Clinton to hand over email server to FBI

[Art&Science]

I find it amusing that so many are jumping through hoops to defend AND to accuse. yet they can't step back and say. yeah..maybe there is a issue with politics. NOpe. anything as long as they win!


could this hurt the US? WHO CARES!? long as we defend her! wooo!


Is there any proof she intended to do anything wrong? Nope. BUT SHE NEEDS TO BE IN JAIL!

Well see that's the problem isn't it. Occasionally Democrats are correct and occasionally Republicans are correct. Of course neither side will admit this but here is the real problem that "impartial third parties" like yourself face (and myself included). You are are so tired and jaded of both sides that when one side is occasionally correct (as in this case) you can't bring yourself to support it. It's a case of the boy who cried wolf. But sometimes, as an impartial third party like yourself, you need to be able to examine the situation and admit that yes, something is wrong and yes I am going to support the right thing even if <insert group whom I can't stand> is driving it and I know it to be right.

 

[Jhhnn]

Look, I've tried to have a nuanced position on this case and fully appreciate that many of the righties here would like to see her publicly executed. Yes, they will take every distorted scrap of evidence to Benghazi this server issue.

As I've said before and been hammered on by the right for it Hillary is not likely to be prosecuted for this server deal and even if it were proven that classified secrets were on her server (it looks like there were) AND that the server had been hacked into (highly unlikely that could ever be proven), I think the whole event may wind up being a blessing in disguise if for no other reason than that it highlights the threat that foreign interests pose to the life's blood of our security -- information.

We need to do a better job at all levels to limit access to data be it national security related or your doctors records. That supposedly secure government system are vulnerable only serves to remind us that determined smart people with big dollar support can get into most things. It should also be clear that if our secure government systems are not as secure as we would like how much of a challenge would it be for those same talented hackers to break into the server run by Slappy the bait shop guy?

Yes, righties will try to Benghazi this story but as evidenced on this very thread the left will cry foul that anyone should question the tactics of Hillary. As I mentioned before the reason she created this server in the first place was to control her message and messages in order to deny that to prying Republicans. What other reason could there be. Her decision to do so has backfired and unlikely a it is, may doom her election chances.


Brian

Of course that's why she created the server, following the lead of her Repub predecessors. And, in that context, so what?

If we're to condemn any of them then we must condemn all of them in equal measure. Righties obviously go to great lengths to make it all about Hillary exclusively.

The whole swipe at whomever administered the Clinton's server is unwarranted. They're wealthy & intelligent people who very likely used a professional administration service. Might have been the Secret Service for all we know. That'd be a hoot.

Benghazi? It's not just a place. It's a whole system of belief. Righties had the Benghazi conspiracy theory spirit long before they had Benghazi. They'll always have it so long as the propaganda organs of the Repub Party can lead the so-called Liberal Media around by their noses.

I kinda like the term "Birther Benghazi Believer". Not all of them are actual believers, of course. Some are basically circus barkers, herding the rubes.

 

[Moonbeam]

If there's one think I know it's that Hillary should be in jail. I know this because I can feel it in my dick, where most of me is. If you'd just be honest you would know it too.

 

[Art&Science]

If there's one think I know it's that Hillary should be in jail. I know this because I can feel it in my dick, where most of me is. If you'd just be honest you would know it too.

So you can feel it all over your body? :whiste:

 

[werepossum]

Quote me on that, OK?

It's remarkable how you can quote absurdity & use that as a segue into personal attack over unrelated issues.

You're getting desperate, and it shows.

Dude, absolutely no one needs any proof of my statement. We see it every day, every thread.

Well see that's the problem isn't it. Occasionally Democrats are correct and occasionally Republicans are correct. Of course neither side will admit this but here is the real problem that "impartial third parties" like yourself face (and myself included). You are are so tired and jaded of both sides that when one side is occasionally correct (as in this case) you can't bring yourself to support it. It's a case of the boy who cried wolf. But sometimes, as an impartial third party like yourself, you need to be able to examine the situation and admit that yes, something is wrong and yes I am going to support the right thing even if <insert group whom I can't stand> is driving it and I know it to be right.

While that is all true, it misses one point. Calling for Hillary to be in jail requires ignoring that Republicans take the exact same liberties with truth, law and propriety. Maybe Hillary is worse - after all, someone has to be at the top of the dung heap - but that's like murderers of adults saying that murderers who kill children are the ones who really need to be arrested. This is why, although Republicans are screaming for Hillary's head, they aren't actually calling for her arrest, just for more investigations to provide political attack material. It's why Democrats allowed a drunken Bob Packwood to grope federal employees for decades and why only when Republicans took over was he removed - because he was an embarrassment to them.

