Confirmed by AMD & Intel - Rivals Intel and AMD Team Up on PC Chips to Battle NVidia

[PeterScott]

I do not see Apple going Nvidia again soon. They would have already and not stayed with AMD this long.

I still think, at least to some degree this is an Apple venture with AMD/Intel going at it together.

While Apple may have been a factor getting the first part to market. That doesn't mean no one else will be interested in this kind of solution, especially once the price comes down.

I expect in a few years, there will be multiple EMIB CPU/GPU combos featuring both NVidia and AMD GPU parts. While Apple may stick with AMD GPUs, there is no sign the rest of the market will.

 

[formulav8]

I'm talking this initial deal with AMD/Intel. Of course nothing is keeping other options off the table. I could easily see AMD doing their own thing as well. I may have misunderstood you.

This is only the first step going forward for this type of setup. Some interesting setups should be coming in the future... I quite welcome them.

 

[turtile]

There are tons of other companies I can invest in that won't sell their own competitive advantage away to their biggest competitors for a slight uptick in revenue.

This is a discrete die that is sold to Intel to add to a single package. Before, an OEM would have to buy an Intel CPU and chose either an AMD or Nvidia card. Now, an OEM just buys an entire package from Intel that only contains AMD product. There's no choice for Nvidia. The new design allows for more powerful, compact designs (like the Surface).

 

[el etro]

I'm more interested to see how Vega performs electrically and termally in a true(unlike 14LPP) HP process. Results WIlL BE GOOD.

 

[jpiniero]

I'm more interested to see how Vega performs electrically and termally in a true(unlike 14LPP) HP process. Results WIlL BE GOOD.

There's no guarantee this is Vega. If Intel was fabbing this I think they would have said something. Most likely it is GloFo 14.

 

[formulav8]

This is Polaris I believe and is still GF 14nm lpp.

 

[el etro]

This is Polaris I believe and is still GF 14nm lpp.

Then Intel will have to do some "chip gimnastics" to keep power comsumption in line for the Polaris and the 14LPP process.

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Edit: And better they sell it cheap enough to sell at big volumes, is better for AMD. Being only a showcase for EMIB and the D_iGPU don't will take AMD and Intel nowhere.

 

[FIVR]

@ FIVR; Your perception may be skewed (as a trader) in how you believe they'll be viewed. I think it's a feather in their cap, that "Intel came to us for a solution". That's a pretty strong sales pitch and will not hurt their image.
"Hundreds of millions of consumers, leading Fortune 500 businesses, and cutting-edge scientific research facilities around the world rely on AMD technology daily to improve how they live, work, and play. AMD employees around the world are focused on building great products that push the boundaries of what is possible."

This isn't the first time AMD & Intel had licensing agreements.

You might be right. I was up over 100% on my cost basis as of the morning of October 27th. I am now barely up 50%, and the only reason I'm not down to 40% is because I've collected premiums on weekly calls I sold.

My recent "losses" (well, lost profit) may be somewhat clouding my judgment. I don't like being wrong and I was wrong on the price movement over the last earnings report. That is the first time I've called an earnings report wrong in years (and I didn't even call it wrong in terms of reported earnings...I expected them to beat and they did and they still went down almost 40%). Now I've been wrong on this rumor too. AMD proving me wrong on every front, so in reaction I feel like my whole thesis on AMD (that they are a good turnaround and a good investment) may be wrong. The whole thing makes me doubt my drill down on this company.

 

[IntelUser2000]

This confirms another piece of CanardPC's and HardOCP's article about a year ago.

CPC said there was Intel CPU + AMD GPU part in the works. HardOCP said they were looking for a deal with Intel, and further they want to be the sole supplier to Intel(like selling themselves out).

Both CPC and HardOCP articles have said Intel fired significant number of graphics engineers to make way for RTG. You don't do that unless there's an alternative.

Interestingly with Cannonlake, articles say iGPU is the reason for the delay. If you fired bunch of people responsible for the GPU it makes sense that delays occur. Last big Intel layoff was in April of 2016. Skylake was late 2015, and ever since then the GPU advancement was at a standstill. Not a coincidence. Some time before Core uarch chips released there were talks that Intel moved most of its resources away from Netburst group to the Core group.

It wouldn't be completely surprising if RTG becomes part of Intel in the future either, just like Kyle's article. They certainly seem to be making room for them.

 

[Kenmitch]

They are not remotely the same.

You don't need a license to buy an OEM GPU chip.

If you can't build it I really doubt you could make it work without help.

Any mention of what kind of glue Intel will be using?

 

[PeterScott]

This confirms another piece of CanardPC's and HardOCP's article about a year ago.

