Congratulations to the people of Spain!

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Q36ExplosiveSpaceModulator

It's an off-topic diversion in this thread. Put it in a new thread. I'll be happy to discuss it there.

Point taken. Fair enough, and IMHO it's a good enough topic for another thread.

* EDIT * Evidently Cad thought so too, and so your wish is granted. new thread.

BTW, it's the pew-36ESM

Thought you would want to know that.

doh

CkG

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Is Iraq the Battlefield against Terrrorism ?

No. It is the broken shell of a country that was left after the Gulf War of 1991,
a country that was crushed by the US and Allies military might, and held at
bay through brutal sanctions for 12 years. 12 years of imposed hardships on the
people as punishment for having been left with the dictator that we placed there falling
out of favor with the Bush-1 Administration after being rewarded by the Reagan Administration
for being our bulldog and having a million of thier people killed in our proxie fight against Iran.

Bush-2 went into office with a single minded intent on finishing thier families revenge against
Saddam, as he was not allowed to prove to the world that he had, in fact, disarmed.
The people of Iraq continued to be punished with sanctions in the hopes that they would
rise up against him, like those did at the end of Gulf-1, where while we were point blank in your
face there, stood by and let his remaining Army wipe out those who dared show opposition.
Damn, we had just stomped his Army, and had them on the run, and we stepped aside and
let them re-group then we looked and yawned as his remaining troops crushed the feeble resistance.
Yes sir, I really think that they have learned to trust the US policies there,

It's not a Battlefield against Terrorism, it's a symbol of what happens to a country if Paranoid
leaders who are absolutely ignorant of the world and it's ways find themselves floundering in
a mess that they made and don't really care about - unless it's for thier millionare benefactors.

Terrorist Organizations are not going to be fighting us in Iraq, they are going to punish us and
those who were good little puppies and fell in line to accept the payment of concession.

Iraqis are going to be fighting us stealthy and cunningly, when they see a nick in our armour.
Get a little careless here, a little complacency there, they have centuries to go - it's their country.
They have been through this before, several times in multi-thousands of years, it's our turn now.

And all the time that we are making a big thing about Iraq and it being a battleground against terrorism,
the real terrorists will be selling you slurpies, answering your Tech Calls in India, golfing with OJ -
and we'll never be looking for the Real Killers.

Are you going to pass that around or hog it all to yourself? It takes some mighty good sh!t to come up with BS like that.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Corn
When the ETA learn from al-qaeda's example of how to run a successful terror campaign and murder a few hundred more will you also congratulate Spain then?

Hey, I've got nothing against the "people" voicing their displeasure against the Iraq war. But the swift action of this new government to decree that they will be pulling out of Iraq merely proves to al-qaeda that murdering innocents will give you want you want.........makes me wonder what target will be next?

Apparently the Germans and Frenchies are kinda scared because they are going to hold an emergency EU security conference.

Good point.

CkG

Not really, if i were Al Quaeda, i'd be focusing on other nations that supported the war with Iraq (i.e. England + Italy). These are not random killers.

You're absolutely right -- France and Germany should have no fear that they will be future targets of Al-Qaeda. France and Germany opposed the Iraq war and Al-Qaeda always remembers their friends.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Are you going to pass that around or hog it all to yourself? It takes some mighty good sh!t to come up with BS like that.

No. All it really tases is the capability to think, understand, and reason.
Look at the facts, understand what is said, and apply wisdom and knowledge.
it's really that simple - if you don't go into something with a pre-conceived notion
of what is right or wrong for a country and it's people.

They are a completely different culture, the concept of living in Peoria dosen't apply there.

 

[conjur]

Secretary of State Colin Powell says Spain would remain steadfast in its fight against terrorism irrespective of the change in the government.



See? Even Powell agrees the governmental change in Spain is not bad.

 

[biostud]

I was against a war started on false presumptions, but once the egg has been broken you'd better bake a cake or all is wasted. The worst thing to do is to pull out any troops until Iraq is more stable. And therefore I also find it pretty stupid that Spain pull out their troops. But I can fully understand that they wanted a new government.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
<STRONG>Are you going to pass that around or hog it all to yourself? It takes some mighty good sh!t to come up with BS like that.
</STRONG>
No. All it really tases is the capability to think, understand, and reason.
Look at the facts, understand what is said, and apply wisdom and knowledge.
it's really that simple - if you don't go into something with a pre-conceived notion
of what is right or wrong for a country and it's people.

They are a completely different culture, the concept of living in Peoria dosen't apply there.

Too bad you don't follow your own advice.

Do you want me to take the time to pick your BS apart or are you willing to concede the many error, fallacies and outright lies that it contains?