We have seen posted the law and the prescribed penalties. I'm all for prosecuting the Hildabeast, but if we do that we also need to do the same for Pubbies and Dems who leak classified information for political gain. Just because my side cannot be as brazen doesn't mean they aren't doing the same things, they just have to be a bit more circumspect. But when classified information that is embarrassing to one side leaks out, everyone knows the other side did it, and why. There is no clean end to this turd.

 

[Moonbeam]

Dude, absolutely no one needs any proof of my statement. We see it every day, every thread.


While that is all true, it misses one point. Calling for Hillary to be in jail requires ignoring that Republicans take the exact same liberties with truth, law and propriety. Maybe Hillary is worse - after all, someone has to be at the top of the dung heap - but that's like murderers of adults saying that murderers who kill children are the ones who really need to be arrested. This is why, although Republicans are screaming for Hillary's head, they aren't actually calling for her arrest, just for more investigations to provide political attack material. It's why Democrats allowed a drunken Bob Packwood to grope federal employees for decades and why only when Republicans took over was he removed - because he was an embarrassment to them.

We have seen posted the law and the prescribed penalties. I'm all for prosecuting the Hildabeast, but if we do that we also need to do the same for Pubbies and Dems who leak classified information for political gain. Just because my side cannot be as brazen doesn't mean they aren't doing the same things, they just have to be a bit more circumspect. But when classified information that is embarrassing to one side leaks out, everyone knows the other side did it, and why. There is no clean end to this turd.

Do you think that Hillary had a private e-mail server to prevent leaks of her conversations being leaked by Republican sympathizers for political gain? Do you blame the dog that bites that has been beaten or the people who make the dog go mad? Just something to consider for yourself. Despite your atypical capacity to have a better perspective than most of the CBD'ive that post here, I still see in you a victim blaming perspective as an unconscious bias you have.

 

[boomerang]

The number of classified emails that were on her server has now grown to 60.

 

[werepossum]

Do you think that Hillary had a private e-mail server to prevent leaks of her conversations being leaked by Republican sympathizers for political gain? Do you blame the dog that bites that has been beaten or the people who make the dog go mad? Just something to consider for yourself. Despite your atypical capacity to have a better perspective than most of the CBD'ive that post here, I still see in you a victim blaming perspective as an unconscious bias you have.

Of course that is part of it, along with the desire to have the capability to sanitize any emails that cast her in a bad light. Your problem is that you consider Hillary the victim - that she has been beaten up by the mean old brain defective Republicans. Senator Leahy leaked parts of so many classified briefings that on Capital Hill his nickname was Leaky Leahy. This didn't start with Leahy and it damned sure didn't start with Hillary. Both sides of the aisle do it, and have for decades. Both sides of the aisle have things they would like to do that are against the law. Some of them refrain, probably figuring that the political damage of being outed exceeds the political benefit. Some, like Hillary, know their supporters will accept nearly anything so they figure there will be no or little political damage from being outed. Sometimes, like the Hammer, they find out they were fundamentally wrong. Other times they are correct, such as when the New Jersey Democrat Party substituted Lautenberg for the Torch even though the law clearly said they could not do so at that late date. It remains to be seen how this shakes out for Hillary - currently from this board it sure looks more Torch than Hammer - but I have some little hope based on Sanders' performance. But either way, Hillary is NOT the victim. No one forced her to run the State Department from her basement, or ignore subpoenas, or permanently erase files that should have been turned over.

Virtually every single person who gets caught breaking the law will tell that law is unfair and unreasonable for his or her particular circumstances.

The number of classified emails that were on her server has now grown to 60.

Boys, Republicans sure are bent on sliming this good woman to retroactively classify so many innocent messages on this good woman's convenient little home network.

 

[Jhhnn]

Dude, absolutely no one needs any proof of my statement. We see it every day, every thread.


While that is all true, it misses one point. Calling for Hillary to be in jail requires ignoring that Republicans take the exact same liberties with truth, law and propriety. Maybe Hillary is worse - after all, someone has to be at the top of the dung heap - but that's like murderers of adults saying that murderers who kill children are the ones who really need to be arrested. This is why, although Republicans are screaming for Hillary's head, they aren't actually calling for her arrest, just for more investigations to provide political attack material. It's why Democrats allowed a drunken Bob Packwood to grope federal employees for decades and why only when Republicans took over was he removed - because he was an embarrassment to them.

