College bills, who pays?

[PingSpike]

College expenses are pretty nuts now, and continue to get worse. I hear the student loans some people end up with and sometimes I wonder. You hear everyone in highschool going "do what you love!" well, thats a bunch of shit IMO. If you love doing social work and you graduate with 50K in student loan debt it seems like you'll be starting out crippled.

My parents paid my tuition and I commuted from home to a moderately expensive instate school. I started out with zero, and I've come to really appreciate that starting position! My wife went to a very expensive private instate school, had to pay tuition + room and board all on her own. Because her parents made so little money and she had busted her ass to secure a good deal of scholarships she graduated with on 4K of student loan debt.

This has been a sticking point in our future plans. Having received little from her parents she wants to toss our kids out on their own. I, however, feel obligated to pay it forward.

One thing you have to remember though is to never short change your retirement to pay for the kids school. The last thing I'd want to do is become a burden to my kids right when they were trying to build their own families. Basically, you have to help yourself before you can help others.

Everyone has different opinions on this stuff of course.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: ViRGE
A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college.

College degree is not the answer to everything. There are many productive and successful people without a college degree and that's not going to change in the future. You're forgetting one big avenue for those who don't want or need college degree: Trades. Demand for skilled tradesmen far outpace the available talent. With so many people today clueless and lazy to build, install, and fix things, skill trades are booming. Just look at the number of handymen services you see today. People in the past wouldn't be caught dead hiring someone to fix simple stuff around the house. Now people don't even know the simple tools in a tool box set.

This is very true. A guy I went to high school with went and got an associates degree in business and then went on to become a jouneyman plumber last I heard. I thought that was an excellent path to take. Plumbers make good money, and they likely always will!

There's his problem.

An associates degree isn't worth much, but I don't think anything more is part of his plan. He probably just wanted to get a little education in business, hoping to open his own plumbing business in the future. And I wasn't aware that he had any problems...last I checked he was doing fine.

 

[jupiter57]

Originally posted by: everman
Great if they can afford it, but kids are not entitled to it.

QFT!

Parents that care will help as much as financially possible, (Though some can afford nothing more than encouragement), but it is in no way an entitlement.

None of my family made it to college straight out of High School, & my Dad certainly couldn't afford any financial help. However, I persevered and I was 43 when I got my degree, this has inspired my younger brother to pursue his degree also.

Of course, my Grandson is quite a different story. I have (hopefully) put up enough to cover his tuition & expenses (After interest, of course, he's only 1 year old!), but that is because I have the means, and I know the tribulations of desperately wanting to attend college and not being able to. I just want him to have the opportunity. No ifs, ands, or buts. Should he choose not to attend, well, that will be up to him. The money will still be his, but he will have to wait until age 25 to get it.

 

[middlehead]

Originally posted by: esun
I think it depends. Let's say the parent pays for the first year of college. The student gets C's and D's and barely passes. Should the parents feel obligated to continue paying? I'd say no.

I've thought about this sort of method; first year is paid in full, subsequent years are paid in part, depending on the grades of the previous year.

 

[Skotty]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
No one owes you anything in this life except yourself. If your parents have the means and the will to help you with college then consider it a blessing and never forget what they have done for you. If your parents can't or won't help you then you are only hurting yourself sitting around feeling like you have been cheated, because you have not. If you want a college education but won't do what it takes to achieve one then you really don't deserve it in the first place.

:thumbsup:

 

[ViviTheMage]

my parents wont/are not paying for mine.

 

[jmanny]

Bieng a parent of a son going to School in August, I will pay what I can. He will need to get a loan/scholarships to pay what I can't.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Certainly parents don't have to pay for college, but baring financial circumstances where they can't they really should. A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college. That said it makes more sense for the parents to pay when possible because they have the better financial resources to do so, making a student pay is going to be more expensive in the long run when said kid is trying to afford a a place to live(which in an of itself is spiraling out of control) and heavy student loans at the same time. At the very least, as parents in a traditional nuclear family(i.e. the kids take care of you) it's in your own interests to see that they're as successful as possible.

