CNN: Nuclear program components unearthed in Iraq

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
it's been buried for 12 years.................................................what's that tell ya
more hype
can we even believe this? they are getting desperate

PS: the CIA found it.....................................

Do you really think they would plant something? The odds of being caught make that a gamble few politicians would take.

 

[DukeFan21]

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

 

[MonstaThrilla]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
Can we verify it was buried 12 years ago, or is that just another story from our trusted friends of the Baath party?

According to the news story, it was the scientist who came forward who said he buried it in his backyard under some rose bushes 12 years ago. He was ordered by Qusay to do this. The scientist has fled from Iraq with the help of the US government.

In my opinion, this story goes to show that the UN inspections were working at deterring the Saddam regime from trying to restart their nuclear program (this story has nothing to do with chemical or bio weapons).

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla

Originally posted by: mastertech01
Can we verify it was buried 12 years ago, or is that just another story from our trusted friends of the Baath party?

According to the news story, it was the scientist who came forward who said he buried it in his backyard under some rose bushes 12 years ago. He was ordered by Qusay to do this. The scientist has fled from Iraq with the help of the US government.

In my opinion, this story goes to show that the UN inspections were working at deterring the Saddam regime from trying to restart their nuclear program (this story has nothing to do with chemical or bio weapons).

It actually means the inspections were not working. Once the inspectors leave, whatever was buried could be dug up. If the inspections were working, we would have verifiable proof that these were destroyed, not hidden.

 

[mastertech01]

I also remember there was an escaped scientist who claimed he was ordered to bury a large amount of refined uranium that Saddam claimed was sealed inside the destroyed nuclear reactor somewhere out in the desert.

Who the hell can you really believe? We can only continue searching and reporting what we find.

 

[DukeFan21]

Mahdi Obeidi (search) told U.S. agents in Iraq he was ordered in 1991 to hide documents and parts for a centrifuge to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons. Obeidi said he was told the materials should remain buried in his backyard until sanctions against Iraq ended, when they would be dug up and used to reconstitute a program to enrich uranium to make a nuclear weapon

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

We had a containment and inspection program that was working

If Saddam was still in power now, this scientist would have never came forward.

Sorry, I'm missing it. What does one have to do with the other? It was buried for 12 years; sounds like they were contained to me.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

Don't have the quote handy -- was it Bush that made the speech about Iraq and how the next 9/11 could be a "mushroom cloud", or was it one of Bush's minions? I will grant you they are careful liars, leaving a little wiggle room so they can denying saying what they said.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

We had a containment and inspection program that was working

If Saddam was still in power now, this scientist would have never came forward.

Sorry, I'm missing it. What does one have to do with the other? It was buried for 12 years; sounds like they were contained to me.

Only as long as inspections and sanctions remained on Iraq.

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

We had a containment and inspection program that was working

If Saddam was still in power now, this scientist would have never came forward.

Sorry, I'm missing it. What does one have to do with the other? It was buried for 12 years; sounds like they were contained to me.

So in that logic, isnt what you are saying is that a loaded gun with the safety set, Hidden away in your closet, is no threat.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

This little discovery pretty much shoots down that claim as well. The program obviously wasn't active for the past 12 years if key equipment remained buried.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

This little discovery pretty much shoots down that claim as well. The program obviously wasn't active for the past 12 years if key equipment remained buried.

So you are assuming that this is the only thing has been buried?

 

[MonstaThrilla]

Originally posted by: charrison

It actually means the inspections were not working. Once the inspectors leave, whatever was buried could be dug up. If the inspections were working, we would have verifiable proof that these were destroyed, not hidden.

Well I said that the inspections were working at deterring the regime. I didn't say they were working 100%. I agree with you that the inspections were less than perfect, but in my opinion it was a better solution to the problem than launching a unilateral, heavily opposed war. Deterrance and containment has historically been proven to work, and I think they were working with dealing with Iraq.

You say that once the inspectors left, the nuclear program would be reconstituted. I agree with you 100%. But if it were up to the UN inspectors and most of the UN Security Council, the inspectors didn't plan to leave anytime soon, if not ever. Nor did they plan to end the sanctions (which I think were unfairly punishing the Iraqi people, but were still successful in deterring the regime). It was the US who told them to get out before the bombing commenced. If the inspectors were allowed to stay in the country, they could have either a) found those centrifuge parts and other parts (not very likely) or b) after a significant time of searching without finding anything, they could have filed a report to the UN Security Council saying Iraq was most likely hiding these parts and did not give any evidence that they destroyed these parts. Then an accepted, multilateral war could have been launched, or whatever action determined by the Security Council. Either way, those centrifuge parts would have remained buried that entire time.

I know the concern is that the UN inspectors would have just left and the UN would have "appeased" Saddam, but there's no historical proof that this would have happened. Everyone knew Saddam was a dangerous menace, and he wasn't just going to be left off the hook scott-free if the inspections produced nothing. Close inspections and sanctions would have continued indefinitely. In other words, the situation where that scientist would have been ordered to dig up those centrifuge parts would have never happened.

