Clinton unveils plan to stimulate economy

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This is another fun thread to watch. I like watching all the Ayn Randian self made men froth about taxes that they seem to have little knowledge about. More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

Don't let me stop the circle jerk though, if only our country had more men like you guys in it... you know the real workers that prop the system up... then things would be ok.

Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Well, when you knowingly put a bunch of leeches on your arm to cure what ails you, and find them sucking more blood than you can replace, you are likely going to die.

That would be a good point if it were even remotely true or applicable to illegal immigrants.

Please, show me the flaw in this guys math.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans created this subprime mess, of course their solution is to bash Hillary's plan and do nothing for 15 years, as usual

Both parties are to blame. The country is quickly headed toward bankruptcy. The federal government must go on a strict diet, or it will die.

We need to end Iraq and let Bush tax cuts expire, first and foremost.

I agree, 100%. But that doesn't even begin to solve the financial crisis that is about to hit this country, and hard.

Total household net worth is approx. 55.6 trillion $ (Net worth ? the difference between households' total assets, such as houses and bank accounts, and their total liabilities, such as mortgages and credit card debt, totaled $55.6 trillion in the October-to-December quarter.)

Gdp per capita income is 43,300
Interest on goverment debt(@4.5%) is 3.12% of per capita income.

~~~Wake me up when there is a real financial crisis~~~

David Walker is trying to wake you up now.

So what's your answer? Kill SS and medicare (and the people on them)?

Possibly. Sad? Yes. If we act now, maybe not. If we wait, then that becomes inevitable. But what other answer is there? Accept the death of our country via bankruptcy? Do nothing and hope the problem goes away?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans created this subprime mess, of course their solution is to bash Hillary's plan and do nothing for 15 years, as usual

Both parties are to blame. The country is quickly headed toward bankruptcy. The federal government must go on a strict diet, or it will die.

We need to end Iraq and let Bush tax cuts expire, first and foremost.

I agree, 100%. But that doesn't even begin to solve the financial crisis that is about to hit this country, and hard.

Total household net worth is approx. 55.6 trillion $ (Net worth ? the difference between households' total assets, such as houses and bank accounts, and their total liabilities, such as mortgages and credit card debt, totaled $55.6 trillion in the October-to-December quarter.)

Gdp per capita income is 43,300
Interest on goverment debt(@4.5%) is 3.12% of per capita income.

~~~Wake me up when there is a real financial crisis~~~

David Walker is trying to wake you up now.

A future obigation or promise (especially a government one) is not debt, and does not contribute to the current financial solvency. All those numbers are just scaring you because they are big.

~~~Think BIG, like this. You are at the supper table, along with 300,000,000 other people. You order what you want to eat, and get it in 15 minutes, along with the other 300,000,000 people.

Does it make you happy when you hide from the truth? This isn't a conspiracy theory. This isn't partisan politics.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans created this subprime mess, of course their solution is to bash Hillary's plan and do nothing for 15 years, as usual

Both parties are to blame. The country is quickly headed toward bankruptcy. The federal government must go on a strict diet, or it will die.

We need to end Iraq and let Bush tax cuts expire, first and foremost.

I agree, 100%. But that doesn't even begin to solve the financial crisis that is about to hit this country, and hard.

Total household net worth is approx. 55.6 trillion $ (Net worth ? the difference between households' total assets, such as houses and bank accounts, and their total liabilities, such as mortgages and credit card debt, totaled $55.6 trillion in the October-to-December quarter.)

Gdp per capita income is 43,300
Interest on goverment debt(@4.5%) is 3.12% of per capita income.

~~~Wake me up when there is a real financial crisis~~~

My guess to that is that the total household net worth is EXTREMELY concentrated into the hands of the upper elite. The average Joe gets by with a negative savings rate and a credit card that is getting maxed out.

What exactly is GDP per capita income? There's GDP per capita, and per capita income , and household income, but I havent heard of combining any of those.

I am pretty sure that there was a credit card thread here a while back that does not support your average joe theory. My point was that there is no looming financial solvency crisis in this country, not even close.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This is another fun thread to watch. I like watching all the Ayn Randian self made men froth about taxes that they seem to have little knowledge about. More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

Don't let me stop the circle jerk though, if only our country had more men like you guys in it... you know the real workers that prop the system up... then things would be ok.

Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Well, when you knowingly put a bunch of leeches on your arm to cure what ails you, and find them sucking more blood than you can replace, you are likely going to die.

That would be a good point if it were even remotely true or applicable to illegal immigrants.

Please, show me the flaw in this guys math.

1) his chart appears to show immigrants outweighing domestics by a 3:1 ratio, but the chart starts at 200m and goes to 400m with immigration compared with 250m domestics (only a 1:1 raito)...very misleading.

2) he goes on to say twice as much would have to be spent on infrastructure...so what? does that mean we can cut our infrastructure costs in half by killing half the people? Of course not, you are getting rid of tax payers. Double the infrastructure and double the tax revenues doesn't seem like a crisis to me. Using that logic, the US cannot afford to have 300m people relative to Canada's 30m people; it's a non-sense argument. If you are indeed a believer in free markets, you must agree with economies of scale where services are more efficient/less expensive when you have a larger local user base.

In actual fact asians have the highest houshold income relative to all other races in the US; immigration is not a problem (this is what the man is denouncing). Illegal immigration on the other hand does have some impact, but not near what the media seems to lead on. Most illegals consume less services than people at their similar income level and most pay all other taxes other than income (small portion of total tax revenues).

A growing population will allow the government to help pay for some of the social programs they have in place that they cannot pay for given the current tax rate. Immigraition will be needed as people retire, you can't tell me that the economy will continue to grow or maintain current levels with a leveling off of population and a growing retirement population. So the gumball example isn't about the 3rd world benefits, but the benefits those people bring to the US.

That video sucked...

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This is another fun thread to watch. I like watching all the Ayn Randian self made men froth about taxes that they seem to have little knowledge about. More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

Don't let me stop the circle jerk though, if only our country had more men like you guys in it... you know the real workers that prop the system up... then things would be ok.

Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Well, when you knowingly put a bunch of leeches on your arm to cure what ails you, and find them sucking more blood than you can replace, you are likely going to die.

That would be a good point if it were even remotely true or applicable to illegal immigrants.

Please, show me the flaw in this guys math.

1) his chart appears to show immigrants outweighing domestics by a 3:1 ratio, but the chart starts at 200m and goes to 400m with immigration compared with 250m domestics (only a 1:1 raito)...very misleading.

2) he goes on to say twice as much would have to be spent on infrastructure...so what? does that mean we can cut our infrastructure costs in half by killing half the people? Of course not, you are getting rid of tax payers. Double the infrastructure and double the tax revenues doesn't seem like a crisis to me. Using that logic, the US cannot afford to have 300m people relative to Canada's 30m people; it's a non-sense argument. If you are indeed a believer in free markets, you must agree with economies of scale where services are more efficient/less expensive when you have a larger local user base.

In actual fact asians have the highest houshold income relative to all other races in the US; immigration is not a problem (this is what the man is denouncing). Illegal immigration on the other hand does have some impact, but not near what the media seems to lead on. Most illegals consume less services than people at their similar income level and most pay all other taxes other than income (small portion of total tax revenues).

A growing population will allow the government to help pay for some of the social programs they have in place that they cannot pay for given the current tax rate. Immigraition will be needed as people retire, you can't tell me that the economy will continue to grow or maintain current levels with a leveling off of population and a growing retirement population. So the gumball example isn't about the 3rd world benefits, but the benefits those people bring to the US.

That video sucked...

And just to add, his gumball analogy is utter bullshit. The US does not take 1 million 3rd world people into its borders in order to, "Save the 3rd world." Of course we would never be able to save everyone in the 3rd world (if that were in fact the case) by only allowing 1 million 3rd world peple into the US every year. I argue his point by asking simply: Is US Immigration policy really a tool that we implement in order to save the world? if so, that is the first I have heard of it...

So the con man asks the question; Is immigration an effective tool for "showing our concern for the 3rd world?"

To me that is a straw man. He introduces the idea of the US trying to save the world through immigration policy, as if we are altruistically standing at the gates and the ports at our borders and ushering the broken and down trodden into our country. But since we cannot allow each and every individual in the 3rd world into our country then immigration is a failed tool for saving the world. Well no sh1t sherlock, but who in their right mind has ever considered immigration as a method for showing our concern/saving the 3rd world???

people across the globe have always sought out the US for a "better life." but that is different then the US seeking out 3rd world and impoverished people to save them.

what a con artist. Thanks for linking that video ....it shows where the truely ignorant get "educated."

