculptures starting with this one of Nathan Bedford:
WTF?!
Is that real?! His face looks like someone is fisting him while he's on his favorite horse.
That and he looks like he has Down's Syndrome...lol!
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
- 22,241
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OMG! Don't pop all the bubbles of everyone that thinks Lincoln walked on water. Lincoln was as racist as any of the Southerners that he sent his army against. He didn't give two craps about freeing anybody. All he wanted was to preserve the union.
Anyone who has read any of Lincolns writing knows this. It is obvious that a lot have not read any.
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
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Some quotes from some of those fine upstanding Northerners:
Look to the South and you who went with us through that land can best say if they have not been fearfully punished. Mourning is in every household, desolation written in broad characters across the whole face of their country, cities in ashes and fields laid waste, their commerce gone, their system of labor annihilated and destroyed. Ruin and poverty and distress everywhere, and now pestilence adding to the very cap sheaf of their stack of misery...Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who left a 60 mile wide, 300 mile long path of death and desolation across GA and up through SC.
I have destroyed over 2,000 barns filled with wheat, hay and farming implements; over 70 mills filled with flour and wheat, and have driven in front of the Army over 4,000 head of stock and have killed and issued to the troops not less than 3,000 sheep. Tomorrow I will continue the destruction down to Fisher’s Mill. When this is completed, the Valley from Winchester to Staunton, 92 miles, will have but little in it for man or beast.....from an Oct. 7, 1864 report to Gen. Grant from Gen. Sheridan.
Dr. Thomas J. DiLorenzo, economics professor at Loyola College in Baltimore and historian and writer, tells us that Sherman once wrote to his wife that his purpose was the "extermination, not of soldiers alone...but of the people" of the South. Sherman often ordered his soldiers, many of whom were street criminals from Northern as well as European cities, to shoot civilians at random. He ordered his men to burn entire towns in Tennessee and Mississippi and of course Georgia. And the thousands of letters and diaries that survived the war attest to the rape of both black and white women by Sherman's men.
Another of Lincoln's generals Phil Sheridan is known for the horrors he inflicted on civilians in the Shennandoah Valley during the war. In the autumn of 1864, with the winter closing in, Dr. DiLorenzo tells us Sheridan's troops burned crops and killed thousands upon thousands of cattle and sheep and turned women and children out in the cold.
"The government of the U.S. has any and all rights which they choose to enforce in war - to take their lives, their homes, their land, their everything...war is simply unrestrained by the Constitution...to the persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better...Mjr. Gen. W. T. Sherman, Jan. 31, 1864.
Gen. Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Sec. of War, Edwin Station wrote, "There is a class of people men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order." Stanton replied, "Your letter of the 21st of June has just reached me and meets my approval."
Killing men Women and Children. The unknown numbers black slave women that were raped to near death... on Shermans march.
You northerners call them liberators and heros. They are / were War Criminals if you dig down to the truth.
Look to the South and you who went with us through that land can best say if they have not been fearfully punished. Mourning is in every household, desolation written in broad characters across the whole face of their country, cities in ashes and fields laid waste, their commerce gone, their system of labor annihilated and destroyed. Ruin and poverty and distress everywhere, and now pestilence adding to the very cap sheaf of their stack of misery...Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who left a 60 mile wide, 300 mile long path of death and desolation across GA and up through SC.
I have destroyed over 2,000 barns filled with wheat, hay and farming implements; over 70 mills filled with flour and wheat, and have driven in front of the Army over 4,000 head of stock and have killed and issued to the troops not less than 3,000 sheep. Tomorrow I will continue the destruction down to Fisher’s Mill. When this is completed, the Valley from Winchester to Staunton, 92 miles, will have but little in it for man or beast.....from an Oct. 7, 1864 report to Gen. Grant from Gen. Sheridan.
Dr. Thomas J. DiLorenzo, economics professor at Loyola College in Baltimore and historian and writer, tells us that Sherman once wrote to his wife that his purpose was the "extermination, not of soldiers alone...but of the people" of the South. Sherman often ordered his soldiers, many of whom were street criminals from Northern as well as European cities, to shoot civilians at random. He ordered his men to burn entire towns in Tennessee and Mississippi and of course Georgia. And the thousands of letters and diaries that survived the war attest to the rape of both black and white women by Sherman's men.
