Codey Makes It Illegal To Smoke In Bars...

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: SampSon
I went to one of my favorite bars here in Buffalo that allows you to smoke inside.
They rule.

that's cool - they have an up to code smoking room. the more smoke inside those the merrier. :beer:

No, there is no smoking room, you can just smoke anywhere. Everyone loves it.

awesome. good for them. drugs in the back too? hookers upstairs?

fun times 😀

Naw, just a normal bar. I'm sure the drugs are everywhere anyway.
Smokers and non-smokers alike still frequent the bar. Best part is they arn't a bunch of whiners. The people who do whine don't frequent that bar, which makes it better for everyone.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: epsilon
Attn. Smokers.


You have a drug addiction. A drug addiction that gives other people cancer. You have no rights. If you want to work on those tumors do it in a place where it doesn't effect me. That is all.

As has already been pointed out, from where do you derive the right to tell property owners what they can, and cannot do on their property?

You don't like it? Fine, don't go into a business that allows it. I no longer smoke and won't go into a business that reeks of smoke... but I would never dream of telling a business owner he can't smoke, or allow others to smoke on his PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Finally, the idea that occasional, light exposure to tobacco smoke causes cancer is absurd. Even the cherry picked minority of studies that claimed to show harm that were used by the EPA to create their fraudulent report only showed a nearly negligible increase in disease among those exposed to heavy amounts of smoke in enclosed areas on a daily basis all day long. NONE have showed any increase among people exposed on an inconsistent basis to light whiffs of smoke.

The mindless panic over ETS is simply sad... and not led by any true fear of disease, but by a simple dislike for the smell.

helps cause and worsen asthma, helps transfer pneumonia diseases, causes second-hand smoke health differences (whether you like admitting it or not), and makes others smell bad. what gives them the right to impose their habit on others? might as well be a republican...

it's easier just to NOT do it in public areas, unless they can figure out a way to keep smoke contained in your own bubble and not bother others.

A private business is NOT a "public" area. It is private property and you are there by invitation and the good graces of the property owner.

Oh, and there is NO evidence that ETS, or even PTS causes asthma. In fact, as the rate of smoking and exposure to ETS has plummeted to all time lows and is still falling, the rate of asthma and asthma related deaths are at an all time high and rising. There is an inverse correlation between the rate of asthma and ETS/PTS... this alone blows any theory that tobacco smoke is the cause of asthma out of the water. Sure, it may give people attacks who have pre-existing asthma... but then, so can perfume.

Asthma is an auto-immune disorder that can be aggravated by environmental conditions... not a disease caused by environmental conditions. And just with any allergy or autoimmune disorder, it is up to the individual to avoid those things that cause them discomfort. It is not up to the world to conform to their needs.

and Amused attempts to blow smoke in all of ATOT's face.

dude, cigarette smoke is a carcinogen. i don't want to breath in that sh!t.
how would it be right for me to go into a bar just the same and spew carbon minoxide all over? not enough to kill people, but to make them feel ill. it wouldn't be right. you get the idea.

You are exposed to carcinogens all day long. In your foods, in the air, in your car, in your home.

People hear "carcinogens" and jump to ignorant knee-jerk reactions. The fact of the matter is, the dose makes the poison. You stand more of a chance getting cancer from sitting behind a semi truck in traffic every rush hour than you do from occasionally getting a whiff of smoke in a non-smoking section, or going to a bar every weekend.

Finally, again, if you don't like smoke, don't go somewhere that allows it. It's that simple.

BTW, I don't smoke and do not like the smell.

we are exposed to carcinogens all day long? i'd like to avoid the ones that i can like other people's cigarette smoke.

i would like to see statistics on cancer rates due to sitting behind a semi truck in rush hour traffic in a car with the windows rolled up, which living in the country i never do, as compared to breathing in unfiltered smoke from cigarettes.

it's not just a "whiff" of smoke you get in a bar Amused. come on, get real. it's a constant thing. there are a lot of chain smokers out there, and not just one person per bar is puffing away.

i love how you try to justify it by saying, "if you don't like smoke, don't go somewhere that allows it." NO. i have the right to go to a public place, and yes it 's open to the public, and not have to breath in smoke.

you aren't a smoker, but i have friends who are. funny, they've accepted the fact that they have to go outside to light up pretty easily.

You can avoid people's tobacco smoke by not going places that allow it. It's really that simple.