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans created this subprime mess, of course their solution is to bash Hillary's plan and do nothing for 15 years, as usual

No, they didn't. Bill signed the legislation in the late 90's that forced mortgage investors to open the underwriting floodgates (HOEPA 1995, HOPA 1998, GLB 1999). Once again, I have to tell you to get your facts straight. The mortgage ball started rolling a long time ago.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This is another fun thread to watch. I like watching all the Ayn Randian self made men froth about taxes that they seem to have little knowledge about. More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

Don't let me stop the circle jerk though, if only our country had more men like you guys in it... you know the real workers that prop the system up... then things would be ok.

Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Bullshit. This is about propping about people who knowingly bought a home for more than they could afford. And why did they do that? Greed. Because they thought home prices were going to go up forever.

edit: I'm pro-immigration BTW, but I don't even see where that issue fits into this discussion.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Please, show me the flaw in this guys math.

1) his chart appears to show immigrants outweighing domestics by a 3:1 ratio, but the chart starts at 200m and goes to 400m with immigration compared with 250m domestics (only a 1:1 raito)...very misleading.

2) he goes on to say twice as much would have to be spent on infrastructure...so what? does that mean we can cut our infrastructure costs in half by killing half the people? Of course not, you are getting rid of tax payers. Double the infrastructure and double the tax revenues doesn't seem like a crisis to me. Using that logic, the US cannot afford to have 300m people relative to Canada's 30m people; it's a non-sense argument. If you are indeed a believer in free markets, you must agree with economies of scale where services are more efficient/less expensive when you have a larger local user base.

In actual fact asians have the highest houshold income relative to all other races in the US; immigration is not a problem (this is what the man is denouncing). Illegal immigration on the other hand does have some impact, but not near what the media seems to lead on. Most illegals consume less services than people at their similar income level and most pay all other taxes other than income (small portion of total tax revenues).

A growing population will allow the government to help pay for some of the social programs they have in place that they cannot pay for given the current tax rate. Immigraition will be needed as people retire, you can't tell me that the economy will continue to grow or maintain current levels with a leveling off of population and a growing retirement population. So the gumball example isn't about the 3rd world benefits, but the benefits those people bring to the US.

That video sucked...

And just to add, his gumball analogy is utter bullshit. The US does not take 1 million 3rd world people into its borders in order to, "Save the 3rd world." Of course we would never be able to save everyone in the 3rd world (if that were in fact the case) by only allowing 1 million 3rd world peple into the US every year. I argue his point by asking simply: Is US Immigration policy really a tool that we implement in order to save the world? if so, that is the first I have heard of it...

So the con man asks the question; Is immigration an effective tool for "showing our concern for the 3rd world?"

To me that is a straw man. He introduces the idea of the US trying to save the world through immigration policy, as if we are altruistically standing at the gates and the ports at our borders and ushering the broken and down trodden into our country. But since we cannot allow each and every individual in the 3rd world into our country then immigration is a failed tool for saving the world. Well no sh1t sherlock, but who in their right mind has ever considered immigration as a method for showing our concern/saving the 3rd world???

people across the globe have always sought out the US for a "better life." but that is different then the US seeking out 3rd world and impoverished people to save them.

what a con artist. Thanks for linking that video ....it shows where the truely ignorant get "educated."

Wow, I left and you guys owned him for me. Thanks.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Vic

Bullshit. This is about propping about people who knowingly bought a home for more than they could afford. And why did they do that? Greed. Because they thought home prices were going to go up forever.

edit: I'm pro-immigration BTW, but I don't even see where that issue fits into this discussion.

It doesn't have anything to do with the discussion, I was just making fun of the OP for throwing in some nativist crap into this for no reason.