Wow... a waste huh, you must be one of those people. No "college educated" person would say such a stupid statement without some research. Which would clearly prove you wrong.

 

[AlgaeEater]

Growing up in a stereotypical Asian household, this is almost a given that the parents help their children through college and expect the children to return the favor when the parents are about to enter retirement age. (IE: Transition into college and then graduate for helping transition into retirement and finally retiring for parents)

I hate to say that bachelor's degrees now-a-days are the almost (not quite) equivalent of high school diplomas of times past. It's almost a base requirement rather than a huge achievement for most professional jobs.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Certainly parents don't have to pay for college, but baring financial circumstances where they can't they really should. A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college. That said it makes more sense for the parents to pay when possible because they have the better financial resources to do so, making a student pay is going to be more expensive in the long run when said kid is trying to afford a a place to live(which in an of itself is spiraling out of control) and heavy student loans at the same time. At the very least, as parents in a traditional nuclear family(i.e. the kids take care of you) it's in your own interests to see that they're as successful as possible.

Wow... a waste huh, you must be one of those people. No "college educated" person would say such a stupid statement without some research. Which would clearly prove you wrong.

No, I stand by my statement. The statistics for someone with just a HS diploma are worse in every way from income to crime to health. Everyone else in this country is going to have a bachelor's degree, good luck trying to land a job(of the few that you're not completely unqualified for due to a lack of a degree) when everyone else applying has had more education than you.

A high school education isn't enough, it's the equivalent of coming out with the knowledge to tie your shoes. We're seeing the same thing we saw at the start of the 20th century; society is advancing and you need more knowledge to properly operate in it. First 8th grade was enough, then 12th grade, now the bar is a 4 year degree.

 

[AFB]

One has a moral obligation to follow through with ones actions when it involves others. You should not knowingly bring children into this world without the mental, financial and physical means to care for them. There's an attitude that children should be greatful for being born, like it's some sort of honor, or zir choice. These children have serious quality of life issues, but as long as the kid's alive everything is hunky dory. People in dire poverty should not have kids anymore than, 55 year old mothers, or drug abusers. That's just irresponsible. Will they? Of course.

People should take care of their children and nurture them best they can. Just because you're not legally obligated to provide for them doesn't mean you should kick them in the ass.

On the topic of college: Parents obviously should help their children the best they can, which is not always financially. If you make $100K+ a year, it should not be a significant burden to send Billy to State U. If you're making more like $30K of even more, then you'll run into some issues (including some that aren't covered by scholarships or finaid). On the other hand, if it starts to run into year six and Billy is calling home for beer money, your financial contributions are not helping him. Some kids won't be greatful, others will. More likely that's because of your own actions in the past 18 years.

I'm not saying you're owned college or much of anything else because that's a pointless debate, but parents morally should make the best effort to help their children be successful. What that means depends on each individual kid. Just because your parents did one thing doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It's just what they did for you.

Don't be a jerk, help your kids as best you can.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Certainly parents don't have to pay for college, but baring financial circumstances where they can't they really should. A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college. That said it makes more sense for the parents to pay when possible because they have the better financial resources to do so, making a student pay is going to be more expensive in the long run when said kid is trying to afford a a place to live(which in an of itself is spiraling out of control) and heavy student loans at the same time. At the very least, as parents in a traditional nuclear family(i.e. the kids take care of you) it's in your own interests to see that they're as successful as possible.

Wow... a waste huh, you must be one of those people. No "college educated" person would say such a stupid statement without some research. Which would clearly prove you wrong.

No, I stand by my statement. The statistics for someone with just a HS diploma are worse in every way from income to crime to health. Everyone else in this country is going to have a bachelor's degree, good luck trying to land a job(of the few that you're not completely unqualified for due to a lack of a degree) when everyone else applying has had more education than you.

A high school education isn't enough, it's the equivalent of coming out with the knowledge to tie your shoes. We're seeing the same thing we saw at the start of the 20th century; society is advancing and you need more knowledge to properly operate in it. First 8th grade was enough, then 12th grade, now the bar is a 4 year degree.

