Concealed carry doesn't work if they already have a gun on you right?

[blankslate]

The victim is very lucky that the other guy ran. It looked like 3 maybe 4 rounds and he was a decent shoot. If anything, this video helps show that with 2 vicious thug attackers you need to have at least 10rds with a handgun.

If the guy was able to draw and put down one assailant when he already had a gun pointed at him then surely he was able to reload if needed very quickly.

 

[irishScott]

If the guy was able to draw and put down one assailant when he already had a gun pointed at him then surely he was able to reload if needed very quickly.

Within 5 feet? The speed of reloading is only effective if the shooter has the initiative to maintain distance (you know, like most mass shooters).

 

[xj0hnx]

Lol, I was merely using the same argument gun nuts use when anti gun people bring up anecdotal evidence, I guess you can dish it out but you can't take it. That's usually how it is with most hypocrites

If you say so, looks more like you're trying to cover your sad little rant.

Btw, I'm neither pro gun or anti gun, I'm pro logic, which explains why I ignore most of your posts.

You, like the vast majority of anti-gun nutjobs, are very, very far from "pro-logic. Your collective arguments against guns, and their owners are based on emotion, and the desire for more dependence on the state.

 

[sunzt]

sweet, cool vid.

After looking at it frame by frame, the key move was the driver sticking his hand out in front of the guy's face before he got in front of the window. Obviously trained well.

 

[Matt1970]

No, if the left got their wish, the criminal wouldn't have had a gun in the first place.

Yep, clearly they have gone after the illegal trafficing of guns. Brandy Bill, Assault Weapons Ban, NY Safe Act as well as those passed in other states are really aimed at getting the illegal guns off the street. /sarcasm

 

[BoomerD]

Every time I've seen this, it looked to me like he took the perp's gun away from him and shot him with it.
The vid quality isn't good enough to see him draw his own weapon...and while that MIGHT have happened, I'm not sure. You never see the perp's gun again after he sticks it in the window.

 

[irishScott]

Every time I've seen this, it looked to me like he took the perp's gun away from him and shot him with it.
The vid quality isn't good enough to see him draw his own weapon...and while that MIGHT have happened, I'm not sure. You never see the perp's gun again after he sticks it in the window.

I downloaded the video and did a frame-by-frame. I'm not sure if the perp just lost his balance or what, but his gun is clearly in his hand as he falls.

 

[blankslate]

Within 5 feet? The speed of reloading is only effective if the shooter has the initiative to maintain distance (you know, like most mass shooters).

Most mass shooters also (being mentally ill in the most infamous recent shootings), probably don't practice reloading their firearms or corrective action in the case of a malfunction.

Because of the the above videos with demonstrators who are reloading 10 round magazine after 10 round magazine to show that mass shooters would not be slowed down compared to having a 30 round magazine in the pistol is an invalid comparison in general (and specifically not really relevant to this thread).

Maybe if the mass shooter set up a barrel or table to set his extra magazines on, before shooting, instead of carrying them in his pocket or waistband (or in a vest in the Colorado case) it would a good comparison.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Most mass shooters also (being mentally ill in the most infamous recent shootings), probably don't practice reloading their firearms or corrective action in the case of a malfunction.

Because of the the above videos with demonstrators who are reloading 10 round magazine after 10 round magazine to show that mass shooters would not be slowed down compared to having a 30 round magazine in the pistol is an invalid comparison in general (and specifically not really relevant to this thread).

Maybe if the mass shooter set up a barrel or table to set his extra magazines on, before shooting, instead of carrying them in his pocket or waistband (or in a vest in the Colorado case) it would a good comparison.

and what if someone carries multiple weapons and simply discards them as the magazine is emptied?

drop empty pistol, bring out next one that is loaded.

 

[Matt1970]

Most mass shooters also (being mentally ill in the most infamous recent shootings), probably don't practice reloading their firearms or corrective action in the case of a malfunction.

Because of the the above videos with demonstrators who are reloading 10 round magazine after 10 round magazine to show that mass shooters would not be slowed down compared to having a 30 round magazine in the pistol is an invalid comparison in general (and specifically not really relevant to this thread).

Maybe if the mass shooter set up a barrel or table to set his extra magazines on, before shooting, instead of carrying them in his pocket or waistband (or in a vest in the Colorado case) it would a good comparison.

Most mass shooters don't need to practice reloading. You can be slow as hell and it won't matter unless you drop your only other magazine.

But lets just keep trying to ban magazine size. Lets keep the potential mass shooters rethinking their weapons choices. It's not like they are any weapons out there that will do a hell of a lot more damage than a 9MM pistol or an AR15. Oh wait, there are. And some of them don't have a magazine. They can be reloaded while a round is ready to go. Try and stop that shooter.

 

[Matt1970]

and what if someone carries multiple weapons and simply discards them as the magazine is emptied?

drop empty pistol, bring out next one that is loaded.