As for her package, you can debate the merits of it all you want. I really don't care either way. My post was just pointing out that because it has Clinton's name on it there were a load of people on here going berzerk about things they didn't understand... and it was fun to watch them foam.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Irresponsible lenders and borrowers created this subprime mess, of course their solution is to bash Hillary's plan and do nothing for 15 years, as usual

Fixed.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Yeah, so what if they're costing taxpayers tens of billions in welfare, medical care, tuition, etc. No big deal! :roll:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Yeah, so what if they're costing taxpayers tens of billions in welfare, medical care, tuition, etc. No big deal! :roll:

Yeah, something like that.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Subprime and the mortgage industry are the buzzwords of the day, so it is no wonder that Clinton would propose a stimulus packaged aimed at people "saving their homes"...makes no mention of the fact that people stretched into homes beyond their means using exotic financing built on a Ponzi scheme of infinite double digit real estate appreciation.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Oh yeah, and lets get rid of all the illegal immigrants too. I'm not sure how they are part of this problem, but lets get em anyway!

Yeah, so what if they're costing taxpayers tens of billions in welfare, medical care, tuition, etc. No big deal! :roll:

Yeah, something like that.

Just to clarify this is for AZ only.

 

[TheSlamma]

Let me guess.. myself and other working stiffs who have reasonable mortgages that knew what they were getting into will have to pay for the morons who didn't know WTF they were doing getting those ARM's and intrest only's have to pay for all this?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

That's bullsh*t, and you know it! every time the far Left aims for the "upper class," they miss, and hit the middle class square in the fvcking face!

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Yeah, something like that.

49 states to go, bud.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Yeah, something like that.

49 states to go, bud.

Ugh, AZ is one of the states with the highest proportion of illegal immigrants... if anything their impact should be magnified there, no?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: eskimospy
More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

That's bullsh*t, and you know it! every time the far Left aims for the "upper class," they miss, and hit the middle class square in the fvcking face!

Sure they do. Nice unsubstantiated claim there.

Oh, and (unfortunately) Clinton is nowhere close to "far left". She's center right. Maybe if you were being super generous you could call her center left... but that's a big stretch.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Let me guess.. myself and other working stiffs who have reasonable mortgages that knew what they were getting into will have to pay for the morons who didn't know WTF they were doing getting those ARM's and intrest only's have to pay for all this?

Yep; unfortunately as a responsible tax paying citizen you are not classified into one of the numerous "victim groups" that the libs like to create on a whim; however they are more than happy to make you pay for them.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Let me guess.. myself and other working stiffs who have reasonable mortgages that knew what they were getting into will have to pay for the morons who didn't know WTF they were doing getting those ARM's and intrest only's have to pay for all this?

Yep; unfortunately as a responsible tax paying citizen you are not classified into one of the numerous "victim groups" that the libs like to create on a whim; however they are more than happy to make you pay for them.

I don't understand why ARMs are legal. They should never have been allowed as they obviously were created to take advantage of the ignorant buyers. It is scamming I think.

 

[Jiggz]

Here she go again! Like we already forgot her savings plan for the newly born; health care for all; and blah, blah, blah.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: eskimospy
More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

That's bullsh*t, and you know it! every time the far Left aims for the "upper class," they miss, and hit the middle class square in the fvcking face!

This time we won't miss.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: eskimospy
More taxes for the middle class? Her plan calls for middle class tax cuts.

That's bullsh*t, and you know it! every time the far Left aims for the "upper class," they miss, and hit the middle class square in the fvcking face!

This time we won't miss.

but... but... you say that every time!?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans created this subprime mess, of course their solution is to bash Hillary's plan and do nothing for 15 years, as usual

Both parties are to blame. The country is quickly headed toward bankruptcy. The federal government must go on a strict diet, or it will die.

We need to end Iraq and let Bush tax cuts expire, first and foremost.

I agree, 100%. But that doesn't even begin to solve the financial crisis that is about to hit this country, and hard.

Total household net worth is approx. 55.6 trillion $ (Net worth ? the difference between households' total assets, such as houses and bank accounts, and their total liabilities, such as mortgages and credit card debt, totaled $55.6 trillion in the October-to-December quarter.)

Gdp per capita income is 43,300
Interest on goverment debt(@4.5%) is 3.12% of per capita income.

~~~Wake me up when there is a real financial crisis~~~

David Walker is trying to wake you up now.

So what's your answer? Kill SS and medicare (and the people on them)?

Possibly. Sad? Yes. If we act now, maybe not. If we wait, then that becomes inevitable. But what other answer is there? Accept the death of our country via bankruptcy? Do nothing and hope the problem goes away?

Wrong answer, but it certainly highlights why Ron Paul has so little support and less then a snowflakes chance in hell of getting the GOP nod.