CNN Has more sympathy for the rapists.

[Theb]

And her consent is irrelevant to whether letting boys finger you is a big deal or not.

You're already a shoo-in for president of the He-Man Woman Haters Club. Now you're just doing a victory lap.

 

[nehalem256]

Engaging in sexual activity WITH CONSENT ON BOTH SIDES is not a big deal. Forcing sexual activity on someone who is unable to consent is something else entirely, and that's what this case is about.

Noses have NOTHING to do with it. Your red herring is not working.

Its not a red herring. If sexual activity with consent is not different than nose touch with consent, why then is sexual activity without consent any different than nose touching without consent?

In short if we have a society where sexual activity is not a big deal (your words) why are you surprised when a bunch of drunk hormonal teenagers treat it that way?

there is a big difference as a matter of law, culture and society. in the end thats all that matters, the society in which you are a part of has determined the rules, follow them or face the consequences of not following them.

But you cannot provide any reason for why it is different than because you (or society) says so.

Is it any surprise the rules that have no reasoning or consistency behind them are so easily broken by drunk hormonal teenagers?

 

[Emos]

Found this from elsewhere, but this really hits home on the victim blaming that a few here insist on engaging in:


Here’s a compendium of “helpful” rape-prevention advice, compiled from what I was told to do growing up, and based on the stories of survivors that I know, or have read about:

Watch your drinks.
Don’t get drunk.
Don’t drink.
Don’t do drugs.
Be careful who you flirt with.
Make a plan for how to get home in a hurry.
Keep your car keys in your hand.
Hold your keys so the edges poke between your fingers.
Don’t go out alone.
Take your dog with you.
Don’t go out after dark.
Don’t walk in deserted areas.
Don’t run the same route every day.
Don’t go out with your hair down.
Don’t go out with your hair tied back.
Be seen talking on your cell phone.
Don’t be seen talking on your cell phone.
Watch what you wear.
Wear shoes that you can easily run in.
Don’t sleep around.
Don’t have sex, because if you consent to one kind of sex, you’ve consented to them all.
Make plans to check in with a friend.
Send information about the person you’re dating to a friend.
Buy a gun.
Carry a knife.
Carry pepper spray.
Learn Tae Kwon Do.
Park under a light.
Check under the car.
Fight back.
Don’t fight back.
Don’t draw attention to yourself.
Don’t let anyone drive you home.
Don’t let anyone inside your house.
Don’t make out with anyone.
Aim for the groin.
Don’t be alone with anyone.
Don’t go to parties.
Don’t go to church.
Don’t go camping.
Don’t go to the park.
Don’t go to bars.
Don’t go to school.
Don’t go to work.
Don’t travel.
Lock your doors.
Lock your windows.
Hide in the closet.
Don’t be disabled.
Don’t be a person of color.
Don’t be homosexual.
Don’t be heterosexual.
Don’t be asexual.
Don’t be in prison.
Don’t be poor.
Don’t be a sex worker.
Don’t be mentally ill.
Don’t be transgendered.
Don’t be old.
Don’t be young.
Don’t be a daughter.
Don’t be a sister.
Don’t be a cousin.
Don’t be a friend.
Don’t be in college.
Don’t be married.
Don’t be dating.
Don’t be pretty.
Don’t be ugly.
Don’t be thin.
Don’t be fat.

Don't get raped. See? Easy as cake!

 

[sixone]

Its not a red herring. If sexual activity with consent is not different than nose touch with consent, why then is sexual activity without consent any different than nose touching without consent?

In short if we have a society where sexual activity is not a big deal (your words) why are you surprised when a bunch of drunk hormonal teenagers treat it that way?

"Not a big deal" was YOUR phrase, not mine. I simply used it to avoid confusing you, since you're having trouble understanding. You sort of skipped over the most important part of my statement, that little word CONSENT.

Nose touching is not SEXUAL. You're trying to make equivalent to activities of completely different natures and intents. Not gonna work.

Those students didn't treat sexual activity as if it were no big deal. That's why there were texts and videos and lies about it. They KNEW it was a big deal.

Their mistake was treating her inability to CONSENT as though it were not a big deal.