Another of Lincoln's generals Phil Sheridan is known for the horrors he inflicted on civilians in the Shennandoah Valley during the war. In the autumn of 1864, with the winter closing in, Dr. DiLorenzo tells us Sheridan's troops burned crops and killed thousands upon thousands of cattle and sheep and turned women and children out in the cold.
"The government of the U.S. has any and all rights which they choose to enforce in war - to take their lives, their homes, their land, their everything...war is simply unrestrained by the Constitution...to the persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better...Mjr. Gen. W. T. Sherman, Jan. 31, 1864.
Gen. Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Sec. of War, Edwin Station wrote, "There is a class of people men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order." Stanton replied, "Your letter of the 21st of June has just reached me and meets my approval."
Killing men Women and Children. The unknown numbers black slave women that were raped to near death... on Shermans march.
You northerners call them liberators and heros. They are / were War Criminals if you dig down to the truth.
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
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Meghan54
Lifer
- Oct 18, 2009
- 11,684
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First, as to this point in your post...guess that'd make the U.S. war criminals for firebombing Dresden and Tokyo, in which untold numbers of civilians, incl. women and children, were killed indiscriminately?
As to the rest, that's war. Total war. Unpleasant, isn't it?
And, no, I'm not a "northern liberal", as you seem to describe anyone who disagrees with you. I grew up in Georgia during the 1950's. And your southern heritage includes.....?
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
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About the same I grew up in Georgia, 1950's and 60's. I am no racist, but I get sick of how the liberals refer to the Southern Atrocities when they have as much or more riding on their own backs.
Also notice how South Carolinians came together ( Blacks and Whites ) after the murders in the church, but in most of those same liberal states would have had riots and burnings... and a demand for someone's head on a stick.
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/349...-what-a-community-coming-together-looks-like/
Unity march across the Cooper River Bridge.
“Whenever the media comes to town, you fear that all the attention will go to conflict. So we feel vindicated that even after this awful event, the community of Charleston showed that love and unity prevailed over hate and division.”
The Unity Chain brought together people of all races.
This is what real people do. Not what is being displayed in this thread.
It provided a perfect depiction of what has been going on in Charleston over the past week— no violence, only an outpouring of love. Charleston resident, Ben Corum, explained to IJReview:
“After the shooting, there has been zero hostility around the city. Just mourning and coming together more than ever.”
“I believe this weekend, we as a community made a huge statement to the rest of America that violence is not the answer.”
You say this isn't the same as the police killings in Ferguson etc well:
Officer Michael Slager shooting down Walter Scott after a traffic stop.
No riots, No burnings etc. The officer was fired and charged with murder.
Until the other states can handle their own inequities they need to mind their own business first.
LA, Watts, Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, New York on and on... For just a few examples.
We have had our issues in the past and have learned from those mistakes. But that piece of red white and blue cloth didn't have anything to do with any of this.
Also notice how South Carolinians came together ( Blacks and Whites ) after the murders in the church, but in most of those same liberal states would have had riots and burnings... and a demand for someone's head on a stick.
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/349...-what-a-community-coming-together-looks-like/
Unity march across the Cooper River Bridge.
“Whenever the media comes to town, you fear that all the attention will go to conflict. So we feel vindicated that even after this awful event, the community of Charleston showed that love and unity prevailed over hate and division.”
The Unity Chain brought together people of all races.
This is what real people do. Not what is being displayed in this thread.
It provided a perfect depiction of what has been going on in Charleston over the past week— no violence, only an outpouring of love. Charleston resident, Ben Corum, explained to IJReview:
“After the shooting, there has been zero hostility around the city. Just mourning and coming together more than ever.”
“I believe this weekend, we as a community made a huge statement to the rest of America that violence is not the answer.”
You say this isn't the same as the police killings in Ferguson etc well:
Officer Michael Slager shooting down Walter Scott after a traffic stop.
No riots, No burnings etc. The officer was fired and charged with murder.
Until the other states can handle their own inequities they need to mind their own business first.
LA, Watts, Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, New York on and on... For just a few examples.
We have had our issues in the past and have learned from those mistakes. But that piece of red white and blue cloth didn't have anything to do with any of this.