You do NOT have a right to enter a PRIVATE business. You enter that business at the invitation and good graces of the property owner... who reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason other than race, religion and sex. Private business are NOT "public" places. They are PRIVATE property. A court house, city street or city park is a public place. A PRIVATELY owned business is not. Do you think you have freedom of speech in a private business? Of course not, just as you do not have freedom of speech here on these forums. Why? Because the property owner gets to limit, or allow your actions at their whim. Why? Because they OWN the PRIVATE property and can boot you if they don't like you, or what you say.

Tell me, if you throw a block party and open your house and yard up to the public, does the government then get to tell you you cannot allow smoking on your property?

It's the same thing. Yea for the loss of private property rights in the US. As I said before, no one cares so long as it's not their bull getting gored. You selfishly support the law because it benefits you... NOT because you understand it's widespread implications of the slippery slope it is a major part of... that slope being the loss of private property rights.

Finally, this has nothing to do with smokers themselves, but the businesses who are PRIAVTE property owners. I own a business, and I do not allow smoking in my stores. But that was MY choice... as it should be as a property owner.

 

[SampSon]

Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

:thumbsup:

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: epsilon
Attn. Smokers.


You have a drug addiction. A drug addiction that gives other people cancer. You have no rights. If you want to work on those tumors do it in a place where it doesn't effect me. That is all.

As has already been pointed out, from where do you derive the right to tell property owners what they can, and cannot do on their property?

You don't like it? Fine, don't go into a business that allows it. I no longer smoke and won't go into a business that reeks of smoke... but I would never dream of telling a business owner he can't smoke, or allow others to smoke on his PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Finally, the idea that occasional, light exposure to tobacco smoke causes cancer is absurd. Even the cherry picked minority of studies that claimed to show harm that were used by the EPA to create their fraudulent report only showed a nearly negligible increase in disease among those exposed to heavy amounts of smoke in enclosed areas on a daily basis all day long. NONE have showed any increase among people exposed on an inconsistent basis to light whiffs of smoke.

The mindless panic over ETS is simply sad... and not led by any true fear of disease, but by a simple dislike for the smell.

helps cause and worsen asthma, helps transfer pneumonia diseases, causes second-hand smoke health differences (whether you like admitting it or not), and makes others smell bad. what gives them the right to impose their habit on others? might as well be a republican...

it's easier just to NOT do it in public areas, unless they can figure out a way to keep smoke contained in your own bubble and not bother others.

A private business is NOT a "public" area. It is private property and you are there by invitation and the good graces of the property owner.

Oh, and there is NO evidence that ETS, or even PTS causes asthma. In fact, as the rate of smoking and exposure to ETS has plummeted to all time lows and is still falling, the rate of asthma and asthma related deaths are at an all time high and rising. There is an inverse correlation between the rate of asthma and ETS/PTS... this alone blows any theory that tobacco smoke is the cause of asthma out of the water. Sure, it may give people attacks who have pre-existing asthma... but then, so can perfume.

Asthma is an auto-immune disorder that can be aggravated by environmental conditions... not a disease caused by environmental conditions. And just with any allergy or autoimmune disorder, it is up to the individual to avoid those things that cause them discomfort. It is not up to the world to conform to their needs.

and Amused attempts to blow smoke in all of ATOT's face.

dude, cigarette smoke is a carcinogen. i don't want to breath in that sh!t.
how would it be right for me to go into a bar just the same and spew carbon minoxide all over? not enough to kill people, but to make them feel ill. it wouldn't be right. you get the idea.

You are exposed to carcinogens all day long. In your foods, in the air, in your car, in your home.

People hear "carcinogens" and jump to ignorant knee-jerk reactions. The fact of the matter is, the dose makes the poison. You stand more of a chance getting cancer from sitting behind a semi truck in traffic every rush hour than you do from occasionally getting a whiff of smoke in a non-smoking section, or going to a bar every weekend.

Finally, again, if you don't like smoke, don't go somewhere that allows it. It's that simple.

BTW, I don't smoke and do not like the smell.

we are exposed to carcinogens all day long? i'd like to avoid the ones that i can like other people's cigarette smoke.

i would like to see statistics on cancer rates due to sitting behind a semi truck in rush hour traffic in a car with the windows rolled up, which living in the country i never do, as compared to breathing in unfiltered smoke from cigarettes.

it's not just a "whiff" of smoke you get in a bar Amused. come on, get real. it's a constant thing. there are a lot of chain smokers out there, and not just one person per bar is puffing away.

i love how you try to justify it by saying, "if you don't like smoke, don't go somewhere that allows it." NO. i have the right to go to a public place, and yes it 's open to the public, and not have to breath in smoke.

you aren't a smoker, but i have friends who are. funny, they've accepted the fact that they have to go outside to light up pretty easily.