 

[nehalem256]

Found this from elsewhere, but this really hits home on the victim blaming that a few here insist on engaging in:


Here’s a compendium of “helpful” rape-prevention advice, compiled from what I was told to do growing up, and based on the stories of survivors that I know, or have read about:

Watch your drinks.
Don’t get drunk.
Don’t drink.
Don’t do drugs.
Be careful who you flirt with.
Make a plan for how to get home in a hurry.
Keep your car keys in your hand.
Hold your keys so the edges poke between your fingers.
Don’t go out alone.
Take your dog with you.
Don’t go out after dark.
Don’t walk in deserted areas. NOTE: There are certainly some areas I wouldn't walk in after dark
Don’t run the same route every day.
Don’t go out with your hair down.
Don’t go out with your hair tied back.
Be seen talking on your cell phone.
Don’t be seen talking on your cell phone.
Watch what you wear.
Wear shoes that you can easily run in.
Don’t sleep around.
Don’t have sex, because if you consent to one kind of sex, you’ve consented to them all.
Make plans to check in with a friend.
Send information about the person you’re dating to a friend.
Buy a gun.
Carry a knife.
Carry pepper spray.
Learn Tae Kwon Do.
Park under a light.
Check under the car.
Fight back.
Don’t fight back.
Don’t draw attention to yourself.
Don’t let anyone drive you home.
Don’t let anyone inside your house.
Don’t make out with anyone.
Aim for the groin.
Don’t be alone with anyone.
Don’t go to parties. NOTE: There are certainly some kinds of parties you should avoid
Don’t go to church.
Don’t go camping.
Don’t go to the park.
Don’t go to bars.
Don’t go to school.
Don’t go to work.
Don’t travel.
Lock your doors.
Lock your windows.
Hide in the closet.

There is actually some good advice there. Or maybe you can just hand your rapist some feminist literature telling him not to not rape you?

Don’t be disabled.
Don’t be a person of color.
Don’t be homosexual.
Don’t be heterosexual.
Don’t be asexual.
Don’t be in prison.
Don’t be poor.
Don’t be a sex worker.
Don’t be mentally ill.
Don’t be transgendered.
Don’t be old.
Don’t be young.
Don’t be a daughter.
Don’t be a sister.
Don’t be a cousin.
Don’t be a friend.
Don’t be in college.
Don’t be married.
Don’t be dating.
Don’t be pretty.
Don’t be ugly.
Don’t be thin.
Don’t be fat.

Don't get raped. See? Easy as cake!

These jumped the shark.

 

[nehalem256]

"Not a big deal" was YOUR phrase, not mine. I simply used it to avoid confusing you, since you're having trouble understanding. You sort of skipped over the most important part of my statement, that little word CONSENT.

Nose touching is not SEXUAL. You're trying to make equivalent to activities of completely different natures and intents. Not gonna work.

Engaging in sexual activity WITH CONSENT ON BOTH SIDES is not a big deal.

What is your point. Sexual activity is not a big deal according to you. You are the one who is saying that sexual activity WITH CONSENT is basically equivalent to nose touching WITH CONSENT. Neither is a big deal.

So why does one suddenly become a big deal without consent. But the other stays not a big deal.

Those students didn't treat sexual activity as if it were no big deal. That's why there were texts and videos and lies about it. They KNEW it was a big deal.

I think that says the opposite. Videotaping yourself doing bad things is plain stupid.

 

[sixone]

What is your point. Sexual activity is not a big deal according to you. You are the one who is saying that sexual activity WITH CONSENT is basically equivalent to nose touching WITH CONSENT. Neither is a big deal.

So why does one suddenly become a big deal without consent. But the other stays not a big deal.

For the same reason that there were no videos or photos or lies about them touching the victim's NOSE. Because no one cares about nose-touching, except you. No one considers it relevant, except you.

I think that says the opposite. Videotaping yourself doing bad things is plain stupid.

Stupid, yes. But they took those videos so that they could repeat their enjoyment later, and show it off to other people, not so that they could be sure they went to jail.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Here's a good read.

http://www.mobilebroadcastnews.com/...sages-led-convictions-Steubenville-Rape-Trial

The following is a transcript of text-messages retrieved from individuals involved in the Steubenville case. This transcript was made using the notes of Don Carpenter and Amanda Blackburn, transcribing while listening to testimony in the courtroom as best they could. This is an excerpt from over 3,000 text messages read in court. Out of respect for the victim in this case, we will not transcribe messages sent between Jane Doe and the others involved in this case.