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LightRider
Senior member
After the confederate flags come down maybe they can move on to confederate sculptures starting with this one of Nathan Bedford:
WTF?!
Him and Lucille Ball were separated at birth apparently...
DrDoug
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2014
- 3,580
- 1,629
- 136
It's interesting how other people in other nations have adopted the Beauregard Battle flag. One interesting note in the story is how Germans like to re-enact our Civil War and increasing numbers prefer to fight on the Confederate side. That and how their Neo Nazis have adopted the flag because the NAZI flag is banned there. Also interesting how it's noted that "Many Europeans see the flag as a de facto sign of far-right political leanings..."
Tonight my wife found a post on her Facebook that disappointed her quite a bit. It is from an old junior high/high school classmate. Her friend was born in Florida (grew up, schooled in Spokane, WA) and in the post she states that she's "very proud of her southern heritage". She "has black friends and family" and participates in Civil War re-enactments and has for a couple of decades now. She clearly expressed her disgust with how everyone has associated that flag with racists, nazis and other scum. She says in one breath that South Carolina can do what they want and then in the next she calls them idiots. In her opinion it's the fault of everyone else for believing that the flag (as used by nazis, racists, etc) is evil, that it's not the fault of the good people of the south who love and revere the flag for what it truly means; heritage. She then rants on about southern heritage and honor.
My wife called me over to read it and afterward I said "That was pretty sad to read." My wife responded that what was really sad was with all of the paragraphs she wrote in defense of the flag, the south, heritage and honor, not one word was uttered about the victims at Emmanuel.
Not one word.
Tonight my wife found a post on her Facebook that disappointed her quite a bit. It is from an old junior high/high school classmate. Her friend was born in Florida (grew up, schooled in Spokane, WA) and in the post she states that she's "very proud of her southern heritage". She "has black friends and family" and participates in Civil War re-enactments and has for a couple of decades now. She clearly expressed her disgust with how everyone has associated that flag with racists, nazis and other scum. She says in one breath that South Carolina can do what they want and then in the next she calls them idiots. In her opinion it's the fault of everyone else for believing that the flag (as used by nazis, racists, etc) is evil, that it's not the fault of the good people of the south who love and revere the flag for what it truly means; heritage. She then rants on about southern heritage and honor.
My wife called me over to read it and afterward I said "That was pretty sad to read." My wife responded that what was really sad was with all of the paragraphs she wrote in defense of the flag, the south, heritage and honor, not one word was uttered about the victims at Emmanuel.
Not one word.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
After the confederate flags come down maybe they can move on to confederate sculptures starting with this one of Nathan Bedford:
WTF?!
Yikes! That.. is just... really terrible.
Maybe that's the one they should leave up just as a historical reminder how bad this time was
After the confederate flags come down maybe they can move on to confederate sculptures starting with this one of Nathan Bedford:
WTF?!
My 3 year old would refer to that as "creepy". That isn't across the street from the local NAACP offices is it?
After the confederate flags come down maybe they can move on to confederate sculptures starting with this one of Nathan Bedford:
WTF?!
They can't take that one down. You know why. It is on private land off of I-65 in TN But, wow I think they should have paid for a better artists. It has been shot at several times, someone tried to cut the legs off, and they even tried to pull it down with a train, twice. Someone tied a rope to it and went across the railroad tracks and tied it off and waited for the train to come through, LOL. Sounds like it may be there until the guy dies.
wouldn't logic dictate that the Lincoln memorial should come down or be renamed?
I knew he was bad, but not that bad. You don't give orders to kill women in children during war. And to top it off the Sed. of War approved it. I understand collateral damage, but this is different. It could easily be considered genocide making it worse than the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan which deliberately killed civilians. But, at least with the atomic bomb the goal wasn't to kill off a class of people.
It's hard to see how. While Lincoln might have been a racist, Lincoln is not a symbol of racism. The Confederate flag is.
Basically all of the founding fathers were racists too, btw. They are also not symbols of racism though.
I see what your saying. Isn't Lincoln a symbol in the sense by being president (elected by the people of the country) so isn't he a symbol of the people who make up the country?
I would say genocide is worse than the human rights violations the South committed. Genocide is pretty much the highest human rights violation there is, correct? So the punishment would not be far worse for the South. It would be higher for the North or at least Sherman and the Sec. of War.
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