You can avoid people's tobacco smoke by not going places that allow it. It's really that simple.

You do NOT have a right to enter a PRIVATE business. You enter that business at the invitation and good graces of the property owner... who reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason other than race, religion and sex. Private business are NOT "public" places. They are PRIVATE property. A court house, city street or city park is a public place. A PRIVATELY owned business is not.

Tell me, if you throw a block party and open your house and yard up to the public, does the government then get to tell you you cannot allow smoking on your property?

It's the same thing. Yea for the loss of private property rights in the US. As I said before, no one cares so long as it's not their bull getting gored. You selfishly support the law because it benefits you... NOT because you understand it's widespread implications of the slippery slope it is a major part of... that slope being the loss of private property rights.

like i've said, i have a right to go to those places and have them be smoke free. remember i have a some carbon minoxide i'd like to blow into public establishments too, but.... i would be arrested wouldn't i? why? because people have the right to be there without toxic chemicals being spewed into the air.

and no, the government has no right to tell me not to smoke on my own property when i am having a party with friends, and this will never happen. so your argument there is flawed. save the "slippery slope" analogy and the impending armageddon for some other issue.

we have had this smoking ban in NY since 2003 and there has been no adverse affect on businesses as was decried. so what is your issue with it now? smokers are still going out to bars.

i take offense to you calling me selfish in my opinion of this smoking ban in bars and restaurants. one could say the selfishness has been stopped thanks to this law.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: SampSon
I went to one of my favorite bars here in Buffalo that allows you to smoke inside.
They rule.

that's cool - they have an up to code smoking room. the more smoke inside those the merrier. :beer:

No, there is no smoking room, you can just smoke anywhere. Everyone loves it.

awesome. good for them. drugs in the back too? hookers upstairs?

fun times 😀

Naw, just a normal bar. I'm sure the drugs are everywhere anyway.
Smokers and non-smokers alike still frequent the bar. Best part is they arn't a bunch of whiners. The people who do whine don't frequent that bar, which makes it better for everyone.

eh, they are breaking the law so i figured the hookers/drugs were just part of the whole package.

yeh, i'll be the clientele is top notch there :thumbsup:

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: epsilon
Attn. Smokers.


You have a drug addiction. A drug addiction that gives other people cancer. You have no rights. If you want to work on those tumors do it in a place where it doesn't effect me. That is all.

As has already been pointed out, from where do you derive the right to tell property owners what they can, and cannot do on their property?

You don't like it? Fine, don't go into a business that allows it. I no longer smoke and won't go into a business that reeks of smoke... but I would never dream of telling a business owner he can't smoke, or allow others to smoke on his PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Finally, the idea that occasional, light exposure to tobacco smoke causes cancer is absurd. Even the cherry picked minority of studies that claimed to show harm that were used by the EPA to create their fraudulent report only showed a nearly negligible increase in disease among those exposed to heavy amounts of smoke in enclosed areas on a daily basis all day long. NONE have showed any increase among people exposed on an inconsistent basis to light whiffs of smoke.

The mindless panic over ETS is simply sad... and not led by any true fear of disease, but by a simple dislike for the smell.

helps cause and worsen asthma, helps transfer pneumonia diseases, causes second-hand smoke health differences (whether you like admitting it or not), and makes others smell bad. what gives them the right to impose their habit on others? might as well be a republican...

it's easier just to NOT do it in public areas, unless they can figure out a way to keep smoke contained in your own bubble and not bother others.

A private business is NOT a "public" area. It is private property and you are there by invitation and the good graces of the property owner.

Oh, and there is NO evidence that ETS, or even PTS causes asthma. In fact, as the rate of smoking and exposure to ETS has plummeted to all time lows and is still falling, the rate of asthma and asthma related deaths are at an all time high and rising. There is an inverse correlation between the rate of asthma and ETS/PTS... this alone blows any theory that tobacco smoke is the cause of asthma out of the water. Sure, it may give people attacks who have pre-existing asthma... but then, so can perfume.

Asthma is an auto-immune disorder that can be aggravated by environmental conditions... not a disease caused by environmental conditions. And just with any allergy or autoimmune disorder, it is up to the individual to avoid those things that cause them discomfort. It is not up to the world to conform to their needs.

and Amused attempts to blow smoke in all of ATOT's face.

dude, cigarette smoke is a carcinogen. i don't want to breath in that sh!t.
how would it be right for me to go into a bar just the same and spew carbon minoxide all over? not enough to kill people, but to make them feel ill. it wouldn't be right. you get the idea.

