college football monday

[GotIssues]

So you post a link to a known SEC bashing website (which I didn't even bother to click), nice comeback to the actual facts that I posted.

Oh, so since my facts counter your argument, it's obvious not worth anything, right? Go fuck yourself. If you are just gonna cry about sources that contradict your pathetically feeble argument, then it's not worth the time or effort to try to educate your ignorant ass.

Here's another fact, Louisiana has the most NFL players per capita in the entire nation. Maybe athletes are just superior in the south?

Do you know what per capita means? Maybe you should figure that one out before you go on further and make yourself look like an even bigger retarded dipshit.

 

[Tim]

Oh, so since my facts counter your argument, it's obvious not worth anything, right? Go fuck yourself. If you are just gonna cry about sources that contradict your pathetically feeble argument, then it's not worth the time or effort to try to educate your ignorant ass.



Do you know what per capita means? Maybe you should figure that one out before you go on further and make yourself look like an even bigger retarded dipshit.

Yes, I do know what per capita means, do you? Your continued personal attacks really back up your points .

BTW, the website you linked clearly shows other schools in other conferences doing the same thing. I only clicked to prove what I already knew after the fact.

Admit it, you're just jealous that the college FB team you cheer for hasn't sniffed greatness in a few years, or possibly longer.

 

[GotIssues]

Since we got sidetracked with the mud slinging, let's get back to the main issue that GotIssues brought up (heh!). I'm personally just wondering whether the following statement of his is true or not:



My question is for the SEC guys, of course. Yes or no answer is the only thing I need from you guys. No explanation is needed.

It is 100% true, but SEC fans want to believe they have something special, not that they are treating athletes like they are disposible to get an extra edge. Alabama is one of the worst offenders.

Ever wonder why Oklahoma State came out of nowhere? Hint: They should be in the SEC with their level of oversigning.

 

[BergeLSU]

others are doing it but the SEC is the worst about it
http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/recruiting-numbers/

LSU is borderline about the practice, auburn is flat abusive.

Is it a perfect system? No.
But why should a school not sign an extra guy when a current player on the team has had so many concussions that doctors will not let him play anymore? Or a guy who is eating a scholarship refuses to give 100% to the team?

Any other scholarship offered to a student by a school, whether it is offered by the alumni association, the music department, the departments, or organizations, are all 1-year agreements. If you meet their set requirements, they get renewed. If not, you lose it. For some reason, people think athletic scholarships should not be performance-based.

If I were a 4.0 high school student with a 36 ACT score, I would go to college with the expectations of keeping high scores. If I underperform, I lose my scholarship. But for athletes, some people think it should be a 4-year agreement no matter what. If I were a 5-star RB who got fat and didn't exercise, and LSU cut me, oversigning.com would write an article saying I got cheated and LSU is an evil corporation.

Also, none of this accounts for attrition at all. Players drop out of school. They transfer. They leave for the NFL early. LSU averages about 2 juniors a year that leave early over the last decade. Signing 100 guys over 4 years, LSU would be 7 over right now, without including transfers, dropouts, or players kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons.

 

[GotIssues]

Yes, I do know what per capita means, do you? Your continued personal attacks really back up your points .

Obviously you have no fucking clue, otherwise you wouldn't try and use that as your argument.

BTW, the website you linked clearly shows other schools in other conferences doing the same thing.

I didn't say there weren't other schools, I said the SEC was the worst, by far, and the pioneers of the pathetically unethical practice. 10 of the 12 SEC schools are WAAAAY over. Vandy and UGA are the only schools with a semblence of ethics.

You are trying to use the actions of others to justify your own misdeeds. What a pathetic argument.

 

[ElFenix]

Is it a perfect system? No.
But why should a school not sign an extra guy when a current player on the team has had so many concussions that doctors will not let him play anymore? Or a guy who is eating a scholarship refuses to give 100% to the team?

