colorado wants to collect DNA from anyone arrested

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: McCarthy
Wow, some of you folks sure are trusting of the government.

They're only here to help you!

And they never make mistakes!

Well done. You've convinced me.

WTS: tinfoil hat.

what the hell can they do with DNA? clone you?

EDIT: gah, someone beat me to it.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: legoman666

Originally posted by: McCarthy
Wow, some of you folks sure are trusting of the government.

They're only here to help you!

And they never make mistakes!

Well done. You've convinced me.

WTS: tinfoil hat.

what the hell can they do with DNA? clone you?

EDIT: gah, someone beat me to it.

The courts and the general public ( your jury pool ) are so swayed by the wonderful science of DNA that it is all that is needed to convict somebody. This belief coupled with lack of an alibi makes it all too easy to plant some DNA and frame somebody.

 

[waggy]

I am two minds about this. i don't think they should be gathering such information but it could help when needed.


trouble is (i feel) that if they start doing it for this then they are going to start takeing DNA much more. such as if a crime happens in a area forcing everyone to get a DNA test. or places of employment doing it etc.

i am willing to bet that in 10-20 years giving DNA will be mandtory no matter what. to keep it on record etc.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If they want it that bad, just fucking take a sample when we're born. One step closer to militant rule, and the illusion of privacy.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

 

[Saulbadguy]

There HAS to be a statistic showing that a large percentage of violent criminals have been arrested before for lesser crimes.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: BrownTown
I can't speak for everyone, but I will just explain my biggest reason for being against this, and why I think my reason is a bad one. I know when I first went to work and they wanted me to get fingerprinted, and have a drug test and all that it kind of annoyed me. But the reason was because somewhere in my mind I LIKE the though that maybe if I really wanted/needed to commit a crime at some point that I could get away with it, I mean before they had my fingerprints in the FBI database I could have left fingerprints and DNA and hairs and all that at a crime scene and if they never had me as a suspect they would never be able to implicate me. Now that is no longer true, if I were to kill someone they would get my fingerprints and BOOM up pops my name and I'm screwed. But in reality no big deal, I'll jsut wear gloves and be fine, that is where DNA comes in, it just makes it THAT much harder for me to commit a crime. IF they had my DNA then even the slightest trace I left behind could link me to a crime and in a way that annoys, me, it limits my FREEDOM, but in reality, only my freedom to commit crime. I personally think this is a GOOD thing to limit, and am OK with this. It honestly makes me have to reevaluate my ability to commit crimes and makes me less likely to commit them I believe, and having DNA testing would further encourage me not to commit crime. And for those too dumb to be discouraged, then they would be caught more often and sent to jail.

I guess thats only me talking, but ask yourself WHAT FREEDOM does this restrict other than your freedom to commit crime? IMO, that is all that is restricted, and that is a good thing so far as I am concerned.

And see, I almost wonder if on some level this is what most people who are opposed to this are thinking. I'm not saying ATOTers are premeditating killers or anything, but I think a majority of people would be capable of a violent crime in the heat of the moment. And if your DNA was on file, you'd probably be screwed, or at least a lot more screwed than if it wasn't. So just to be safe why not oppose such laws under the pretense of it being an invasion of privacy.

Thanks for being honest at least.

I am opposed to it because the government ALWAYS asks for an inch and takes a mile. Right now they just want to file the DNA of people arrested (READ: Not convicted). Next they will want a big ass database of EVERYONE. Doesn't sound like a big deal right? I mean, DNA is really just like a fingerprint right?

What about in 20 years when its much easier to determine "traits" from DNA. What if we locate a gene that puts people at greater risk of mental disease. Of course, the government should be proactive in protecting society from these people that have a higher risk of mental disease right? At the very least they should put them on some list somewhere so they can keep an eye on you right?

Of course none of that is going to happen. I mean, the government has never abused databases like that to profile people before right? Bullshit, the government recently used peoples CREDIT SCORES in their risk calculations for people to be added to the "no fly" or "watch list". Wanna take a wild guess at how many people have been unjustly added to that list, denied travel within the country, denied entry into the country or had to endure a ton of extra crap at the airport? Congressmen and Senators have been hassled because of that list. If THEY are bitching about how hard it is to get removed from the list then how well do you think you or I will fare?

Of course, only terrorists need to worry about the no fly list right? If the government is willing to use your credit score to determine if you are a risk to national security do you really think they won't use your DNA in other ways when the technology matures?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

 

[T9D]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

 

[waffleironhead]

Want my DNA copper?

Blow me......

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

I didn't claim the contrary.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
I am opposed to it because the government ALWAYS asks for an inch and takes a mile. Right now they just want to file the DNA of people arrested (READ: Not convicted). Next they will want a big ass database of EVERYONE. Doesn't sound like a big deal right? I mean, DNA is really just like a fingerprint right?

What about in 20 years when its much easier to determine "traits" from DNA. What if we locate a gene that puts people at greater risk of mental disease. Of course, the government should be proactive in protecting society from these people that have a higher risk of mental disease right? At the very least they should put them on some list somewhere so they can keep an eye on you right?

Of course none of that is going to happen. I mean, the government has never abused databases like that to profile people before right? Bullshit, the government recently used peoples CREDIT SCORES in their risk calculations for people to be added to the "no fly" or "watch list". Wanna take a wild guess at how many people have been unjustly added to that list, denied travel within the country, denied entry into the country or had to endure a ton of extra crap at the airport? Congressmen and Senators have been hassled because of that list. If THEY are bitching about how hard it is to get removed from the list then how well do you think you or I will fare?

