CNN Demonizes Vaping

[WelshBloke]

I am, and it's working great. What makes you think I don't realize I'm substituting addiction?

It's vastly cheaper. I had immediate health benefits. Long term is obviously a bit unknown, but I'll deal with a handful of ingredients that are fairly well know vs. the hundreds of known toxins in cigarettes.

I guarantee thats its going to be massively better for you than smoking. GG keep it up. :thumbsup:

If you ever feel like relapsing I'll post up some pictures of venous leg ulcers caused by smoking that I'm dealing with at work, that should bump up your motivation.

I think we've only cut off 4 legs this week on the ward due to smoking so better than normal, still its only Thursday.

 

[zinfamous]

It's not the nicotine that causes cancer.

no shit, sherlock. Go back and read my comment.

 

[TheVrolok]

Saw a guy at the hospital who has an impressive lung infection that looks fungal in nature (should not happen) and suspicion is that the source is likely his vaping liquid. We don't have any better explanation at this point. Just a bit of a PSA. If you're going to do it, I guess order your liquid from trusted places and store it appropriately (whatever that is?).

 

[Ichinisan]

Nicotine based vaping is a problem,

What if nicotine is no more harmful / addicting than caffeine or sugar?

it is [more harmful than nicotine or sugar].

Is it [really more harmful than nicotine or sugar]?

let me guess. you are one of those that thinks nicotine causes cancer.

How do you figure that? Pretty much the opposite of what I think.

I edited the quote tree for clarity.

Well, practically anything your body has to process can cause cancer in sufficient quantities. While metabolizing things, cells die and need to be replaced. Cell reproduction leads to DNA transcription errors, which can lead to unregulated reproduction (cancer). But that can be practically anything you consume.

I really haven't heard anything to indicate that nicotine causes cancer. Haven't researched it or anything like that. My assumption has always been that nicotine is addictive (like caffeine or sugar) and various toxins in smoke/tar (not necessarily nicotine) are the greatest contributors to lung cancer. I believe eliminating smoke/tar also eliminates the vast majority of the lunch cancer risk. Probably not all of the risk, but most of it.

 

[CZroe]

no shit, sherlock. Go back and read my comment.

Tapatalk glitched. I was responding to this...

What if nicotine is no more harmful / addicting than caffeine or sugar?

it is.

...with this...

It's not the nicotine that causes cancer.

 

[zinfamous]

^right

No one is arguing that nicotine is the cancer-causing agent here; but it would be naive to argue that it doesn't represent a serious cancer threat. It is, first and foremost, nicotine addiction that sends one down the road towards lung/mouth/throat cancer when it comes to tobacco products.

I don't honestly know of anyone that smokes cigarettes because of yummy tar! Many like the tobacco taste, obviously, (which even without the tar, any kind of inhalation of an incendiary product could be a strong cancer agent), but without the physiological need for nicotine, specifically then tobacco-related cancer would probably be far less significant than it is.

 

[BoberFett]

I'd love to ban cigarettes. Disgusting habit with absolutely no benefit to society. Smoking has been banned in public buildings throughout California for 26 years and even beaches and parks. You can't even smoke in bars here. I'm all for this.

When I was in high school there was a smoking area outside where kids could smoke. This is progress baby.

We will see how benign these things are when the studies start coming out in 5-10 years. Until then I am advising my son not to touch these things.

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that you of all people want to control the behavior of others. You're usually so open minded...

"Liberals" are the least liberal people I've ever met.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

So, everyone does realize that there are no studies on the long term effects of vaping .... right? That could mean anything. But it could be cancer causing.

So:
1) Don't use ... don't get cacner from it
2) Use ..... roll the dice on your life.

Oh. I'll add .....
People for some reason think that there is no correlation between guns being legal and people getting killed by guns and guns being not legal and people not getting killed by guns. Ya, I don't see the relationship.

 

[Ns1]

So, everyone does realize that there are no studies on the long term effects of vaping .... right? That could mean anything. But it could be cancer causing.

Everything causes cancer.

 

[Phoenix86]

^right

No one is arguing that nicotine is the cancer-causing agent here; but it would be naive to argue that it doesn't represent a serious cancer threat. It is, first and foremost, nicotine addiction that sends one down the road towards lung/mouth/throat cancer when it comes to tobacco products.

How can you only link nicotine to tobacco given this thread is about vaping?!

Shouldn't that statement be reversed? Tobacco, which contains nicotine, causes cancer, but nicotine itself doesn't represent a serious cancer threat.

It CAN represent a serious threat when consumed via tobacco products.

 

[flexy]

So, everyone does realize that there are no studies on the long term effects of vaping .... right? That could mean anything. But it could be cancer causing.

So:
1) Don't use ... don't get cacner from it
2) Use ..... roll the dice on your life.

When I go outside, breathing air "it could be cancer causing", so could be drinking my water, eating whatever (sweeteners, dyes etc.) or using a cleaner in my kitchen. Correct.

