Cohabitation Before Marriage = Higher Chance of Divorce

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Like I said in the other thread, cohabition degrades the institution of marraige. The attitude: well we've been living together for so long, may as well get the piece of paper to formalize it. It's just another day for people living together, it's not a big deal to most of them. Many don't see any attitude change with regards to living together vs officially being married. Why do you think that in some states, if you live together long enough, you're considered married? What is there to look forward to, if you're simulating a marraige like environment before actually doing it?

Think about it like this, you have an older friend who is 21. He/she buys you alcohol in high school, and gets you a fake ID, a really good one, so good that it fools everyone. You use it from the years 18-21, and drinking/clubbing isn't a big deal for you. So when you do turn 21, it's really just a formalization process that "cool I'm legal now, but it doesn't really matter". Now think about how long you had waited for the day to turn 21, if you didn't have the fake. How much more exciting and special would it be? It's the same feeling, except with marraige it lasts a lifetime.

Stated very well and true.

After about a year of living together the odds of a long lasting marrige fall off like a torque curve near red line. I've read that, seen it happen to others and lived it.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Yes, because it was proven by studies that are always 100% consistent with real life situations.

The study's findings are based on interviews conducted in 1995 with about 11,000 women ages 15 to 44.

11,000 is a whole ton of people. the findings are statistically significant. i'm not going to look through the full pdf, but i'm going to be of the opinion that correlation isn't causation in this case.

11K is hardly a whole ton of people. It's not even close enough to gather more than a snapshot of the demographics of a particular region of an area.
I hate how they do these stuides, and then tout the information as fact.

I've heard of MANY studies that were done. If you do even a little research, you would find that out.

Remember, they aren't saying that EVERY couple that lives together first will end up in divorce, but the odds increase.

Yes, I understand that. But I am talking in context to the original post.

MattCo wrote, I think if more people lived together before getting married, the divorce rate would drop. This statement has been proven incorrect by the CDC.
It's hardly proven incorrect. This is what I'm talking about when people tout marginal findings as fact.

How about everyone read the damn study and then comment instead of just reading two headlines and jumping right into the fray? Is that too much to ask?

Gee, I did read it. Is not jumping to conclusions when someone doesn't believe the same thing as you too much to ask?

Really? You read all 100+ pages in less than 10 minutes. Impressive.

No I didn't read 100+ pages and I'm willing to bet you didn't either. Nor will you read all 100+ pages. So instead of attacking the person, attack the argument.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed that no one is bothering to consider any of the factors surrounding the cohabitation/marriage/divorce thing. The rates vary hugely by ethnicity, age, employment status, income level, religion, etc and all anyone wants to say is "See? Cohabitation is bad!"

 

[Geekbabe]

How many of those folks living together finally got married because they decided they wanted children? Kids are known to be an additional stressor even when they are wanted.I think the most stressful years of a marriage are when you have babies,preschool aged children.

 

Think about it like this, you have an older friend who is 21. He/she buys you alcohol in high school, and gets you a fake ID, a really good one, so good that it fools everyone. You use it from the years 18-21, and drinking/clubbing isn't a big deal for you. So when you do turn 21, it's really just a formalization process that "cool I'm legal now, but it doesn't really matter". Now think about how long you had waited for the day to turn 21, if you didn't have the fake. How much more exciting and special would it be? It's the same feeling, except with marraige it lasts a lifetime.

I guess that's an ok analogy. So, what is the difference between living together for years unmarried and then getting married and not living together for years and getting married.

In the end you still live together. Though, when you live together for years, you have a better understanding of how you will cohabitate with that person. I think it has more to do with the label of marriage than the cohabitation prior to marriage.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed that no one is bothering to consider any of the factors surrounding the cohabitation/marriage/divorce thing. The rates vary hugely by ethnicity, age, employment status, income level, religion, etc and all anyone wants to say is "See? Cohabitation is bad!"