Any other scholarship offered to a student by a school, whether it is offered by the alumni association, the music department, the departments, or organizations, are all 1-year agreements. If you meet their set requirements, they get renewed. If not, you lose it. For some reason, people think athletic scholarships should not be performance-based.

If I were a 4.0 high school student with a 36 ACT score, I would go to college with the expectations of keeping high scores. If I underperform, I lose my scholarship. But for athletes, some people think it should be a 4-year agreement no matter what. If I were a 5-star RB who got fat and didn't exercise, and LSU cut me, oversigning.com would write an article saying I got cheated and LSU is an evil corporation.

Also, none of this accounts for attrition at all. Players drop out of school. They transfer. They leave for the NFL early. LSU averages about 2 juniors a year that leave early over the last decade.

which is why i said 'borderline.' kids who transfer, leave early, red shirts, kids who get fat, can be legit reasons that number changes from 21.25.

auburn's at 28.

 

[GotIssues]

Is it a perfect system? No.
But why should a school not sign an extra guy when a current player on the team has had so many concussions that doctors will not let him play anymore? Or a guy who is eating a scholarship refuses to give 100% to the team?

1) The guy with a concussion isn't eating a scholarship. Medical Hardships do not count against scholarship limits. Ironically, players at SEC schools also have a much, much higher rate of getting "injured" to the point they need to use a Medical Hardship.
2) You are cutting a guy because you failed at recruiting. Not every recruit pans out, that doesn't mean the promise you made to him should be null and void.

Any other scholarship offered to a student by a school, whether it is offered by the alumni association, the music department, the departments, or organizations, are all 1-year agreements. If you meet their set requirements, they get renewed. If not, you lose it. For some reason, people think athletic scholarships should not be performance-based.

I don't agree, but this is the absolute first reasonable argument made in favor of it. Kudos.

If I were a 4.0 high school student with a 36 ACT score, I would go to college with the expectations of keeping high scores. If I underperform, I lose my scholarship. But for athletes, some people think it should be a 4-year agreement no matter what. If I were a 5-star RB who got fat and didn't exercise, and LSU cut me, oversigning.com would write an article saying I got cheated and LSU is an evil corporation.

Two problems:
1) Academic success in HS has a very high correlation with academic success in college. They aren't worlds apart, whereas sports are much, much different.
2) You aren't risking lifelong injuries in academia.

 

[Tim]

Obviously you have no fucking clue, otherwise you wouldn't try and use that as your argument.



I didn't say there weren't other schools, I said the SEC was the worst, by far, and the pioneers of the pathetically unethical practice. 10 of the 12 SEC schools are WAAAAY over. Vandy and UGA are the only schools with a semblence of ethics.

You are trying to use the actions of others to justify your own misdeeds. What a pathetic argument.

If it is within the bounds of the current rule set, then it isn't really a misdeed, is it? It doesn't mean it's right. Other schools do this same shit, but the only ones you harp on are the ones in the SEC because they "do it more". If you really think that the oversigning of players is the only reason that the SEC is running the table right now, then you're just being ignorant. I'm done with you.

 

[BergeLSU]

which is why i said 'borderline.' kids who transfer, leave early, red shirts, kids who get fat, can be legit reasons that number changes from 21.25.

auburn's at 28.

Yes, and I know every fan from every SEC school looked at Ole Miss in 2009 when they signed 37 players and said "WTF?"

However, as fans we don't know what goes on inside practice. Les Miles got a lot of flack for cutting Chris Garrett (QB). He tried to get the media on his side too. Garrett transferred away to Ole Miss, and he couldn't even get into the 3-deep at QB on a 4-8 team. I don't see why he should get his way paid through school. He is welcome to tryout and walk-on.

 

[GotIssues]

Admit it, you're just jealous that the college FB team you cheer for hasn't sniffed greatness in a few years, or possibly longer.

Nice try for the "umadbro" hail mary. I hope it makes you feel better, because your arguments are pathetic (and they back up my claims). All your hard hitting "proof" you were going to "throw in my face" just blew up in yours. How dumb can you be?