 

[Tab]

Regardless of what they thought the socialist party won by a moderate margin to say the least after a considerable time of rule by the conservatives. I wonder what tipped the scale? It sure looks like the Spanish people succumb to terrorists.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
<STRONG>Are you going to pass that around or hog it all to yourself? It takes some mighty good sh!t to come up with BS like that.
</STRONG>
No. All it really tases is the capability to think, understand, and reason.
Look at the facts, understand what is said, and apply wisdom and knowledge.
it's really that simple - if you don't go into something with a pre-conceived notion
of what is right or wrong for a country and it's people.

They are a completely different culture, the concept of living in Peoria dosen't apply there.

Too bad you don't follow your own advice.

Do you want me to take the time to pick your BS apart or are you willing to concede the many error, fallacies and outright lies that it contains?

[Reagan]Well, there you go again[/]

If you can pick it apart, do so. Stop talking about it and just do it, for once.

 

[dmcowen674]

Wow, Germany, France and Spain all against the U.S.

We're in 1941 all over again but in Reverse, we are the Germany this time.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Wow, Germany, France and Spain all against the U.S.

We're in 1941 all over again but in Reverse, we are the Germany this time.

Dave, do us all a favor and move to Canada eh....seems like your kind of place....no offense to canadiens

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Wow, Germany, France and Spain all against the U.S.

We're in 1941 all over again but in Reverse, we are the Germany this time.

Dave, do us all a favor and move to Canada eh....seems like your kind of place....no offense to canadiens

3-16-2004 Many Think U.S. Wants World Domination

A majority of people living in Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey say they believe the U.S. is conducting its campaign against terror to control Mideast oil and to dominate the world, according to an international poll released Tuesday.

A sizable number of people in France, Germany and Russia also have these suspicions about the campaign against terror

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
<STRONG>Are you going to pass that around or hog it all to yourself? It takes some mighty good sh!t to come up with BS like that.
</STRONG>
No. All it really tases is the capability to think, understand, and reason.
Look at the facts, understand what is said, and apply wisdom and knowledge.
it's really that simple - if you don't go into something with a pre-conceived notion
of what is right or wrong for a country and it's people.

They are a completely different culture, the concept of living in Peoria dosen't apply there.

Too bad you don't follow your own advice.

Do you want me to take the time to pick your BS apart or are you willing to concede the many error, fallacies and outright lies that it contains?

[Reagan]Well, there you go again[/]

If you can pick it apart, do so. Stop talking about it and just do it, for once.

I know, huh? <etech> I'm gonna do it this time, I swear. Seriously you guys. You're all wrong and I'm gonna show you how wrong you are . . . </>

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
:beer:

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Anyway - according to the left it has become the battleground - they keep saying that Iraq is the cause and breeding ground. If they say so... otherwise they couldn't use the Al Qaeda/Iraq scenario for Spain - no?

Your contention remains incorrect. That you continue to repeat it after countless people have clearly, repeatedly explained why it is wrong demonstrates how dishonest you have become in your defense of King George. Please let us all know if you someday become interested in discussion instead of pointless diversionary arguments.

So it is your contention that Iraq isn't a current battleground for terrorism?

CkG

Of course it is, but only because we decided to invade it. Now there are terrorists roaming the streets all over the place.

OK - So if it is - then how can someone say the terrorists didn't win last week? The new Spainish "govt" promised to pull their troops - and they've set a timetable to do so...just like the terrorists wanted.

Terrorists influenced things through terrorism and the killing of innocents. They will keep doing so until they are stopped and killed.

CkG

Well CAD, How do you know what the terrorists wanted? Zapateros was campaigning the whole time that he would pull the troops out of Iraq. So the idea exsisted well before the attack and might have something to do with Aznar acting against the wishes of an overwhelming majority of the population. Azna was often critizied for his handling of dangerous situations namely the tanker desaster, the war, the terrorist attack - where the government knowingly tried to misleasd the public for political gain - it backfired. The terror attack might have had some influence especially in bringing such issues back into the minds of voters but crediting the attack with completely changing the outcome of the election is typical american black and white the earth is simple thinking.
Off course you support your argument with simples statements that cant go wrong: Like we will see more of this - yes we will regardless if there was an attack in Sain or not. The BBC has a column where ppl voice their thaughts on news. The funny thing is mostly Americans showed the notion of Spainiard being cowards and bowing to terrorism. Almost all spainirads expressed the known reasons of why Aznar was voted out of office which had nothing to do with terrorist attacks. Btw Spaniards are quite accustumed to terror attacks why should they suddenly be in fear?

Anyway it is clear that the whole story can be spinned which ever way and we will never know the truth. They should have postponed the election by a month or so.