I think you missed my point. I do not agree with the article. I think that such a limited data set comes to misleading conclusions. So, I do not agree that cohabitation is bad.
In fact, I think that the stigma surrouding MARRIAGE is the bad thing here.

Amazing how you can live together for years and years without any problems. As soon as you toss on that marriage label, it falls apart.
Coincidence? I don't think so. And the CDC is going to need a lot more than 11K people to convince me otherwise.

 

[MustISO]

The only way I would have gotten married is if I first lived with the person. You learn a lot about compatibility when you live with someone 24/7.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: MustISO
The only way I would have gotten married is if I first lived with the person. You learn a lot about compatibility when you live with someone 24/7.

Agreed.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Think about it like this, you have an older friend who is 21. He/she buys you alcohol in high school, and gets you a fake ID, a really good one, so good that it fools everyone. You use it from the years 18-21, and drinking/clubbing isn't a big deal for you. So when you do turn 21, it's really just a formalization process that "cool I'm legal now, but it doesn't really matter". Now think about how long you had waited for the day to turn 21, if you didn't have the fake. How much more exciting and special would it be? It's the same feeling, except with marraige it lasts a lifetime.

I guess that's an ok analogy. So, what is the difference between living together for years unmarried and then getting married and not living together for years and getting married.

In the end you still live together. Though, when you live together for years, you have a better understanding of how you will cohabitate with that person. I think it has more to do with the label of marriage than the cohabitation prior to marriage.

Because if you live together for years and then get married it is "just a piece of paper" and not a true binding commitment to a partnership/team. Folks can offer their opinions that differ, but do ask anyone who is actually educated in relationships, etc and you'll find that cohabitation before marriage is a bad idea.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Because if you live together for years and then get married it is "just a piece of paper" and not a true binding commitment to a partnership/team. Folks can offer their opinions that differ, but do ask anyone who is actually educated in relationships, etc and you'll find that cohabitation before marriage is a bad idea.

Times are a changing.

Women are working more now, they are self-sufficient so they are not looking for a husband like they were 10+ years ago.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
A post by MattCo in Caitlion's (now locked) thread inspired me to post this.

MattCo wrote, I think if more people lived together before getting married, the divorce rate would drop.

This statement has been proven incorrect by the CDC.

CNN Article: Living together may lead to breakups

Full CDC Study (5.5MB PDF)

it's not proven incorrect... it could just be that people who are likely to live together at this point in time are more likely to get divorced as well. you have another population of people who are not likely to live together right now, and you can't assume that living together would have the same effect on those people. for example, it could be that the deciding factor in divorce is religion (just for example). that people who are not religious are more likely to get divorced, and also more likely not to live together. so here you have a factor that causes both phenomenon, but you can't say that one phenonmenon causes the other. again, just an example.

But read up on relationships and the psychology behind them. Living together before marriage does lead to higher divorce.

yes, that is entirely possible... i'm just saying that the claim that this study proves that there is causation between living together before marriage and divorce is false.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: spidey07
Because if you live together for years and then get married it is "just a piece of paper" and not a true binding commitment to a partnership/team. Folks can offer their opinions that differ, but do ask anyone who is actually educated in relationships, etc and you'll find that cohabitation before marriage is a bad idea.

Times are a changing.

Women are working more now, they are self-sufficient so they are not looking for a husband like they were 10+ years ago.

And that is the biggest problem we are facing with marriage. Times may be changing but at our core we have not. Do NOT live with someone before you get married. I am almost 33 years old now and have seen what it does. Just about everyone of my buddies who lived together before they married got divorced. However my other friends who did not are still together at 5, 7, 10+ years.

 

Because if you live together for years and then get married it is "just a piece of paper" and not a true binding commitment to a partnership/team. Folks can offer their opinions that differ, but do ask anyone who is actually educated in relationships, etc and you'll find that cohabitation before marriage is a bad idea.

How about marriage/monogamy as a bad idea?

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

So that leads me to believe marriage is a forced will power thing.