No, they are all going to happen like the Gabrielle Giffords shootings. One man, one weapon. They all have happened that way before.

 

[Jaskalas]

No, if the left got their wish, the criminal wouldn't have had a gun in the first place.

Not really possible. At most you'd get all law abiding citizens disarmed for the criminals to prey on. See Chicago.

 

[irishScott]

Most mass shooters also (being mentally ill in the most infamous recent shootings), probably don't practice reloading their firearms or corrective action in the case of a malfunction.

Because of the the above videos with demonstrators who are reloading 10 round magazine after 10 round magazine to show that mass shooters would not be slowed down compared to having a 30 round magazine in the pistol is an invalid comparison in general (and specifically not really relevant to this thread).

Maybe if the mass shooter set up a barrel or table to set his extra magazines on, before shooting, instead of carrying them in his pocket or waistband (or in a vest in the Colorado case) it would a good comparison.

Have you ever reloaded a gun? Ever? Or cleared a malfunction? I'm assuming no, because you're, really, REALLY stretching with the above. Sorry, but you're wrong and you sound really ignorant. Like 14 year old know-it-all ignorant. You just said that a kid behind a steering wheel can't crash a car because he wouldn't know how to turn the key or press the accelerator. Well sure, if we're assuming the kid is a vegetable on constant life support.

You don't need practice reloading to be fast enough, you just need motivation and basic gross motor skills. It's a VERY simple motion requiring very little coordination, and drawing from a belt is almost identical to drawing from a table. Hell there are even pieces of plastic (or metal) known as mag-wells you can buy that funnel a magazine into the well and take any hint of fine coordination out of the act.

Assuming the shooter maintains any reasonable distance, or is simply surrounded by shocked victims who wouldn't rush them even if they had the chance (like Colorado), magazine capacity restrictions are completely worthless.

Remember, the worst mass shooting in history (Virginia Tech) involved 1 10 round capacity pistol and 1 15 round capacity pistol. Because he simply kept his distance. You can do that when you have the initiative.

 

[xj0hnx]

Every time I've seen this, it looked to me like he took the perp's gun away from him and shot him with it.
The vid quality isn't good enough to see him draw his own weapon...and while that MIGHT have happened, I'm not sure. You never see the perp's gun again after he sticks it in the window.

The perp definitely had his gun as he was fleeing, you see the victim once he is out of the car and walks up to the perp and kick his gun away from his body near the end of the video.

 

[jackofalltrades]

I think a gun ban would have solved this gun fight, it would have never happened right?

 

[BoberFett]

I think a gun ban would have solved this gun fight, it would have never happened right?

That kind of naivete is just adorable. :wub:

 

[blankslate]

Have you ever reloaded a gun? Ever? Or cleared a malfunction? I'm assuming no, because you're, really, REALLY stretching with the above.

Regardless of what you think I have fired weapons and I have dealt with stoppages.

the most irritating one was a failure to extract the round by the bolt carrier. Other failures were much more easily corrected.

As much as you are one of the more reasonable firearms advocates, it doesn't change the fact that a video showing a person with ten rounds in 3 mags firing nearly as quickly as a person with one 30 round magazine also indicates that most people don't really need a 30 round magazine for their pistol. They can get by with 10 round magazines and practiced reloading.

In the most recent such video I've watched, there were demonstrators who were noticeably faster than other demonstrators. Yeah any person who isn't a total idiot can pick up a semi-auto firearm and reload magazines without much problem. However, a person who practices will be noticeably faster at it than a person who doesn't

I haven't really stretched the situation more than some of those videos do either.

Although to be clear my belief is that if the pistol comes with a standard magazine capacity then it shouldn't be arbitrarily limited.

For example if someone wants to buy a .45 caliber pistol that come with a 13 round magazine they should be able to purchase it in any state and keep it in their residence for protection.

Remember, the worst mass shooting in history (Virginia Tech) involved 1 10 round capacity pistol and 1 15 round capacity pistol. Because he simply kept his distance. You can do that when you have the initiative.

In that shooting there were also classrooms that people hid in. He could've slipped inside an unused room or into a stairwell and blocked the door while reloading if people came out to confront him.
Additionally if a murderer in a school is killing people and ducks behind a door it's doubtful that a typical person is going to just open the door, it'd be a risky proposition even for an armed person.

 

[irishScott]

Regardless of what you think I have fired weapons and I have dealt with stoppages.

the most irritating one was a failure to extract the round by the bolt carrier. Other failures were much more easily corrected.

As much as you are one of the more reasonable firearms advocates, it doesn't change the fact that a video showing a person with ten rounds in 3 mags firing nearly as quickly as a person with one 30 round magazine also indicates that most people don't really need a 30 round magazine for their pistol. They can get by with 10. In the most recent such video I've watched, there were demonstrators who were noticeably faster than other demonstrators.