 

[etech]

DealMonkey, Sandorski.

Are you saying that Kirk's post is 100% true, contains no factual errors at all and that you two stand behind it 100% ?

 

[burnedout]

**Breaking News**

Independent polls carried out on Wednesday, the day before the bombings, showed the Socialists ahead with a slight majority.

A poll carried out by Noxa Consulting on Wednesday gave the Socialists less than a 2 percent margin, putting them, nevertheless, in the lead. A similar poll conducted Friday -- a day after the attacks, gave the Socialists an even greater lead. The big difference -- and the clear reason of the Socialist victory -- was the nearly 3 million votes the Socialists added while Aznar's now not so Popular Party lost about 690,000 votes.

UPI

**Film at Eleven**

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: etech
DealMonkey, Sandorski.

Are you saying that Kirk's post is 100% true, contains no factual errors at all and that you two stand behind it 100% ?

What does it matter? Put up or shutup.

 

[Czar]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1612019.htm

good reason to be mad at aznar if you live in spain

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: etech
DealMonkey, Sandorski.

Are you saying that Kirk's post is 100% true, contains no factual errors at all and that you two stand behind it 100% ?

What does it matter? I Kirk's name have Bush in it? Is he President? The only persons accountable to the position of Comander in Chief during both times mentioned have the name Bush in them not Kirk.

Bottom line, when you send an Iron Hammer all around the world you better have Iron clad reasons and not blame "Faulty Intelligence" on your own watch or anybody's elses.

When you pull the trigger you better have the right target in your sights.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Czar
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1612019.htm

good reason to be mad at aznar if you live in spain

yup

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: biostud666
I was against a war started on false presumptions, but once the egg has been broken you'd better bake a cake or all is wasted. The worst thing to do is to pull out any troops until Iraq is more stable. And therefore I also find it pretty stupid that Spain pull out their troops. But I can fully understand that they wanted a new government.

Well said! :beer:

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
We have heard what cowards you are, but I say good for you. You were led into a war that was not against terrorism, you opposed it and were ignored. You have realized that your vote could change things, and for the better. Pursue those who attacked you, but never give into the fear from either terrorists NOR those who say you must stay committed to a wrong course of action because they say you must.

Decide for yourselves what is best, and ignore those who do not walk in your shoes.

yes way to let terrorists know that all they need to do is blow up something on the eve of an election to change the results. that won't tempt them to do the same thing over and over at all.

they gave into the fear, which is exactly what you told them not to do.

 

[fjord]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
We have heard what cowards you are, but I say good for you. You were led into a war that was not against terrorism, you opposed it and were ignored. You have realized that your vote could change things, and for the better. Pursue those who attacked you, but never give into the fear from either terrorists NOR those who say you must stay committed to a wrong course of action because they say you must.

Decide for yourselves what is best, and ignore those who do not walk in your shoes.

yes way to let terrorists know that all they need to do is blow up something on the eve of an election to change the results. that won't tempt them to do the same thing over and over at all.

they gave into the fear, which is exactly what you told them not to do.

Looks like this "Caving in to Terror" BS was all about the Right-wing putting out their party-line message "it was a win for terrorism" as a damage control strategy.

From burnedout's post:

"Independent polls carried out on Wednesday, the day before the bombings, showed the Socialists ahead with a slight majority."

The folks trying to manipilate the Spanish Elections to change the outcome were Aznar's Partido Popular--and they lied and used the death of 200+ people for their own corrupt gain.

An omen of things to come this fall?

Damage Control in fast Spin mode

 

[Ornery]

CNN.com - Spain: Poll triumph for Socialists - Mar 15, 2004
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Blog for America: Comment on Sunday News Roundup
... JUST FEW DAYS AGO, THE Popular Party, THE RIGHT-WIN PARTY IN THE GOVERNMENT ... Losing
the elections they were previously favored to win may make them realize (a ...
blogforamerica.com/archives/003965.comments.html - 101k -

Reality Hammer - How the Liberal Media Works, Part 2
... Aznar's conservative Popular Party is favored to win the March 14 elections. Aznar's
hand-picked candidate, Mariano Rajoy, is leading the party's ticket. ...
reality-hammer.livejournal.com/23182.html - 53k -

CNN.com - Transcripts
... accuse Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Popular Party of a cover-up about who was
responsible for the blasts. The conservatives were favored to win before the ...
cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/14/ip.00.html - 76k -

CNN.com - Transcripts
... Spain's ruling Popular Party is favored to win but protesters have accused the party
of withholding information from the public about the attacks on Thursday. ...
cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/14/sun.01.html - 75k -