Oversigning is a major problem. Athletes go through a lot to play football in college, and to treat them like shit and throwing them away the second something better comes along needs to stop.

Trying to justify this type of treatment "because others do it" and trying to use results as justification for the means shows just how much of a pathetic person you are. There is no ethical way to defend this practice of oversigning to the degree that the SEC does.

 

[BergeLSU]

Two problems:
1) Academic success in HS has a very high correlation with academic success in college. They aren't worlds apart, whereas sports are much, much different.
2) You aren't risking lifelong injuries in academia.

If these players were doing their full work-load in class, then I would agree with you, but the world knows that 90% of these guys are not. Criminology must be the most popular major among athletes, followed by "general studies."

I am in favor of football players being able to major in "Football" (and basketball players in "Basketball," etc.) with their classes being practice. This would be for the guys who go to college with the expectations of the NFL (NBA, etc.). Their grades would be based on how they perform in practice, all subjectively decided by the coaches. They would still be required to take the general classes (basic math, science, literature) like every major, but they would have their own "department." Those players who still want to major in other degrees would still take "electives" in football. And even still, they would have the allotted practice time outside of school. This would create a stiffer system with these scholarships.

 

[GotIssues]

If it is within the bounds of the current rule set, then it isn't really a misdeed, is it? It doesn't mean it's right. Other schools do this same shit, but the only ones you harp on are the ones in the SEC because they "do it more".

"Other people are doing it, so it's fine."

Pathetic excuse for treating HS playing like garbage.

If you really think that the oversigning of players is the only reason that the SEC is running the table right now, then you're just being ignorant.

SEC has no advantage that a dozen schools outside the SEC don't have... except an extra 20-30 players to go through. If you are too fucking stupid to understand how big of advantage that is, then you are way too fucking stupid to try to reason with.

I'm done with you.

The only argument you ever present was "because a couple other schools did it." You are a pathetic little fanboy who has no ethical or moral concept if you think the way they treat players is ok. The only thing you've done is provide numbers that proved how bad the SEC was oversigning screaming "Other teams do it, look at these couple over there!" - thus admitting my statement to be true.

Not everyone has a win at all costs attitude. Some people actually care what happens to the players getting screwed by oversigning. Until you actually have proof or some sort of rational defense to the SEC's practice, stay the fuck out of these conversations.

 

[edro]

SEC gets more recruits because of the weather.

 

[GotIssues]

If these players were doing their full work-load in class, then I would agree with you, but the world knows that 90% of these guys are not. Criminology must be the most popular major among athletes, followed by "general studies."

And the data from your scientific study of "Majors of Football Players"? Yeah, thought so.

Football players still have a courseload of (I believe) 6+ credits. Just like someone paying their way, they choose their major. If they choose to waste their chance at education, that's their decision.

I am in favor of football players being able to major in "Football" (and basketball players in "Basketball," etc.) with their classes being practice. This would be for the guys who go to college with the expectations of the NFL (NBA, etc.).

Just because you expect to be in the NFL doesn't mean you will be.

Their grades would be based on how they perform in practice, all subjectively decided by the coaches. They would still be required to take the general classes (basic math, science, literature) like every major, but they would have their own "department." Those players who still want to major in other degrees would still take "electives" in football. And even still, they would have the allotted practice time outside of school. This would create a stiffer system with these scholarships.

How would that create a stiffer system on the scholarships? It just lets the coach assign a grade to those people he's going to cut. Not to mention, completely hose over kids who would otherwise have been forced to get an education (useful or not, a degree is worth more than not having one).

 

[GotIssues]

SEC gets more recruits because of the weather.

Lol.

I don't think you are following the conversation very well.

 

[BergeLSU]

And the data from your scientific study of "Majors of Football Players"? Yeah, thought so.

Football players still have a courseload of (I believe) 6+ credits. Just like someone paying their way, they choose their major. If they choose to waste their chance at education, that's their decision.