You are exposed to carcinogens all day long. In your foods, in the air, in your car, in your home.

People hear "carcinogens" and jump to ignorant knee-jerk reactions. The fact of the matter is, the dose makes the poison. You stand more of a chance getting cancer from sitting behind a semi truck in traffic every rush hour than you do from occasionally getting a whiff of smoke in a non-smoking section, or going to a bar every weekend.

Finally, again, if you don't like smoke, don't go somewhere that allows it. It's that simple.

BTW, I don't smoke and do not like the smell.

we are exposed to carcinogens all day long? i'd like to avoid the ones that i can like other people's cigarette smoke.

i would like to see statistics on cancer rates due to sitting behind a semi truck in rush hour traffic in a car with the windows rolled up, which living in the country i never do, as compared to breathing in unfiltered smoke from cigarettes.

it's not just a "whiff" of smoke you get in a bar Amused. come on, get real. it's a constant thing. there are a lot of chain smokers out there, and not just one person per bar is puffing away.

i love how you try to justify it by saying, "if you don't like smoke, don't go somewhere that allows it." NO. i have the right to go to a public place, and yes it 's open to the public, and not have to breath in smoke.

you aren't a smoker, but i have friends who are. funny, they've accepted the fact that they have to go outside to light up pretty easily.

You can avoid people's tobacco smoke by not going places that allow it. It's really that simple.

You do NOT have a right to enter a PRIVATE business. You enter that business at the invitation and good graces of the property owner... who reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason other than race, religion and sex. Private business are NOT "public" places. They are PRIVATE property. A court house, city street or city park is a public place. A PRIVATELY owned business is not.

Tell me, if you throw a block party and open your house and yard up to the public, does the government then get to tell you you cannot allow smoking on your property?

It's the same thing. Yea for the loss of private property rights in the US. As I said before, no one cares so long as it's not their bull getting gored. You selfishly support the law because it benefits you... NOT because you understand it's widespread implications of the slippery slope it is a major part of... that slope being the loss of private property rights.

like i've said, i have a right to go to those places and have them be smoke free. remember i have a some carbon minoxide i'd like to blow into public establishments too, but.... i would be arrested wouldn't i? why? because people have the right to be there without toxic chemicals being spewed into the air.

and no, the government has no right to tell me not to smoke on my own property when i am having a party with friends, and this will never happen. so your argument there is flawed. save the "slippery slope" analogy and the impending armageddon for some other issue.

we have had this smoking ban in NY since 2003 and there has been no adverse affect on businesses as was decried. so what is your issue with it now? smokers are still going out to bars.

i take offense to you calling me selfish in my opinion of this smoking ban in bars and restaurants. one could say the selfishness has been stopped thanks to this law.

Show me from where you derive the "right" to enter private property.

You have no such right. Business are PRIVATE property. Not public. You have no "right" to do business with them. You enter their property by their invitation. If they choose to allow smoking, that is THEIR choice. YOUR choice is to not enter their business.

And I have no idea why you fear carbon monoxide so fscking much when you can't even spell it.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

really Sampson, you are sounding like a typical smoker; harsh, inconsiderate, and just concerned with your rights. but hey, we're bad guys for wanting the same rights.

i don't see what the issue is for you. it seems you've found a goldmine of a bar in NY state that lets you smoke it up. kudos - have a good one there, and bitch about how bad non-smokers are, and how big brother is stealing all your rights. ha.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

 

[chuckywang]

Awesome.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

You're the stupid ass that doesn't know the difference between private and public property.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

MY arrogance? I would NEVER think to tell private property owners what they can, and cannot allow to satisfy my own personal, selfish preferences. Instead, I would choose to do business with owners who cater to my preferences... not force them to comply.

It is you, and the myopic folks who believe as you do who are the arrogant ones here.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

You're the stupid ass that doesn't know the difference between private and public property.

i do know the difference. please refrain from calling me a stupid ass.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

You're the stupid ass that doesn't know the difference between private and public property.

i do know the difference. please refrain from calling me a stupid ass.

Actually, as evidenced by your posts, you obviously do not.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

really Sampson, you are sounding like a typical smoker; harsh, inconsiderate, and just concerned with your rights. but hey, we're bad guys for wanting the same rights.

i don't see what the issue is for you. it seems you've found a goldmine of a bar in NY state that lets you smoke it up. kudos - have a good one there, and bitch about how bad non-smokers are, and how big brother is stealing all your rights. ha.

