Colin Powell died of covid complications

[Sunburn74]

For those that won't read the article: "The statement said that he had been fully vaccinated against Covid."

There are several known populations of people who don't generate antibody responses. Largely people with compromised immune systems. There's data on most organ transplant recipients that <50 of them respond to the vaccines and with a 3rd shot you can get that number up to about 75% which is why the CDC first approved them for a 3rd booster. Not surprising an 84 year old man being treated for cancer gets COVID and dies despite vaccination just like it wouldn't be surprising if an 84 year old man in a moderate car accident dies despite wearing his seatbelt.

 

[Zorba]

What's the point of making that statement other than to bait and troll?

You need to lighten up. I figured it'd come up by people that didn't bother to read the article. I was personally curious when I read the article and posted it here. As others said, there is much more going on here than "the vaccine didn't work."

Feel free to find a single post of mine that is antivax. Considering you and I argued about my extreme pro vaccination views for 50 posts I'd think you'd know better.

 

[NWRMidnight]

If your other conditions are relatively well managed, it's not sensationalism to blame covid/covid complications as the cause of death.

I can't quote the person you responded to, as he edited and completely changes his response, so I am responding to yours.

For those who think that a person didn't die from COVID because they had other health issues, think about this:

If a person has heart disease or some other serious health issue, and gets hit by a car and dies.. was it the heart disease/other health issue that killed them, or the car accident? Yes, a person would have had a better chance of survival if they did not have those health issues, but in the end, the car accident killed them, not the heart disease or other health issue. It's the same thing here with COVID, yes they had these health issues, and yes, they may have had a better chance surviving COVID, but it was COVID that caused their death, not the health issues. As they would have lived longer if they did not get COVID, just as the person above that was hit by the car would have lived longer if the car didn't kill them.

 

[HomerJS]

I knew it...
Anti-Vaxxers Are Already Trying to Weaponize Powell’s Death (yahoo.com)

 

[NWRMidnight]

You need to lighten up. I figured it'd come up by people that didn't bother to read the article. I was personally curious when I read the article and posted it here. As others said, there is much more going on here than "the vaccine didn't work."

Feel free to find a single post of mine that is antivax. Considering you and I argued about my extreme pro vaccination views for 50 posts I'd think you'd know better.

So you thought you would assume people wouldn't read it and just throw it out there?
You where the 3rd response in the topic and that includes the OP, and nobody mentioned his vaccination status.. you did, with no other commentary. You just assumed someone would bring it up, so you would just start the argument right off the get go and turn the thread into a vaccination argument huh? Sounds like trolling to me.. and you are trying to bait me into an argument with your response.. Not going to happen, nice try.

 

[manly]

Sad news. I didn't like how he got used by Cheney and Rumsfeld, but I always respected Powell and considered him a worthy leader.

No way for an old lion to go out, should have been Cheney. RIP sir, and thank you for your service.

IronWing put it well; Powell could have resigned in protest. Instead, he went to the U.N. with highly dodgy "evidence" and presented it as fact. Powell's excuse is that he was following the chain of command. But he was no longer a war general, but Secretary of State.

 

[eelw]

If a person has heart disease or some other serious health issue, and gets hit by a car and dies.. was it the heart disease/other health issue that killed them, or the car accident? Yes, a person would have had a better chance of survival if they did not have those health issues, but in the end, the car accident killed them, not the heart disease or other health issue. It's the same thing here with COVID, yes they had these health issues, and yes, they may have had a better chance surviving COVID, but it was COVID that caused their death, not the health issues. As they would have lived longer if they did not get COVID, just as the person above that was hit by the car would have lived longer if the car didn't kill them.

I rather go direct to the point. If a covid patient is being rushed to the ER but gets into an accident on route, would the covid doesn't kill group rather still list that as a covid death or accidental?

 

[Zorba]

So you thought you would assume people wouldn't read it and just throw it out there?
You where the 3rd response in the topic, and nobody mentioned his vaccination status.. you did, with no other commentary. You just assumed someone would bring it up, so you would just start the argument right off the get go huh? Sounds like trolling to me.. and you are trying to bait me into an argument with your response.. nice try.

The original article said nothing about his cancer or any other issue. I thought it was a relevant point to the topic. When I first saw the headline I was surprised he wasn't vaccinated, after reading the article I was surprised he died dispite of it. It was later that people said he had cancer and the article was massively updated. Apparently the author of the article and his family wanted people to know he had been vaccinated and that is why it was in the original short article.

The only one trying to start anything in this thread is you. So do us all and favor and move on.

 

[NWRMidnight]

I rather go direct to the point. If a covid patient is being rushed to the ER but gets into an accident on route, would the covid doesn't kill group rather still list that as a covid death or accidental?

Now that is a twist I never thought about.. good question..

 

[MrSquished]

Colin Powell became a better person in his later years. This tends to happen when you become less and less of a Republican.