 

[lotus503]

Its not a red herring. If sexual activity with consent is not different than nose touch with consent, why then is sexual activity without consent any different than nose touching without consent?

In short if we have a society where sexual activity is not a big deal (your words) why are you surprised when a bunch of drunk hormonal teenagers treat it that way?



But you cannot provide any reason for why it is different than because you (or society) says so.

Is it any surprise the rules that have no reasoning or consistency behind them are so easily broken by drunk hormonal teenagers?

actually i did

Likely as the human species attempted monogamy some 18,000 years ago it started to become more unacceptable for non mates to touch a females reproductive parts.

 

[sixone]

Here's a good read.

http://www.mobilebroadcastnews.com/...sages-led-convictions-Steubenville-Rape-Trial

Vile.

 

[CitizenKain]

To me, this is about a group of drunken, slutty, stupid teenagers f***ing each other. It happens all the time, and somewhere in America, is happening right now.

The thing is:
If a drunken slutty girl gets f***ed, and complains about it, she's raped.
If a drunken slutty guy gets f***ed, and complains about it, well then he's just an idiot.

I really have no sympathy for anyone involved here. The guys are idiots, and the girl has probably been drunk and f***ed a thousand times before, but it didn't make it to youtube so no one cared.

A lot of people get murdered every year, yet we still prosecute murders, why is that? If you feel like you are smart enough to respond, give it a go.

 

[nehalem256]

actually i did

Likely as the human species attempted monogamy some 18,000 years ago it started to become more unacceptable for non mates to touch a females reproductive parts.

So One-night-stands and friends-with-benefits must also be considered unacceptable.

:hmm:

Maybe its not so unaccpetable for a non-mate to touch a females reproductive parts after all anymore.

Like I said without puritanical sexual morals that have been rejected over the last 50 years by society why is finger a drunk girl so bad?

 

[sixone]

So One-night-stands and friends-with-benefits must also be considered unacceptable.

:hmm:

Maybe its not so unaccpetable for a non-mate to touch a females reproductive parts after all anymore.

Like I said without puritanical sexual morals that have been rejected over the last 50 years by society why is finger a drunk girl so bad?

He said "more unacceptable", not COMPLETELY unacceptable. You really need to work on this bad habit of ignoring the words you don't feel like dealing with.

It's bad because she didn't CONSENT. Freedom of choice has become MORE acceptable over the last 50 years, puritanical or otherwise.

 

[nehalem256]

He said "more unacceptable", not COMPLETELY unacceptable. You really need to work on this bad habit of ignoring the words you don't feel like dealing with.

And after the sexual revolution it became more acceptable for a non-mate to touch a females reproductive parts.

I am not sure what is hard to understand.

The sexual values that came into play 18,000 have been dying out for the last 50 years. And then people act surprised when drunken teenagers don't live by them.

It's bad because she didn't CONSENT. Freedom of choice has become MORE acceptable over the last 50 years, puritanical or otherwise.

And this has nothing to do with why vaginal fingering is worse than nasal fingering. If CONSENT is all that matters they should both be considered an equal violation.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Ah, a quick google search has uncovered the root cause of the nose vs. vagina debate. nehalem simply suffers from a severe nose fetish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_fetishism

 

[Oyeve]

And after the sexual revolution it became more acceptable for a non-mate to touch a females reproductive parts.

I am not sure what is hard to understand.

The sexual values that came into play 18,000 have been dying out for the last 50 years. And then people act surprised when drunken teenagers don't live by them.



And this has nothing to do with why vaginal fingering is worse than nasal fingering. If CONSENT is all that matters they should both be considered an equal violation.

Do you ever leave your mother's basement?

 

[lotus503]

So One-night-stands (With consent would be mating) and friends-with-benefits (With consent would be mating) must also be considered unacceptable.

:hmm:

Maybe its not so unaccpetable for a non-mate to touch a females reproductive parts after all anymore.

Like I said without puritanical sexual morals that have been rejected over the last 50 years by society why is finger a drunk girl so bad?

I think the part you don't get is a woman determines her mating through consent.

 

[sixone]

And after the sexual revolution it became more acceptable for a non-mate to touch a females reproductive parts.

At the same time it became LESS acceptable for anyone to FORCIBLY touch a female's reproductive parts without CONSENT.

Remember that it used to be that women who were raped outside of marriage were completely rejected by society. Thankfully, that has changed.

I am not sure what is hard to understand.