CPC said there was Intel CPU + AMD GPU part in the works. HardOCP said they were looking for a deal with Intel, and further they want to be the sole supplier to Intel(like selling themselves out).

Both CPC and HardOCP articles have said Intel fired significant number of graphics engineers to make way for RTG. You don't do that unless there's an alternative.

Interestingly with Cannonlake, articles say iGPU is the reason for the delay. If you fired bunch of people responsible for the GPU it makes sense that delays occur. Last big Intel layoff was in April of 2016. Skylake was late 2015, and ever since then the GPU advancement was at a standstill. Not a coincidence. Some time before Core uarch chips released there were talks that Intel moved most of its resources away from Netburst group to the Core group.

It wouldn't be completely surprising if RTG becomes part of Intel in the future either, just like Kyle's article. They certainly seem to be making room for them.

It confirms none of that. This isn't replacing the IGPu.

It isn't even that tightly integrated. EMIB only connect HBM and the Radeon die.

The Intel CPU is separate and connected via PCIe.

From the CPU perspective this really isn't different from a dGPU on a laptop motherboard.

 

[CatMerc]

Intel can't buy RTG without AMD agreeing to it. Considering it's an important competitive advantage over Intel, they would have to pay a LOT to make AMD give it up.

 

[IntelUser2000]

It confirms none of that. This isn't replacing the IGPu.

It does confirm the portion from the CPC article,

The R&D is also studying a MCM package with an Intel CPU and an AMD GPU.

I'm not saying they'll be right in everything. Just that as time passes by, one by one its being confirmed. The reason people doubted such as "rumors" is because most are either in denial, or have interest in doing so. That's why so many people hated Kyle at HardOCP.

If anyone thinks Intel will just stop here, basically a fun hobbyist like product that'll sell at most maybe a million units, then they are naive. What they've announced today seemingly undermines their entire effort and investment on graphics, and even their culture. They'll likely expand the product line, and hopefully something that'll proliferate into many different versions.

The integration of RTG graphics will naturally increase until it becomes part of Intel, or until such deal stops altogether. All a natural progression line for a company that wants to maximize revenue and profit. It'll come a time where they'll have to choose between Gen graphics versus RTG graphics.

 

[PeterScott]

If anyone thinks Intel will just stop here, basically a fun hobbyist like product that'll sell at most maybe a million units, then they are naive. What they've announced today seemingly undermines their entire effort and investment on graphics, and even their culture. They'll likely expand the product line, and hopefully something that'll proliferate into many different versions.
.

Certainly it wont' stop. The next obvious step is connecting to NVidia GPUs. It makes much more sense to not tie into one source.

 

[raghu78]

Intel can't buy RTG without AMD agreeing to it. Considering it's an important competitive advantage over Intel, they would have to pay a LOT to make AMD give it up.

AMD will never sell RTG. Its their crown jewel and the reason AMD is alive today. The game consoles would not have been possible without AMD graphics. AMD's APUs would not be possible. Its ridiculous to suggest that AMD will sell RTG. Now that AMD's CPU division is starting to bring in revenues and become profitable there is no reason to sell RTG and commit suicide.

 

[piesquared]

AMD will never sell RTG. Its their crown jewel and the reason AMD is alive today. The game consoles would not have been possible without AMD graphics. AMD's APUs would not be possible. Its ridiculous to suggest that AMD will sell RTG. Now that AMD's CPU division is starting to bring in revenues and become profitable there is no reason to sell RTG and commit suicide.

You are right, AMD won't be entertaining any thoughts about selling off RTG, that is a ridiculous notion. Their GPU division is fully integrated into the company and can't be just split off. There are numerous full product lines that depend on their GPU from embedded to desktop to machine learning. And also a division called the semi-custom division of which the Radeon IP is invaluable. That is just talk from those financially vested in manufacturing an image of volatility for profit.

 

[formulav8]

The next obvious step is connecting to NVidia GPUs.

I don't think, in the foreseeable future, see why they would have anything NVidia in the pipeline. From what I recall they didn't even renew their IP licensing agreement with NVidia in March which they've been using in their IGP's. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road they would want to try and get Radeon IP if AMD would allow it.

But who knows, it could happen like you say of course. But I don't personally see it happening anytime soon.

 

[PeterScott]

I don't think, in the foreseeable future, see why they would have anything NVidia in the pipeline. From what I recall they didn't even renew their IP licensing agreement with NVidia in March which they've been using in their IGP's. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road they would want to try and get Radeon IP if AMD would allow it.

This has nothing to do with GPU IP. Intel bought a license in perpetuity to all NVidia GPU patents issued until the deal expired (2017), so they are totally covered for building their own IGPs indefinitely.