I haven't really stretched the situation more than some of those videos do either.

Although to be clear my belief is that if the pistol comes with a standard magazine capacity then it shouldn't be arbitrarily limited.

For example if someone wants to buy a .45 caliber pistol that come with a 13 round magazine they should be able to purchase it in any state and keep it in their residence for protection.



In that shooting there were also classrooms that people hid in. He could've slipped inside an unused room or into a stairwell and blocked the door while reloading if people came out to confront him.
Additionally if a murderer in a school is killing people and ducks behind a door it's doubtful that a typical person is going to just open the door, it'd be a risky proposition even for an armed person.

But it does, because context matters. Defensive gun use among civilians typically occurs at very close or point plank range, much like the vid I posted. At such ranges the second or two to reload can be decisive, as we're into hand-to-hand range.

In an offensive situation the shooter will likely stay outside of hand-to-hand range to mitigate any such disadvantage. Therefore a shooter will have plenty of time to reload before an unarmed person can intervene.


I agree that most people could "get by" with 10, but there are select situations where more would be required.

 

[blankslate]

But it does, because context matters. Defensive gun use among civilians typically occurs at very close or point plank range, much like the vid I posted. At such ranges the second or two to reload can be decisive, as we're into hand-to-hand range.

The video you posted showing "why mag limits are useless" showed people reloading very fast with enough practice.

It also showed a less trained person being noticeably slower than the others.

Basically, it shows that yes limits on magazine capacities can potentially save lives. The AZ shooter got himself into a situation where he could be disarmed.

I agree that most people could "get by" with 10, but there are select situations where more would be required.

As I said....

Although to be clear my belief is that if the pistol comes with a standard magazine capacity then it shouldn't be arbitrarily limited.

For example if someone wants to buy a .45 caliber pistol that come with a 13 round magazine they should be able to purchase it in any state and keep it in their residence for protection.

If they're able to get a CCW carry for their weapon then they are going beyond what most people do and I expect them to put in more practice time so that they are reloading quickly enough to mitigate the "disandvantage" of only having 10 rounds

If magazine capacity for a CCW weapon matters enough then it will probably be a factor in where a person chooses to live.

 

[Matt1970]

The video you posted showing "why mag limits are useless" showed people reloading very fast with enough practice.

It also showed a less trained person being noticeably slower than the others.

Basically, it shows that yes limits on magazine capacities can potentially save lives. The AZ shooter got himself into a situation where he could be disarmed.



As I said....



If they're able to get a CCW carry for their weapon then they are going beyond what most people do and I expect them to put in more practice time so that they are reloading quickly enough to mitigate the "disandvantage" of only having 10 rounds

If magazine capacity for a CCW weapon matters enough then it will probably be a factor in where a person chooses to live.

In the one and only mass shooting that was stopped during a magazine reload the size of the magazine may have been a factor. He had 2 33-round magazines. Maybe he wouldn't have dropped it if it were a smaller capacity. I have a 30 round magazine for one of my guns. That is a big heavy magazine and you can easily drop it if you are not sure-handed.

 

[Nintendesert]

But it does, because context matters. Defensive gun use among civilians typically occurs at very close or point plank range, much like the vid I posted. At such ranges the second or two to reload can be decisive, as we're into hand-to-hand range.

In an offensive situation the shooter will likely stay outside of hand-to-hand range to mitigate any such disadvantage. Therefore a shooter will have plenty of time to reload before an unarmed person can intervene.


I agree that most people could "get by" with 10, but there are select situations where more would be required.

Getting by with 10 means I go to a much larger caliber. :thumbsup:

 

[piasabird]

Just hand over your money and valuables and when they leave shoot them in the back. Most people are terrible shots if they have not practiced. Often in police shootouts people miss at point blank range. A typical double action revolver or 45 may have quite a bit of movement as you pull the trigger. A moving target is also harder to hit.

This all assumes the assailant isnt a gang of people that just beat you to death.

 

[OverVolt]

Obviously it mean that people don't need more than ten round capacity mags. This guy neutralized a threat while he had a gun on him. So anyone can do it.

Just like when people show off videos with people reloading 10 round magazines rapidly in succession then firing dozens of rounds quickly. It shows that people don't need 12, 13, 15, 17 or 20 rounds in a magazine.

Which is why the bans are dumb. Because magazine size doesn't matter that much. If someone wants 30 let them have 30. It doesn't matter.

 

[ivwshane]

Which is why the bans are dumb. Because magazine size doesn't matter that much. If someone wants 30 let them have 30. It doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter or doesn't matter much?

 

[OverVolt]

If the guy was able to draw and put down one assailant when he already had a gun pointed at him then surely he was able to reload if needed very quickly.

No thats about right at the limit of what is humanly possible but nice try.