But his sins were massive. I will never forget Colin Powell at the United Nations with his powerpoint slide presentation of all this fabricated bullshit evidence of WMD in Iraq to get us to war there. It was so embarrassing and obviously trumped up.

 

[Vic]

RIP.

Death certs frequently name multiple causes of death. Here, COVID is the primary cause of death, as that's what actually killed him, but cancer was the underlying cause, as that's what made him immunocompromised and susceptible to COVID despite being vaccinated.

 

[Ajay]

If there was ever a true life Greek tragic hero it was Colin Powell. From honored general to disgraced political hack, Colin Powell had a choice and he chose to sign onto Team Evil.

and that same team evil threatened to release medical info about his wife, causing him to abort any considerations for a Presidential run.

Exactly. He knew what he was doing - the likelihood of him being 'duped' by those bozos is vanishingly small. He probably wouldn't capitulate when they first approached him, hence the payback later on. He is the one who sat down with Bush Sr. and went over the gunship video footage. They were ripping apart Iraqi soldiers by the dozen as the tried to run away. That led to the call to end military operations earlier than expected.

So RIP for his service to this country while in uniform.

 

[NWRMidnight]

The original article said nothing about his cancer or any other issue. I thought it was a relevant point to the topic. When I first saw the headline I was surprised he wasn't vaccinated, after reading the article I was surprised he died dispite of it. It was later that people said he had cancer and the article was massively updated. Apparently the author of the article and his family wanted people to know he had been vaccinated and that is why it was in the original short article.

The only one trying to start anything in this thread is you. So do us all and favor and move on.

Oh? Then why just a one liner and no other commentary with your first response other than "For those that won't read the article" when you brought it up in the 3rd post in this thread when there really wasn't any discussion going on yet? Why did you think it was important to make sure those that didn't read the article knew that without some explanation? Why do you think it's your responsibility to point out a single fact to people who have chosen not to read the article? If they wanted to know the specifics, they would read the article, don't you think? Why did you wait until I called you out, to defend yourself with your "reasoning" after the fact? Shouldn't that have been included in the original post to give some context if your intentions where honorable? All it looks like is you threw it up to derail the thread into a vaccination argument right from the start, and you are just making up excuses trying to cover your ass. Maybe next time, if your intentions where indeed honorable, don't just post a one liner that implies something completely different, and include some context. Otherwise, you will be considered a troll. If your intention was not to troll, and I took your post incorrectly, my apologies.

As for no mention of Cancer, it really is not relevant, he didn't die from cancer, he died from COVID. But they did update the article to include that, which is common as new information is released and comes available.

 

[Zorba]

Oh? Then why just a one liner and no other commentary with your first response other than "For those that won't read the article" when you brought it up in the 3rd post in this thread when there really wasn't any discussion going on yet? Why did you think it was important to make sure those that didn't read the article knew that without some explanation? Why do you think it's your responsibility to point out a single fact to people who have chosen not to read the article? If they wanted to know the specifics, they would read the article, don't you think? Why did you wait until I called you out, to defend yourself with your "reasoning" after the fact? Shouldn't that have been included in the original post to give some context if your intentions where honorable? All it looks like is you threw it up to derail the thread into a vaccination argument right from the start, and you are just making up excuses trying to cover your ass. Maybe next time, if your intentions where indeed honorable, don't just post a one liner that implies something completely different, and include some context. Otherwise, you will be considered a troll. If your intention was not to troll, and I took your post incorrectly, my apologies.

As for no mention of Cancer, it really is not relevant, he didn't die from cancer, he died from COVID. But they did update the article to include that, which is common as new information is released and comes available.

WTF are you even trying to accuse me of? Being an antivax troll? LMFAO. Go fuck youself and take out your anger on your unvaccinated family, where it belongs.

I made a comment based on the article, as soon as someone posted that he was undergoing cancer treatment and likely why the vaccine wasn't effective I agreed with them.

This is even more ridiculous since just a month ago we went back and forth for pages because I said vaccination status should be considered when triaging and you lost your shit that I thought antivaxers should be responsible for their decisions. But now I'm an antivaxer because I shared a direct quote that said Colin Powell was vaccinated without providing further analysis.

You are the person derailing this thread wuth your bullshit attacks. Again find a single antivaccine comment I've ever made on here or STFU. If you look very hard, you'll find posts where I was pro HPV vaccine mandates a decade and a half ago. You'll also find out my family was in the novavax trial and my daughter was signed up for moderna kiddie trial.

 

[Stokely]

I lost all respect for that man during the Iraq criminality. He and all the rest of that merry band should have been rotting in jail if not executed. "Oops, we invaded the wrong damn country and killed over a million people, caused upheaval that still is going on, and helped bring about Isis, our bad!"

As far as covid, he was vaccinated but also very sick outside of covid and certainly elderly. Vaccines aren't 100% effective.

 

[JEDIYoda]

If your other conditions are relatively well managed, it's not sensationalism to blame covid/covid complications as the cause of death.

BS........the man was 84.........now if he was 44 then i would say you are correct!
But at 84.....and with the problems he had........noway!