If NVidia comes up with a HBM solution they can join the party, denying them makes no sense. It's a second source.

It's mostly the HBM that makes the improvement here, not the CPU - GPU connection, which is just a normal Laptop type MB PCIe implementation (according to the AT story).

 

[sirmo]

So End of Era for G-sync if this package comes with Freesync.

G-sync was dead as soon as a free alternative came out. Another proprietary lock in standard for the trash heap of history.

 

[sirmo]

AMD will never sell RTG. Its their crown jewel and the reason AMD is alive today. The game consoles would not have been possible without AMD graphics. AMD's APUs would not be possible. Its ridiculous to suggest that AMD will sell RTG. Now that AMD's CPU division is starting to bring in revenues and become profitable there is no reason to sell RTG and commit suicide.

If anyone was going to buy AMD as a company that window was Q1 2016 when the stock was at the all time low and bankrupcy was still on the table. Too late now, AMD are cooking with gas now. For the first time in history they have strong CPUs and GPUs at the same time, and the pipeline is looking even better.

 

[Av9114]

This confirms another piece of CanardPC's and HardOCP's article about a year ago.

CPC said there was Intel CPU + AMD GPU part in the works. HardOCP said they were looking for a deal with Intel, and further they want to be the sole supplier to Intel(like selling themselves out).

Both CPC and HardOCP articles have said Intel fired significant number of graphics engineers to make way for RTG. You don't do that unless there's an alternative.

Interestingly with Cannonlake, articles say iGPU is the reason for the delay. If you fired bunch of people responsible for the GPU it makes sense that delays occur. Last big Intel layoff was in April of 2016. Skylake was late 2015, and ever since then the GPU advancement was at a standstill. Not a coincidence. Some time before Core uarch chips released there were talks that Intel moved most of its resources away from Netburst group to the Core group.

It wouldn't be completely surprising if RTG becomes part of Intel in the future either, just like Kyle's article. They certainly seem to be making room for them.

My personal opinion is that people are reading a little too much into this and conflating the facts with opinions/speculation. It is apparently true that there will now be an Intel CPU + AMD GPU part. I have no reason NOT to believe that Intel did layoff graphics engineers or that iGPU is part of the Cannonlake delay. Why any of that happened or what the future ramifications of those decisions are is very speculative. I can think of a number of other reasons Intel may have decided to change course on graphics that do not lead to RTG being sold to Intel (which I would view as a major bombshell).

 

[LightningZ71]

If anything, this should be an indication that the IRIS product line with the eDRAM cache is going to get the ax. That product required a relatively unique package and die setup that likely never achieved sufficient volume to cover it's costs. This is fundamentally where Intel wanted to go with it.

If this works out, I could see Intel and AMD extending the product line both higher and lower. This would allow Intel to pull the iGPU from all of its mainstream dies and only use them on their low end mobile and desktop dies. This would give more space to upper mainstream products to have more corez at 10nm and below with an optional MCMgpu of considerable performance available where needed in mobile and SFF. A 10nm intel cpu paired with a 7nm amd gpu and an HBM2 stack could likely fit in the same footprint as the current i3/5/7/9 line. With such a product line, Nvidia could be essentially shut out from almost all of its volume lower end sales and be starved for volume to spread costs out with.

 

[eek2121]

What license agreement? Talk about reading too much into it. This is getting a part, not licensing technology.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if there are still competent people here at the AT forums. Of course Intel signed a licensing agreement. Do you think AMD is just going to hand over a boatload of GPU parts and say give me money?

 

[beginner99]

I called it. Pipe-cleaner for EMIB for Apple. Pipe-cleaner because iMacs aren't in that huge demand compared to say iPhones or normal windows laptops. So volumes can be lower. Also Apple likes AMD and doesn't like Intel iGPU. One has got to wonder how much tied to AMD Apples metal api is...And is this is for Apple, well it could just as well be Vega. Albeit I have to admit I fail to see the great advantage Vega would pose over Polaris...At least big vega kind of doesn't show any advanatge in terms of performance per die size and watt.

 

[PeterScott]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if there are still competent people here at the AT forums. Of course Intel signed a licensing agreement. Do you think AMD is just going to hand over a boatload of GPU parts and say give me money?

Obviously yes, since that is their primary business model, that is exactly what they do. They sell chips for money.

You don't need to licence them to do that. Do you think every OEM has to sign a licensing agreement to buy parts? I worked for a business building custom telecom products. We bought multiple chips from Motorolla and Intel to use in our products, we didn't have to get a license to buy the parts and use them. We just bought them and used them as we saw fit.