The issue IMHO, isn't about how smokers want to smoke it up every where. Its the fact that the law tresspasses on the rights of the business owner to allow what ever s/he wants on their property. Personally, I don't smoke unless I'm either at home, or at the house of someone else who smokes anyways, but their principle for aruging against such a law is sound.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

You're the stupid ass that doesn't know the difference between private and public property.

i do know the difference. please refrain from calling me a stupid ass.

would dumb ass be better?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

MY arrogance? I would NEVER think to tell private property owners what they can, and cannot allow to satisfy my own personal, selfish preferences. Instead, I would choose to do business with owners who cater to my preferences... not force them to comply.

It is you, and the myopic folks who believe as you do who are the arrogant ones here.

no dear, i am not arrogant for wanting to go to a bar/restaurant and not breathe in second hand smoke. arrogance is those who feel they should be allowed to force that upon me.

really is it so bad that someone simply can't go outside and puff?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

You're the stupid ass that doesn't know the difference between private and public property.

i do know the difference. please refrain from calling me a stupid ass.

would dumb ass be better?

c'mon, that's really getting you no where.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

MY arrogance? I would NEVER think to tell private property owners what they can, and cannot allow to satisfy my own personal, selfish preferences. Instead, I would choose to do business with owners who cater to my preferences... not force them to comply.

It is you, and the myopic folks who believe as you do who are the arrogant ones here.

no dear, i am not arrogant for wanting to go to a bar/restaurant and not breathe in second hand smoke. arrogance is those who feel they should be allowed to force that upon me.

really is it so bad that someone simply can't go outside and puff?

That decision should be, and always has been at the sole discretion of the PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER.

Again, this has nothing to do with smokers. Your beef is with property owners who allow smokers to smoke on their property.

And, yes, you are arrogant for wishing to force property owners to conform to your personal preferences rather than have the courage of your convictions and refuse to do business with owners who allow smoking.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

You're the stupid ass that doesn't know the difference between private and public property.

i do know the difference. please refrain from calling me a stupid ass.

would dumb ass be better?

c'mon, that's really getting you no where.

Well these people trying to teach you the difference between private and public property wasn't going too well either. Some people just won't ever get it.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

MY arrogance? I would NEVER think to tell private property owners what they can, and cannot allow to satisfy my own personal, selfish preferences. Instead, I would choose to do business with owners who cater to my preferences... not force them to comply.

It is you, and the myopic folks who believe as you do who are the arrogant ones here.

no dear, i am not arrogant for wanting to go to a bar/restaurant and not breathe in second hand smoke. arrogance is those who feel they should be allowed to force that upon me.

really is it so bad that someone simply can't go outside and puff?

Its quite simple. If you don't like their business practices, you don't have to go there. Same as if you don't like McD's fries, or whatever.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused: If you've noticed how everything you're talking about has already been covered nearly verbatim in this thread, you'll realize how utterly useless it is to explain what you're saying to them. They don't care about property rights, or personal rights, or anybody's "rights" but their own. It's an exercise in futility and what it boils down to is these people saying "I don't like smoking and I will go to every measure to make sure it's not around me, except actually being proactive and not being in the presence of smokers.".

You can argue this thread to 15 more pages and you're never in a million years going to get them to agree that you're right and they are wrong on the issue of property rights and infringement of personal rights and the importance of personal responsibility. These people would rather whine and have the govt do something for them rather than them actually putting an ounce of effort into "protecting" themselves.

Yeah, I know... but if I can make at least one selfish, spoiled, nanny-state bastard at least THINK...

Oh who the fsck am I kidding. You're right.

really, your arrogance isn't going to help influence anyone.

MY arrogance? I would NEVER think to tell private property owners what they can, and cannot allow to satisfy my own personal, selfish preferences. Instead, I would choose to do business with owners who cater to my preferences... not force them to comply.

It is you, and the myopic folks who believe as you do who are the arrogant ones here.

no dear, i am not arrogant for wanting to go to a bar/restaurant and not breathe in second hand smoke. arrogance is those who feel they should be allowed to force that upon me.

really is it so bad that someone simply can't go outside and puff?

That decision should be, and always has been at the sole discretion of the PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER.

Again, this has nothing to do with smokers. Your beef is with property owners who allow smokers to smoke on their property.

And, yes, you are arrogant for wishing to force property owners to conform to your personal preferences.

how many times do you want to repeat yourself and make me repeat myself? :roll:

second hand smoke kills. seat belts save lives. some people are too stupid to realize this on their own, and so unfortunately the government has to step in to save these people from themselves and ourselves.

call that arrogant all you want. i'm not buying your rant.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

second hand smoke kills.

name one person who has died from second hand smoke.