 

[Brainonska511]

BS........the man was 84.........now if he was 44 then i would say you are correct!
But at 84.....and with the problems he had........noway!

Yes, he was 84 and had other underlying issues. Could they have led to his demise next week? Maybe. However, he had covid and died before that possibility could come to pass, so I see no reason not to label this as a covid-related death.

 

[pmv]

What's the point of making that statement other than to bait and troll?

I took it as emphasizing this is not a case of a foolish anti-vaxxer suffering from the effects of their foolish decision, but rather just that the guy was old, already not in great health, and unlucky. Without reading the article someone might have assumed Powell was a vaccine refusenik, which would be a little unfair to the guy (I already am not sure I liked him, from what I once read of his small role in the aftermath of the My Lai massacre....though to be fair, I can no longer remember exactly what it was that made me feel negative about him).

The fact that the vaccine doesn't guarantee survival, especially if you are already vulnerable in some way, is why I worry about my elderly family members, now that this country has abandoned all lock-down measures and in particular re-opened schools (where COVID is, predictably, spreading like wildfire - secondary-school-age children are now the most commonly infected age group...I know at least two entire families who all got COVID after the children bought it home from school).

 

[brycejones]

BS........the man was 84.........now if he was 44 then i would say you are correct!
But at 84.....and with the problems he had........noway!

Would he have died now without COVID? Pretty clear the answer is probably not. So it’s the complications of having COVID that killed him.

 

[maluckey1]

Would he have died now without COVID? Pretty clear the answer is probably not. So it’s the complications of having COVID that killed him.

Kinda wrong on that one. The odds of Powell expiring at any second was high. Immunocompromised people are on borrowed time at best. Most do not survive very long.

Saying COVID killed someone with compromised immune system and multiple cancers is dishonest at best. It verges on sensationalism at worst. He died of cancer, that cancelled his ability to mount any meaningful immune response. Any other diagnosis is ignoring the facts. His Military death cert will read "cancer", not COVID. The Army doesn't play politics or sensationalize. A buddy of mine died of "massive blood loss" according to the surgeon in Iraq. The real cause was the vehicle that landed on top of him. Had that not happened, he would be fine.

 

[brycejones]

Kinda wrong on that one. The odds of Powell expiring at any second was high. Immunocompromised people are on borrowed time at best. Most do not survive very long.

Saying COVID killed someone with compromised immune system and multiple cancers is dishonest at best. It verges on sensationalism at worst. He died of cancer, that cancelled his ability to mount any meaningful immune response. Any other diagnosis is ignoring the facts. His Military death cert will read "cancer", not COVID. The Army doesn't play politics or sensationalize. A buddy of mine died of "massive blood loss" according to the surgeon in Iraq. The real cause was the vehicle that landed on top of him. Had that not happened, he would be fine.

Your post is dishonest. But we have come to expect that from you.

 

[Meghan54]

Powell's cancer he suffered from was multiple myeloma, a cancer of the blood that targets a particular type of white blood cells (plasma cells). And Powell, according to family, had been recently treated for MM. Cannot think of many worse cancers to have in relation to this pandemic. I'm sure there are a few, but talk about unlucky.

What Is Multiple Myeloma?

Multiple myeloma is a cancer of plasma cells. Learn about the key features of multiple myeloma.

www.cancer.org

Results of a study done in July, 2020 on response to mRNA vaccinations from people with active MM: "Only 45% of active MM patients developed an adequate response, while 22% had a partial response."

Response to mRNA vaccination for COVID-19 among patients with multiple myeloma - Leukemia

Multiple myeloma (MM) patients are at higher risk for severe COVID-19. Their mRNA vaccination response against SARS-CoV-2 is unknown. Thus, we analyzed responses to mRNA vaccination against COVID-19 among these patients. Using an ELISA-based assay that detects IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 spike...

www.nature.com

So it's not surprising Powell probably had rather poor response to the COVID vaccines. And his death will most likely be listed as COVID, not cancer since he'd probably still be with us if had not contracted COVID.

 

[IronWing]

It’s a bit of a toss up whether multiple myeloma or covid is a worse way to go. Covid is quicker I guess but both suck mightily.

 

[hal2kilo]

It’s a bit of a toss up whether multiple myeloma or covid is a worse way to go. Covid is quicker I guess but both suck mightily.

The myeloma alone wrecks your immune system. For him, the COVID vaccine was a lot less effective.

 

[nickqt]

Powell was the cheerleader and pointman of the Iraq genocide, so I'm not really going to mourn his loss. Just because he wasn't as unlawful as Bush or as evil as Trump isn't really a great alightment, but so be it. He did his time. He kinda sorta attempted to atone, which is a lot more than most Republicans do. So there's that.

That said, if the right-wing fascists want to scream in hysterics about how the vaccine doesn't work, resulting in them continuing to peacefully self-disenfranche themselves in order to Make America Great Again, I'm not going to complain.

So, I'm going to rate all of this a toss-up.