Well at least I will know how to tie my shoes in the poorhouse.

You have to admit there will be exceptions right?

Most of the jobs I see will choose someone with 10 years work experience in that field over 10 years education, book smarts and world smarts are two different things.

 

[SampSon]

No, let the kids loan their own money.

Parents should focus on saving their money for retirement. You can borrow boatloads of money for school, you can't borrow for retirement.

Sure giving them some money to help out with living expenses is just being a good parent. Paying their full tution and everything is making it too easy.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Certainly parents don't have to pay for college, but baring financial circumstances where they can't they really should. A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college. That said it makes more sense for the parents to pay when possible because they have the better financial resources to do so, making a student pay is going to be more expensive in the long run when said kid is trying to afford a a place to live(which in an of itself is spiraling out of control) and heavy student loans at the same time. At the very least, as parents in a traditional nuclear family(i.e. the kids take care of you) it's in your own interests to see that they're as successful as possible.

Wow... a waste huh, you must be one of those people. No "college educated" person would say such a stupid statement without some research. Which would clearly prove you wrong.

No, I stand by my statement. The statistics for someone with just a HS diploma are worse in every way from income to crime to health. Everyone else in this country is going to have a bachelor's degree, good luck trying to land a job(of the few that you're not completely unqualified for due to a lack of a degree) when everyone else applying has had more education than you.

A high school education isn't enough, it's the equivalent of coming out with the knowledge to tie your shoes. We're seeing the same thing we saw at the start of the 20th century; society is advancing and you need more knowledge to properly operate in it. First 8th grade was enough, then 12th grade, now the bar is a 4 year degree.

Well at least I will know how to tie my shoes in the poorhouse.

You have to admit there will be exceptions right?

Most of the jobs I see will choose someone with 10 years work experience in that field over 10 years education, book smarts and world smarts are two different things.

right.

but a degree really helps open the door for the first few years of experiance after that it is not as important.

 

[AlgaeEater]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Certainly parents don't have to pay for college, but baring financial circumstances where they can't they really should. A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college. That said it makes more sense for the parents to pay when possible because they have the better financial resources to do so, making a student pay is going to be more expensive in the long run when said kid is trying to afford a a place to live(which in an of itself is spiraling out of control) and heavy student loans at the same time. At the very least, as parents in a traditional nuclear family(i.e. the kids take care of you) it's in your own interests to see that they're as successful as possible.

Wow... a waste huh, you must be one of those people. No "college educated" person would say such a stupid statement without some research. Which would clearly prove you wrong.

No, I stand by my statement. The statistics for someone with just a HS diploma are worse in every way from income to crime to health. Everyone else in this country is going to have a bachelor's degree, good luck trying to land a job(of the few that you're not completely unqualified for due to a lack of a degree) when everyone else applying has had more education than you.

A high school education isn't enough, it's the equivalent of coming out with the knowledge to tie your shoes. We're seeing the same thing we saw at the start of the 20th century; society is advancing and you need more knowledge to properly operate in it. First 8th grade was enough, then 12th grade, now the bar is a 4 year degree.

Well at least I will know how to tie my shoes in the poorhouse.

You have to admit there will be exceptions right?

Most of the jobs I see will choose someone with 10 years work experience in that field over 10 years education, book smarts and world smarts are two different things.

With all due respect, I totally agree on the 10 years worth of experience part. But if someone has 10 years of experience and someone has 6 years of experience and a degree that's a different story. You can't rely on one thing or another to secure your job or to keep your job in today's market, even if you are a trade skill oriented person. (Who by the way, usually keep employment in house or hire relatives and close friends then outsiders)

If a company hires someone who has no degree but loads of experience, it has always been in my circles, the employer sends that person to go get a degree down the road so that they can promote them. You do reach glass ceilings in today's world, like them or not.

 

[everman]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH

My strong advice... don't go into debt for undergrad (or accrue as little debt as possible)... it is not worth it.

It could be hard to get into a top grad school if you went to a no-name for undergrad though.