Yeah, football players go to class and contribute like all other students.

:whiste:

Oh, and since you can't seem to get sarcasm:

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I was going to come in and say that the Rose Bowl was possibly the most entertaining bowl game I've ever seen (helps that Oregon won it); record-breaking scoring in like 5 different regards, a record-breaking run, a running back who averaged an 80-yard-touchdown per carry... Phenomenal offensive display, fun game all around (although who the hell tries to spike it with 2 seconds left?).

That said, I see this has devolved into a "my conference is better than your conference," "nuh uh," "FUCK YOU" conversation, so I'll just see my way out.

 

[GotIssues]

Yeah, football players go to class and contribute like all other students.

:whiste:

I'm not sure if you've actually been to college, but participation is often voluntary and most students choose not to do so. Football players are required to go to class and probably participate at a similar level as the average student.

Oh, and since you can't seem to get sarcasm:

So I should have read the article that you read so that I could get your reference and sarcasm? Do you understand why that might have been a poor assumption on your part?

Your graphic also points out how many of them are using their time to get an education. There are 85 players on scholarship any given year on a NCAA D-IA team, and probably 70 of them know for fact that they aren't going pro (there are probably 10-12 players who have dreams but won't make it) and use the opportunity to get an education. Losing your scholarship so that the next best thing can come in is a perversion of what the scholarships are supposed to do.

 

[GotIssues]

That said, I see this has devolved into a "my conference is better than your conference," "nuh uh," "FUCK YOU" conversation, so I'll just see my way out.

The discussion was never about which football conference is better, it's about oversigning. If you seriously got that from the posts, it's probably best that you do see yourself out, because you can't follow a simple conversation.

 

[kalrith]

The discussion was never about which football conference is better, it's about oversigning. If you seriously got that from the posts, it's probably best that you do see yourself out, because you can't follow a simple conversation.

I'm with Atomic Playboy on this one. This thread started as a thread about "college football monday" and denegrated to a thread about oversigning with attacks and immature language being thrown back and forth. Maybe you guys should start a P&N thread about oversigning.

 

[SP33Demon]

I've never seen so much crying and jealousy about the SEC in one thread. /handsouttissues They are the best conference because of tradition, recent success, and better weather.

 

[ElFenix]

wtf is agricultural journalism

 

[shiner]

wtf is agricultural journalism

Ever heard of Les Nessman, winner of The Silver Sow Award and five time winner of the Buckeye Newshawk Award?

 

[KeithTalent]

Ever heard of Les Nessman, winner of The Silver Sow Award and five time winner of the Buckeye Newshawk Award?

Lol win. :awe:

KT

 

[GotIssues]

I've never seen so much crying and jealousy about the SEC in one thread. /handsouttissues They are the best conference because of tradition, recent success, and better weather.

You're an idiot if you think an extra 20-30 players per cycle isn't a huge advantage. It has everything to do with mathematics. Ohio States, Michigans, USCs, Texas', Alabamas, LSUs, etc have similar tradition and facilities are pretty much a wash. The weather is overplayed by ignorant people, since good weather isn't purely a phenomenon in SEC country.

Average team (by average, I mean average of a Top Tier team) 85 scholarship players of which you'll have:

1 All American caliber
4 All conference caliber
20 Solid contributors caliber (starters, maybe some backups with playing time)
30 Solid Backups
15 Mediocre players
15 That really didn't pan out

Remove the bottom 1/4 and replace with the same, average spread of players, it looks like this:
1.25 All Americans
5 All conference
25 Solid contributor
37.5 Solid Backup
18.75 Mediocre
3.75 That didn't pan out

Over time, it compounds out (to a level where is hits diminishing returns). They are literally doing this exact process, treating the recruits as a number, not a person whom they made a promise to.

If you fuckwits are too dumb to see how it works still, then frankly, you'll just remain ignorant forever, either out of choice (it's easier to believe your team earned the success than cheated to obtain it) or inability to grasp the concept.