And that is the biggest problem we are facing with marriage. Times may be changing but at our core we have not. Do NOT live with someone before you get married. I am almost 33 years old now and have seen what it does. Just about everyone of my buddies who lived together before they married got divorced. However my other friends who did not are still together at 5, 7, 10+ years.

Then how do you know if you CAN live together? It seems like jumping into unknown water head first. If it doesn't work out, then the only thing holding it together is the stigma of divorce.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Living together can create the attitude that one can easily walk out of a relationship without consequences.
That is what the rules are before marriage.
that attitude can carry over into a marriage.

On the other hand, living together allows you to try to understand the person and their quirks.
but both are trying to please the other so much, that the nasty sides may not become visible (each knows that the other can bail if they become disapointed).

Yeah, if you have commitment problems. I don't need a qualitative piece of paper for me to be committed, and I certainly don't have the attitude that I can easily walk out on a relationship.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: spidey07
And that is the biggest problem we are facing with marriage. Times may be changing but at our core we have not. Do NOT live with someone before you get married. I am almost 33 years old now and have seen what it does. Just about everyone of my buddies who lived together before they married got divorced. However my other friends who did not are still together at 5, 7, 10+ years.

I made my decision as did my girlfriend. I know several people who have done the same thing and they are still going strong. Perhaps my decision will come back to bite me in the ass in years to come, but I doubt it.

 

[spidey07]

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

Something about making it legal is a BIG difference. A huge difference. A monumental difference. I just feel sorry for you that you don't understand that. The vows mean a lot and lay the foundation for the future. When marriage is relegated to a "piece of paper" then the couple simple doesn't get it nor do the "get" what marriage is.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: spidey07
And that is the biggest problem we are facing with marriage. Times may be changing but at our core we have not. Do NOT live with someone before you get married. I am almost 33 years old now and have seen what it does. Just about everyone of my buddies who lived together before they married got divorced. However my other friends who did not are still together at 5, 7, 10+ years.

I made my decision as did my girlfriend. I know several people who have done the same thing and they are still going strong. Perhaps my decision will come back to bite me in the ass in years to come, but I doubt it.

It will. You're still young. Its ok though because after your divorce you'll learn a lot and figure it all out.l

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It will. You're still young. Its ok though because after your divorce you'll learn a lot and figure it all out.l

What does me being young have to do with it? I was brought up by young parents with a sense of family. I may not be as experienced as you are, but not everyone is going to have their wife take a cruise and come back with a new pair of balls.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: spidey07

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

Something about making it legal is a BIG difference. A huge difference. A monumental difference. I just feel sorry for you that you don't understand that. The vows mean a lot and lay the foundation for the future. When marriage is relegated to a "piece of paper" then the couple simple doesn't get it nor do the "get" what marriage is.

In all due respect, your recent events in your own life are probably skewing your opinion a bit.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Think about it like this, you have an older friend who is 21. He/she buys you alcohol in high school, and gets you a fake ID, a really good one, so good that it fools everyone. You use it from the years 18-21, and drinking/clubbing isn't a big deal for you. So when you do turn 21, it's really just a formalization process that "cool I'm legal now, but it doesn't really matter". Now think about how long you had waited for the day to turn 21, if you didn't have the fake. How much more exciting and special would it be? It's the same feeling, except with marraige it lasts a lifetime.

By your logic, we should abolish Driver's Education, too. Young people should save themselves until their16th birthday, then be given full driving priviledges without any of that sinful, dirty training to cheapen the experience.

 

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: spidey07

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

Something about making it legal is a BIG difference. A huge difference. A monumental difference. I just feel sorry for you that you don't understand that. The vows mean a lot and lay the foundation for the future. When marriage is relegated to a "piece of paper" then the couple simple doesn't get it nor do the "get" what marriage is.

In all due respect, your recent events in your own life are probably skewing your opinion a bit.

Just a bit?

 

[SinnerWolf]

The report is too dated to be of relevance to most people on this board
"the analysis of trends in this report is based on data from 1973, 1976, 1988, and 1995."
I'm sure there is a general correlation between living together before marriage and divorce rates but there are way too many factors not even considered by this report for it to be of significance.
i.e. children, work schedules, attending school, college/high school education, vehicle/transportation, suburban/rural, disease, sexual activity, previous divorces/cohabitations, etc...