I am not telling someone who never smoked and vaped "Hey you, start vaping, it's good for you".

But when I have the choice between vaping ("roll the dice", even if TO DATE there is no evidence it could cause cancer due to lack of long-term studies) and smoking (where we have CONCLUSIVE evidence about 1000s of cancer causing substances) I do of course choose vaping.

As mentioned elsewhere already, I *think* the majority of vapers used to smoke..or they WOULD (still) smoke if they had not the alternative of vaping.

For the rest, the issue doesn't even come up..they don't smoke AND they don't vape...and I also wouldn't "recommend" to someone to start vaping. NOT because I think it's harmful, but it's really pointless for someone who doesn't smoke and/or never smoked.

 

[Phoenix86]

When I go outside, breathing air "it could be cancer causing", so could be drinking my water, eating whatever (sweeteners, dyes etc.) or using a cleaner in my kitchen. Correct.

I am not telling someone who never smoked and vaped "Hey you, start vaping, it's good for you".

But when I have the choice between vaping ("roll the dice", even if TO DATE there is no evidence it could cause cancer due to lack of long-term studies) and smoking (where we have CONCLUSIVE evidence about 1000s of cancer causing substances) I do of course choose vaping.

As mentioned elsewhere already, I *think* the majority of vapers used to smoke..or they WOULD (still) smoke if they had not the alternative of vaping.

For the rest, the issue doesn't even come up..they don't smoke AND they don't vape...and I also wouldn't "recommend" to someone to start vaping. NOT because I think it's harmful, but it's really pointless for someone who doesn't smoke and/or never smoked.

Well put. People who vape are former smokers, or, I suspect, people who would smoke if vaping wasn't an option. Will some vape who wouldn't have smoked? Probably, but I doubt that's a significant # and it's countered by the number of smokers who no longer smoke or vape because of vaping.

When you say roll the dice, I'm guessing that's a really inaccurate description, it's not like a 1:6 chance vaping is bad. We know a lot about the ingredients. Most of the claims to find bad things in vaping are using "liquids from china", where even milk is substituted for horrible shit. If they use quality ingredients, and just the ones listed those concerns go out the window. There's also that "study" where they ran the battery at like 10 times the settings and it produce formaldehyde, but again, an unrealistic test from what I read.

That doesn't mean we won't find out something new down the line, which of course I'm concerned about. Needs to be studied more. In the mean time I'll take an unknown chance vs. known horrid effects.

 

[sze5003]

When I go outside, breathing air "it could be cancer causing", so could be drinking my water, eating whatever (sweeteners, dyes etc.) or using a cleaner in my kitchen. Correct.

I am not telling someone who never smoked and vaped "Hey you, start vaping, it's good for you".

But when I have the choice between vaping ("roll the dice", even if TO DATE there is no evidence it could cause cancer due to lack of long-term studies) and smoking (where we have CONCLUSIVE evidence about 1000s of cancer causing substances) I do of course choose vaping.

As mentioned elsewhere already, I *think* the majority of vapers used to smoke..or they WOULD (still) smoke if they had not the alternative of vaping.

For the rest, the issue doesn't even come up..they don't smoke AND they don't vape...and I also wouldn't "recommend" to someone to start vaping. NOT because I think it's harmful, but it's really pointless for someone who doesn't smoke and/or never smoked.

That's always been my take on vaping. I do it because I used to smoke. I've cut down a lot on nicotine and its helped me quite a bit.

If you don't smoke there is no need to try it. I have friends who don't smoke and want to try my mod out but I don't let them. The nicotine in my juice is so low they won't even get anything out of it anyway.

 

[SirStev0]

How do you figure that? Pretty much the opposite of what I think.

I edited the quote tree for clarity.

Well, practically anything your body has to process can cause cancer in sufficient quantities. While metabolizing things, cells die and need to be replaced. Cell reproduction leads to DNA transcription errors, which can lead to unregulated reproduction (cancer). But that can be practically anything you consume.

I really haven't heard anything to indicate that nicotine causes cancer. Haven't researched it or anything like that. My assumption has always been that nicotine is addictive (like caffeine or sugar) and various toxins in smoke/tar (not necessarily nicotine) are the greatest contributors to lung cancer. I believe eliminating smoke/tar also eliminates the vast majority of the lunch cancer risk. Probably not all of the risk, but most of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Adverse_effects

 

[SirStev0]

How can you only link nicotine to tobacco given this thread is about vaping?!

Shouldn't that statement be reversed? Tobacco, which contains nicotine, causes cancer, but nicotine itself doesn't represent a serious cancer threat.

It CAN represent a serious threat when consumed via tobacco products.

Nicotine doesn't cause cancer, however... it is a potent chemical with major physiologic effects and severe adverse cardiovascular consequences.

There are studies coming down the pipeline that are supposed to show that "vapors" are getting far more nicotine then previously thought and this may end up being a major future cardiac and vascular nightmare.
There is also a question about what all is inhaled and whether it may mess with surfactant (the goo that keeps your lungs moisturized and open).