I'd be interested in seeing some hard statistics on the economic value of that name. Generally it helps at the point of time closest to graduation, for the first and maybe up to third job, but then experience and track record is more important. That said, if you want to get into a particular field like investment banking or politics, then some schools are worth it.

But we're talking about research here, and I think the quality of the student's research and academic record is more important than the name brand on the transcript.

 

[Special K]

I read a recent issue of Newsweek that claimed as many as 75% of recent college graduates end up moving back home with their parents anyway after graduation because they are so far in debt and cannot find a job that pays enough to cover everything. It also said that something like 25% of those are still living there after 4 years.

If the parents don't pay for college, should they feel obligated to let their children come back home for awhile until they can make enough to really survive on their own?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Certainly parents don't have to pay for college, but baring financial circumstances where they can't they really should. A kid without a college degree is practically a waste in modern society, and college no longer comes cheap; somehow or another it's in the best interests of everyone if the kid goes to college. That said it makes more sense for the parents to pay when possible because they have the better financial resources to do so, making a student pay is going to be more expensive in the long run when said kid is trying to afford a a place to live(which in an of itself is spiraling out of control) and heavy student loans at the same time. At the very least, as parents in a traditional nuclear family(i.e. the kids take care of you) it's in your own interests to see that they're as successful as possible.

Wow... a waste huh, you must be one of those people. No "college educated" person would say such a stupid statement without some research. Which would clearly prove you wrong.

No, I stand by my statement. The statistics for someone with just a HS diploma are worse in every way from income to crime to health. Everyone else in this country is going to have a bachelor's degree, good luck trying to land a job(of the few that you're not completely unqualified for due to a lack of a degree) when everyone else applying has had more education than you.

A high school education isn't enough, it's the equivalent of coming out with the knowledge to tie your shoes. We're seeing the same thing we saw at the start of the 20th century; society is advancing and you need more knowledge to properly operate in it. First 8th grade was enough, then 12th grade, now the bar is a 4 year degree.

Well at least I will know how to tie my shoes in the poorhouse.

You have to admit there will be exceptions right?

Most of the jobs I see will choose someone with 10 years work experience in that field over 10 years education, book smarts and world smarts are two different things.

Of course there will be exceptions, I'm not going to deny that. But exceptions are going to be few and far between; for every guy that comes up with the killer new business right out of high school there are many more who are going to extremely limited in their employment options. Counting on exceptions is like playing the lottery with the next 80 years of your life.

As for experience vs. education, you're right that at 10 years that education doesn't matter as much. However where is someone going to get 10 years of experience when they don't have a degree to get hired for their first job? What it amounts to is that you need a degree to get experience, so you're going to have a very hard time in life if you're 18 years old and don't have anything other than your HS diploma.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Special K
I read a recent issue of Newsweek that claimed as many as 75% of recent college graduates end up moving back home with their parents anyway after graduation because they are so far in debt and cannot find a job that pays enough to cover everything. It also said that something like 25% of those are still living there after 4 years.

If the parents don't pay for college, should they feel obligated to let their children come back home for awhile until they can make enough to really survive on their own?

If the parents didn't pay for college, I doubt they really want their kids back for a year. With that said, the financial benefits of such an arrangement are enormous(insert argument about pareto optimality here), it lets a student quickly get rid of those loans and start saving up for a real house.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Special K
I read a recent issue of Newsweek that claimed as many as 75% of recent college graduates end up moving back home with their parents anyway after graduation because they are so far in debt and cannot find a job that pays enough to cover everything. It also said that something like 25% of those are still living there after 4 years.

If the parents don't pay for college, should they feel obligated to let their children come back home for awhile until they can make enough to really survive on their own?

If the parents didn't pay for college, I doubt they really want their kids back for a year. With that said, the financial benefits of such an arrangement are enormous(insert argument about pareto optimality here), it lets a student quickly get rid of those loans and start saving up for a real house.