 

[zantac]

misleading title if i ever saw one.

got my hopes up, hell even the media isnt making this a big deal :\

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

This little discovery pretty much shoots down that claim as well. The program obviously wasn't active for the past 12 years if key equipment remained buried.

So you are assuming that this is the only thing has been buried?

No, I am assuming that whatever is buried is not able to be used while it is buried. I'm also assuming that whatever is not buried would likely have been found already.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

This little discovery pretty much shoots down that claim as well. The program obviously wasn't active for the past 12 years if key equipment remained buried.

So you are assuming that this is the only thing has been buried?

No, I am assuming that whatever is buried is not able to be used while it is buried. I'm also assuming that whatever is not buried would likely have been found already.

Dont you think these items should have been declared, rather than buried?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: Mark
And since when did this whole issue of finding WMD's turn from finding the actual weapons themselves to finding evidence of materials used to make nuclear weapons?

The Bush administration never claimed that Saddam had nuclear weapons, but they did say that he had a nuclear weapons program. There are no actual nukes to find, just the tools to build them (pieces of the program)

This little discovery pretty much shoots down that claim as well. The program obviously wasn't active for the past 12 years if key equipment remained buried.

So you are assuming that this is the only thing has been buried?

No, I am assuming that whatever is buried is not able to be used while it is buried. I'm also assuming that whatever is not buried would likely have been found already.

Dont you think these items should have been declared, rather than buried?

Of course. I said earlier in this thread this was evidence of the obvious, that Iraq was not in compliance. But it's not evidence for anything more than that.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: zantac
misleading title if i ever saw one.

got my hopes up, hell even the media isnt making this a big deal :\

Guess you haven't been here long (june 2003 - yep I was right ) - you need to read some of the headlines that have been posted

So Nuclear weapon equipment isn't significant? or just that Nuclear is a WMD? or are you saying we didn't find them?

Granted equipment isn't ACTUAL WMDs but it is used to make WMD but it is still a SIGNIFICANT WMD find.

I swear the reading comprehension and deduction skills of the people on this forum amaze me.

CkG

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Umm. It was buried 12 years ago. Even administration officials aren't making much of this and they would dearly love to. I will find it amusing to watch Bush fanboys try use this to justify a war. Carry on.

 

[sandorski]

Hans and Co were begining to interview scientists shortly before the war, who's to say they couldn't be found through the inspection process? Iraq certainly wasn't months from nuking the US.

 

[DukeFan21]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Hans and Co were begining to interview scientists shortly before the war, who's to say they couldn't be found through the inspection process? Iraq certainly wasn't months from nuking the US.

If the scientists would've said anything significant Hussein would've killed them and most likely their families.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DukeFan21

Originally posted by: sandorski
Hans and Co were begining to interview scientists shortly before the war, who's to say they couldn't be found through the inspection process? Iraq certainly wasn't months from nuking the US.

If the scientists would've said anything significant Hussein would've killed them and most likely their families.

Maybe, maybe not. The terms of inspections, monitoring, and even Scientist interviews was in a constant state of flux. Every other week Iraq was conceding on important issues, it was only, likely, a matter of time before these items were discovered.

 

[zantac]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: zantac
misleading title if i ever saw one.

got my hopes up, hell even the media isnt making this a big deal :\

Guess you haven't been here long (june 2003 - yep I was right ) - you need to read some of the headlines that have been posted

So Nuclear weapon equipment isn't significant? or just that Nuclear is a WMD? or are you saying we didn't find them?

Granted equipment isn't ACTUAL WMDs but it is used to make WMD but it is still a SIGNIFICANT WMD find.

I swear the reading comprehension and deduction skills of the people on this forum amaze me.

CkG

what was there to deduce? the original poster had no link nothing, i check CNN and they said right off the bat that it wasnt a smoking gun and it was a 12 year old site, and that directly contradicts the Title which so boldly states "CNN Breaking News: Significant WMD (Nuclear) find in Iraq" A significant WMD find would infact be WMD. Remeber what WMD stands for? WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION, this find had no WEAPONS.

everybody knows that iraq had WMD in the past, this find does nothing but support what everybody allready knows.

please dont insult my ability to deduce and/or comprehend a title.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Umm. It was buried 12 years ago. Even administration officials aren't making much of this and they would dearly love to. I will find it amusing to watch Bush fanboys try use this to justify a war. Carry on.

If they dig enough they may find the true prize.... gophers! Around here they ARE the WMD.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Michael
Fencer128's post (and a few others echoing the same thing) is exactly what I expected. It doesn't matter what they find. The US could find 100 drums of nerve gas all stacked up and the refrain would be that it wasn't deployed so it didn't count.

The cry was "no evidence of WMD". Now it'll be "it isn't the right evidence".

They lost the fight to stop the war and I predict they'll lose the fight to redefine victory after the war.

Michael

I hope they don't find markings on this treasure that indicate it was mfg. by US or England... back then we were buddies.. Sorta like finding our markings on munitions in '01 conflict.