How many people do you know with just ONE failed cohabitation/marriage? Everyone I know who fails at it does so almost annually. And that alone is enough to throw off any data trends they are trying to capture.

 

[SinnerWolf]

Originally posted by: phantom309

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Think about it like this, you have an older friend who is 21. He/she buys you alcohol in high school, and gets you a fake ID, a really good one, so good that it fools everyone. You use it from the years 18-21, and drinking/clubbing isn't a big deal for you. So when you do turn 21, it's really just a formalization process that "cool I'm legal now, but it doesn't really matter". Now think about how long you had waited for the day to turn 21, if you didn't have the fake. How much more exciting and special would it be? It's the same feeling, except with marraige it lasts a lifetime.

By your logic, we should abolish Driver's Education, too. Young people should save themselves until their16th birthday, then be given full driving priviledges without any of that sinful, dirty training to cheapen the experience.

For that matter, why bother experiencing anything when you can be a Pleasure Delayer and make it all the much sweeter.

Besides Speedy, you're assuming that everyone is excited about marriage and considers it a goal when every male i know is basically coerced, dragged, blackmailed, sex-deprived, or religiously pressured into getting married. (and yes this does show my age bias)

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: spidey07

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

Something about making it legal is a BIG difference. A huge difference. A monumental difference. I just feel sorry for you that you don't understand that. The vows mean a lot and lay the foundation for the future. When marriage is relegated to a "piece of paper" then the couple simple doesn't get it nor do the "get" what marriage is.

In all due respect, your recent events in your own life are probably skewing your opinion a bit.

Just a bit?

Very true. And I'm sure it is to some extent. That extent being that I have been doing a lot of soul-searching and reading on relationships and people and have been talking with a psychologist/therapy. I'm finally starting to "get it"

So cheers! :beer:

Sorry if I came off harshly. I have lived with many woman. And even married one of them.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: spidey07

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

Something about making it legal is a BIG difference. A huge difference. A monumental difference. I just feel sorry for you that you don't understand that. The vows mean a lot and lay the foundation for the future. When marriage is relegated to a "piece of paper" then the couple simple doesn't get it nor do the "get" what marriage is.

In all due respect, your recent events in your own life are probably skewing your opinion a bit.

I don't think so.

Making the union legal in the eyes of the law is a big step. To separate ways involves the courts and divorce lawyers, alimony, child support, court-mandated family counseling, visitation, etc.

 

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: spidey07

If you have been living together for years, then marriage IS just a piece of paper. You have already made the true binding commitment to a partnership/team. And have been living in that partnership for sometime. Adding a church/court appointed label doesn't make a drop of difference.

Something about making it legal is a BIG difference. A huge difference. A monumental difference. I just feel sorry for you that you don't understand that. The vows mean a lot and lay the foundation for the future. When marriage is relegated to a "piece of paper" then the couple simple doesn't get it nor do the "get" what marriage is.

In all due respect, your recent events in your own life are probably skewing your opinion a bit.

Just a bit?

Very true. And I'm sure it is to some extent. That extent being that I have been doing a lot of soul-searching and reading on relationships and people and have been talking with a psychologist/therapy. I'm finally starting to "get it"

So cheers! :beer:

Sorry if I came off harshly. I have lived with many woman. And even married one of them.

HAha, no harshness detected. You'er just getting closer to being an old man.

 

[Haps]

Spidey I don't see how you can make the correlation between living together and the sanctimen tof marriage not being valued. I lived with my wife before we got married. Yes our day to day lives didn't change much after we got married. But our marriage was not just a piece of paper that you seem to think it is for all people. I believe in marriage and I meant every word of my vows and most certainly intend to keep them for the rest of my life. MY attitude towards marriage and what it means and the responsibilities it has would not be changed in any way by a living situation.