 

[SirStev0]

Also... Stop fucking "vaping" in public... I could give a fuck less if you want to strangle your heart with nicotine..

but your fruity-ass sickeningly synthetic chemical smells you mix together are fucking disgusting.
That's actually what I hate more than anything. Always smells like a bad gas-station air freshener.

 

[Newbian]

Also... Stop fucking "vaping" in public... I could give a fuck less if you want to strangle your heart with nicotine..

but your fruity-ass sickeningly synthetic chemical smells you mix together are fucking disgusting.
That's actually what I hate more than anything. Always smells like a bad gas-station air freshener.

More and more places are banning them and regulations are getting passed to restrict them more so blame the asshats that abuse it.

Won't be surprised if they get as bad as regular cigarettes in a few more years and you know who to blame.

 

[Phoenix86]

Nicotine doesn't cause cancer, however... it is a potent chemical with major physiologic effects and severe adverse cardiovascular consequences.

There are studies coming down the pipeline that are supposed to show that "vapors" are getting far more nicotine then previously thought and this may end up being a major future cardiac and vascular nightmare.
There is also a question about what all is inhaled and whether it may mess with surfactant (the goo that keeps your lungs moisturized and open).

I didn't say it was good for you, I said it's vastly better than the other option, cigarettes. You don't seem to understand the displacement here.

Smokers are trading cigarettes for vaping. Bans on vaping increase cigarette consumption, because, guess what? They want the nicotine and will get it one way or another.

http://www.journalnow.com/news/loca...cle_dc594f51-b940-5dad-a2ba-3f9e53823978.html

You're comparing vaping in a vacuum, which is asinine.

As far as the total nicotine intake, it's pretty easy to measure. Just like alcohol or caffeine, you feel when you're getting too much.

Know what my lungs feel like after switching? 100% better. Because smoking is fucking terrible, and that appears to be my options in life. Smoke or vape. I quit smoking due to vaping. I stopped vaping at one point, only to end up smoking again. I'll take vaping over smoking all day long and twice on Sunday.

 

[DigDog]

just my 2c .. VG is food grade, PG is medical grade. PG would be probably a safer bet in the long run.

 

[Eli]

I find the uproar in this thread fairly hilarious, all things considered.

Yes, of course I think people should be considerate of their vaping habits.

But I'm actually far more worried about the carbureted piece of shit that is running so rich, I can literally smell the exhaust clinging to my clothes several minutes after we've parted ways and I've reached my destination. Or the diesel fueled city bus who's tail pipe is pointed directly at my head each time it billows a cloud of particulate matter.

Where's the public uproar about that? Do you folks who are popping a vein over vaping rage on those people too? Personally, I find a badly tuned car far more offensive than someone walking by smoking a cigarette, let alone vaping... just saying.

 

[DigDog]

it could also be if the vaper in question is using a rebuildable coil running at some ridiculous 50W+, the guys who you see in youtube videos puffing huge clouds of smoke.
my vape barely puts out a whiff, i can vape next to you and you would hardly notice.

 

[OutHouse]

it is a potent chemical with major physiologic effects and severe adverse cardiovascular consequences.

actually according to my yearly physicals with my doctor, my blood pressure has gone down since i stopped smoking and switched to vaping 6 years ago.

 

[Phoenix86]

actually according to my yearly physicals with my doctor, my blood pressure has gone down since i stopped smoking and switched to vaping 6 years ago.

Mine too, change primary physician and he asked if my blood pressure is normally "this good" and I said yes, since I switch to vaping. Took around 6 months for it to level out, but apparently we're ignoring the benefits of switching and only focusing on the "unknown bad" here.

 

[Strk]

Nicotine doesn't cause cancer, however... it is a potent chemical with major physiologic effects and severe adverse cardiovascular consequences.

There are studies coming down the pipeline that are supposed to show that "vapors" are getting far more nicotine then previously thought and this may end up being a major future cardiac and vascular nightmare.
There is also a question about what all is inhaled and whether it may mess with surfactant (the goo that keeps your lungs moisturized and open).

But the guy with the neck tattoo keeps telling me it is super safe!

actually according to my yearly physicals with my doctor, my blood pressure has gone down since i stopped smoking and switched to vaping 6 years ago.

Because hypertension is the only cardiovascular problem out there?

 

[Phoenix86]

Because hypertension is the only cardiovascular problem out there?

So you'd rather have vapors smoke cigarettes instead? Because that's the simple reality of things.

I have tried quitting both, I went back to smoking, so I'm keeping with vaping. I'm going to do one of the two for now. Many people are in the same boat. Go read that Yale study I linked, it's concerning underage use (people who weren't smokers for years and the same holds true).

You're not presenting a solution to that problem by saying vaping isn't safe. You're just supporting limiting access to what's clearly a safer alternative.