Of course, only terrorists need to worry about the no fly list right? If the government is willing to use your credit score to determine if you are a risk to national security do you really think they won't use your DNA in other ways when the technology matures?

I'm not 100% on this, but from what I understand of DNA forensics (at least using STR, I know there are various methods, but STR is what's used in most/all US labs), all they are interested in is 13 specific points on a certain area of the DNA. I'd assume what they are talking about is having people's STR profile on database, which is completely different than having a chunk of your DNA on ice or something like that (which, if you're into all the conspiracy theories, could lead to cloning, profiling, etc. in the future). I don't think the 13 markers used for STR comparison really contains any information pertaining to genetic traits, it's just useful for comparison purposes.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: waggy
I am two minds about this. i don't think they should be gathering such information but it could help when needed.


trouble is (i feel) that if they start doing it for this then they are going to start takeing DNA much more. such as if a crime happens in a area forcing everyone to get a DNA test. or places of employment doing it etc.

i am willing to bet that in 10-20 years giving DNA will be mandtory no matter what. to keep it on record etc.

al la gattaca

 

[KMFJD]

Anyone for this is batshiat insane....one step closer to 1984

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

I and most of my friends are reasonably well educated, white, and decently well off (able to provide a good defense). We're not attractive targets.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

I don't need to know someone personally to be upset when a miscarriage of justice is inflicted upon them. Wrong is wrong whether it involves my next door neighbor or some anonymous citizen I have never met.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

I don't need to know someone personally to be upset when a miscarriage of justice is inflicted upon them. Wrong is wrong whether it involves my next door neighbor or some anonymous citizen I have never met.

jesus :roll:

i'm not going there anymore. my original rebuttal was that saying anyone can be arrested at anytime for anything is wrong. there has to be suspicion, whether that suspicion proves to be false later on isn't what i was getting into.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Darwin333
I am opposed to it because the government ALWAYS asks for an inch and takes a mile. Right now they just want to file the DNA of people arrested (READ: Not convicted). Next they will want a big ass database of EVERYONE. Doesn't sound like a big deal right? I mean, DNA is really just like a fingerprint right?

What about in 20 years when its much easier to determine "traits" from DNA. What if we locate a gene that puts people at greater risk of mental disease. Of course, the government should be proactive in protecting society from these people that have a higher risk of mental disease right? At the very least they should put them on some list somewhere so they can keep an eye on you right?

Of course none of that is going to happen. I mean, the government has never abused databases like that to profile people before right? Bullshit, the government recently used peoples CREDIT SCORES in their risk calculations for people to be added to the "no fly" or "watch list". Wanna take a wild guess at how many people have been unjustly added to that list, denied travel within the country, denied entry into the country or had to endure a ton of extra crap at the airport? Congressmen and Senators have been hassled because of that list. If THEY are bitching about how hard it is to get removed from the list then how well do you think you or I will fare?

Of course, only terrorists need to worry about the no fly list right? If the government is willing to use your credit score to determine if you are a risk to national security do you really think they won't use your DNA in other ways when the technology matures?

I'm not 100% on this, but from what I understand of DNA forensics (at least using STR, I know there are various methods, but STR is what's used in most/all US labs), all they are interested in is 13 specific points on a certain area of the DNA. I'd assume what they are talking about is having people's STR profile on database, which is completely different than having a chunk of your DNA on ice or something like that (which, if you're into all the conspiracy theories, could lead to cloning, profiling, etc. in the future). I don't think the 13 markers used for STR comparison really contains any information pertaining to genetic traits, it's just useful for comparison purposes.

thats now. what about in 10-20 years? they are improving DNA research all the time.

it just starts something i think nobody is going to want in 10-20 years (well except for those in power).

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

I and most of my friends are reasonably well educated, white, and decently well off (able to provide a good defense). We're not attractive targets.

just like the Duke Lacrosse players? :laugh:

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

I and most of my friends are reasonably well educated, white, and decently well off (able to provide a good defense). We're not attractive targets.

just like the Duke Lacrosse players? :laugh:

That's why Nifong got caught, the defendants had the resources to fight back in that case.

Any bets on how many other people he might have put away that could be innocent?

 

[crystal]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: v1001

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
don't do the crime

Ha, you don't have to "do the crime." You can be arrested at any time for anything.

No. You cannot be arrested "at any time for "anything". There has to be reasonable suspicion/evidence against you.

Yeah no one has every been falsely accused. Or picked up because they looked like the criminal they were looking for. The point was someone didn't have to have done an actual crime.

Or had a prosecutor conceal exculpatory evidence in order to obtain convictions....

Let's just pick that needle out of a haystack.

Do you know of anyone that has happened to? Like it's a common occurrence? Sure, once is too much, but to say that you can be arrested anytime for anything is false. I have never been arrested, falsely or otherwise, have you?

One recent high profile example: Text

It happens a lot more than most people think. Prosecutors (being elected) are interested in convictions not justice. Most people don't understand that distinction.

Yeh, I could probably find someone in the news that it's happened to, because the media reports this stuff. It's their job.
I am saying I don't know of anyone personally, and neither do you.

That is like saying you don't care about the issue or it is a non issue until it affects you personally...