The sexual values that came into play 18,000 have been dying out for the last 50 years. And then people act surprised when drunken teenagers don't live by them.

Sexual values that don't include consent are NOT "in play" in modern society. It SHOULD be a surprise when drunken teenagers don't live by them.

And this has nothing to do with why vaginal fingering is worse than nasal fingering. If CONSENT is all that matters they should both be considered an equal violation.

The intent behind them is not equal, or comparable. That's why they are treated differently.

 

[airdata]

Thank god Anonymous brought the story to light.

 

[nehalem256]

At the same time it became LESS acceptable for anyone to FORCIBLY touch a female's reproductive parts without CONSENT.

And what we are discussing is whether this is rational. If sexual activity is not a big deal, why does it suddenly become a much bigger deal than other kinds of touching when it is done without consent?

Remember that it used to be that women who were raped outside of marriage were completely rejected by society. Thankfully, that has changed.

And this would be completely consistent with not considering sexual activity to not be a big deal. After you wouldn't reject someone from society because they were nasally fingered would you?

 

[sixone]

And what we are discussing is whether this is rational. If sexual activity is not a big deal, why does it suddenly become a much bigger deal than other kinds of touching when it is done without consent?

Then why stop with the nose? I want to see if there's a brain in there, so don't mind me while I slit your scalp and saw open your brain pan. Is it rational for you to object?

Not by your logic.

And this would be completely consistent with not considering sexual activity to not be a big deal. After you wouldn't reject someone from society because they were nasally fingered would you?

You keep forgetting that I specified that sexual activity WITH CONSENT ON BOTH SIDES is not a big deal. I never stated nor implied that ALL sexual activity, without exception, is not a big deal.

So your comparison doesn't hold up, when you consider what I actually wrote, rather than your fantasy version.

 

[nehalem256]

Then why stop with the nose? I want to see if there's a brain in there, so don't mind me while I slit your scalp and saw open your brain pan. Is it rational for you to object?

Not by your logic.

Cut someone's scalp open causes direct and obvious physical harm

Fingering a girls vagina does not cause any. Just as fingering her nose does not.

See the difference?

You keep forgetting that I specified that sexual activity WITH CONSENT ON BOTH SIDES is not a big deal. I never stated nor implied that ALL sexual activity, without exception, is not a big deal.

So your comparison doesn't hold up, when you consider what I actually wrote, rather than your fantasy version.

I dont know what you have difficulty understanding

vaginal fingering with consent = not a big deal
nasal fingering with consent = not a big deal

vaginal fingering without consent = big deal
nasal fingering without consent = not a big deal

So neither the vaginal fingering, nor fingering people's orifice without consent causes something to be a big deal. It is ony the vaginal fingering without consent that is a big deal.

This seems quite inconsistent.

 

[SheHateMe]

Cut someone's scalp open causes direct and obvious physical harm

Fingering a girls vagina does not cause any. Just as fingering her nose does not.

See the difference?



I dont know what you have difficulty understanding

vaginal fingering with consent = not a big deal
nasal fingering with consent = not a big deal

vaginal fingering without consent = big deal
nasal fingering without consent = not a big deal

So neither the vaginal fingering, nor fingering people's orifice without consent causes something to be a big deal. It is ony the vaginal fingering without consent that is a big deal.

This seems quite inconsistent.

How are you so sure of the hard caused by being sexually assaulted?

 

[sixone]

Cut someone's scalp open causes direct and obvious physical harm

Fingering a girls vagina does not cause any. Just as fingering her nose does not.

See the difference?

I promise to use anesthetic, so you'll never feel a thing. I'll put the scar where your hair will grow back to cover it, so there's no permanent damage.

See the difference?

I dont know what you have difficulty understanding

I don't understand why you think you can continue to misrepresent what I wrote, as if no one will notice.

vaginal fingering with consent = not a big deal
nasal fingering with consent = not a big deal

vaginal fingering without consent = big deal
nasal fingering without consent = not a big deal

So neither the vaginal fingering, nor fingering people's orifice without consent causes something to be a big deal. It is ony the vaginal fingering without consent that is a big deal.

This seems quite inconsistent.

Then explain to me the intent behind both acts, and why YOU think those boys opted to touch her vagina instead of her nose.

 

[skyking]

fingering somebody's nose without consent is assault. It is still a big deal, just a different big deal.