Good point, I wish I could have that sort of arrangement. I moved to a different city because all of the best jobs in my field were located far out of driving distance from my hometown.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Special K
I read a recent issue of Newsweek that claimed as many as 75% of recent college graduates end up moving back home with their parents anyway after graduation because they are so far in debt and cannot find a job that pays enough to cover everything. It also said that something like 25% of those are still living there after 4 years.

If the parents don't pay for college, should they feel obligated to let their children come back home for awhile until they can make enough to really survive on their own?

If the parents didn't pay for college, I doubt they really want their kids back for a year. With that said, the financial benefits of such an arrangement are enormous(insert argument about pareto optimality here), it lets a student quickly get rid of those loans and start saving up for a real house.

Good point, I wish I could have that sort of arrangement. I moved to a different city because all of the best jobs in my field were located far out of driving distance from my hometown.

Especially now-a-days that college costs are so high (42k+$ per year) for private, 20k+$ per year public out of state, (I dunno what in-state public costs), if you don't save up for college as a kid and go to work during high school, and work during college, its gonna be tough to make ends meet if you pick a less paying degree.

I worked my butt off during junior high and high school saved about 20k$ for college and thought I was gold (in terms of prepared for college). I see the first tuition bill and my whole savings account was wiped away in the 10 seconds it took to write the check. Signing the check was painful, I had never parted with so much money that I had worked so hard for, for such an extended period of time, in one shot. Boy was that a huge realization on my part! Luckily, my parents were nice enough to match my "investment" and I was good-to-go financially for that year. After that, Co-op paid the bills...

Problem for most people that I know is they never thought of working hard during grade school to save up for college -- which I thought was unusual because my parents always reminded me since I was a kid to save up for college.

Who knows, maybe banks will come up with some superduper loan for college education kind of like a Mortgage. For all intents and purposes, college education has the cost of a home anyways. God knows, in a few years, this is what students will need to get with costs rising as they are!

 

[Golgatha]

My idea is to let them (I have two boys) take out loans during college and then hit them with a surprise chunk of change when they get their undergrad completed to reward them for a job well done.

Any graduate studies can be paid for by them though.

For what it's worth, I worked my way through my undergrad and graduate studies and paid for all of my school expenses. My dad did continue to give me $200/month to help me out during my undergraduate studies, and it did ease the burdens of "real life" quite a bit during that period of my life. Other than that $200/month for 4years, I paid for everything myself and am no worse for wear.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
My idea is to let them (I have two boys) take out loans during college and then hit them with a surprise chunk of change when they get their undergrad completed to reward them for a job well done.

Any graduate studies can be paid for by them though.

For what it's worth, I worked my way through my undergrad and graduate studies and paid for all of my school expenses. My dad did continue to give me $200/month to help me out during my undergraduate studies, and it did ease the burdens of "real life" quite a bit during that period of my life. Other than that $200/month for 4years, I paid for everything myself and am no worse for wear.

That is actually a very good idea. If they can get subsidized loans, you get four extra years of interest on your college fund savings.

 

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by: Special K
I read a recent issue of Newsweek that claimed as many as 75% of recent college graduates end up moving back home with their parents anyway after graduation because they are so far in debt and cannot find a job that pays enough to cover everything. It also said that something like 25% of those are still living there after 4 years.

If the parents don't pay for college, should they feel obligated to let their children come back home for awhile until they can make enough to really survive on their own?

There is no obligation, but I would let them as long as they were working and paying off their loans.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: gotsmack
College should be paid for by the person going, but it is appreciated if the parents can help out.

It kinda sucks that I had to work to pay off part of my own education (most of it was paid by my grandfather), all of my books and spending money, but my sisters' are fully paid for (we all went/go to state school).

When I have kids, I'm going to give them enough money to go to State + books and room & board. If they want to go elsewhere they have to pay the difference out of their own pockets (unless it is a top 25 school). I think that is fair.

Its kinda funny how my mom keeps telling me that I have to give her money even though she didn't pay for my education. I set up an allotment of 10% of net a month to shut her up, but she demands 20% of my net salary. I'd be an idiot if I agreed to that.

WTF! Forget that! She's an adult and you should treat her like one.