We have seen posted the law and the prescribed penalties. I'm all for prosecuting the Hildabeast, but if we do that we also need to do the same for Pubbies and Dems who leak classified information for political gain. Just because my side cannot be as brazen doesn't mean they aren't doing the same things, they just have to be a bit more circumspect. But when classified information that is embarrassing to one side leaks out, everyone knows the other side did it, and why. There is no clean end to this turd.

The best part? It'll end like every Repub "scandal" since 2008- all hat, no cattle. Meanwhile, irrational headsets will have been established & maintained. Their propaganda isn't about any particular issue but about emotional states & attitudes about mindfuck among the vulnerable.

 

[werepossum]

The best part? It'll end like every Repub "scandal" since 2008- all hat, no cattle. Meanwhile, irrational headsets will have been established & maintained. Their propaganda isn't about any particular issue but about emotional states & attitudes about mindfuck among the vulnerable.

Can you even conceive of anything the Dems could do that would be seriously wrong? (Other than cooperate with Republicans, obviously.)

Can you even conceive of anything the Republicans could do (other than as the Democrats tell them, obviously) that would be essentially morally correct and yet different from what the Democrats do?

 

[Jhhnn]

The number of classified emails that were on her server has now grown to 60.

Classified after the fact, of course...

Where's Condi's non-governmental email? Colin's? Rove's?

Perhaps the most amusing thing about it all is the fact that righties don't know what they're talking about when it comes to classified information because it's classified & they can't see it. It's the perfect boogeyman in a conspiracy theory.

 

[Jhhnn]

Can you even conceive of anything the Dems could do that would be seriously wrong? (Other than cooperate with Republicans, obviously.)

Can you even conceive of anything the Republicans could do (other than as the Democrats tell them, obviously) that would be essentially morally correct and yet different from what the Democrats do?

When I deal in facts, the facts about empty right wing outrage astroturfed from the top down, you duh-vert into hypotheticals.

Can I conceive of such things? Of course. Have Repub ravers found any? Obviously not.

They just scream Wolf! at every opportunity & are somehow believed, over & over again.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Reading comprehension seems to be a dying talent. I've said nothing of the sort. Let me repeat the key part you're either missing or ignoring:

"The government has a set of secure networks, not connected to the Internet, that are the only acceptable homes for classified information (electronic, of course). The State Department email system is on a non-classified network that is connected to the Internet. Classified information is not permitted in insecure email, whether it is the DoS email system or something external."
​

That is the opposite of what I said. What part of, "Realistically, I expect both systems have been repeatedly compromised" is too hard for you?



Projecting, you are!

What you're saying is all very nice but that leaves the question of how classified info was found on her server! How did it get there? The fact that there are internal networks that are not connected to the internet is great, but Hillary's was and it was found to contain classified info.

The issue isn't what kind of networks the government has, it is that Hillary chose of setup a private one, connected to the internet, and that classified info got on it.

This case is about someone setting up a private server, connected to the internet, that should not have had classified info on it but did -- no more no less!


Brian

 

[Brian Stirling]

Nice dodge. Read what you wrote the first time. It wasn't about plans, schedules & intentions at all.

Intellegence takes many forms and plans, schedules and intentions form just one part of that. You would note that the complete sentence you chose to misquote said "That protection of plans, schedules, intentions and the like are for little people but that the leadership need not do so."

Nice dodge indeed!


Brian

 

[Brian Stirling]

Are you actually claiming that they did on the basis of no proof whatsoever?

You fairly define belief in conspiracy theory.

I have made no such claim and if you'd bothered to actually read what I've said you would know that.

You really are trying too hard!


Brian

 

[Brian Stirling]

Of course that's why she created the server, following the lead of her Repub predecessors. And, in that context, so what?

If we're to condemn any of them then we must condemn all of them in equal measure. Righties obviously go to great lengths to make it all about Hillary exclusively.

The whole swipe at whomever administered the Clinton's server is unwarranted. They're wealthy & intelligent people who very likely used a professional administration service. Might have been the Secret Service for all we know. That'd be a hoot.

Benghazi? It's not just a place. It's a whole system of belief. Righties had the Benghazi conspiracy theory spirit long before they had Benghazi. They'll always have it so long as the propaganda organs of the Repub Party can lead the so-called Liberal Media around by their noses.

I kinda like the term "Birther Benghazi Believer". Not all of them are actual believers, of course. Some are basically circus barkers, herding the rubes.

I don't claim to know that whole history of what previous SoS or other member's of the executive branch have done vis a vis private servers. What I can say is the current condition with nation state hacking efforts makes the use of private servers highly unwise and while that may not have been the case a decade ago it is surely the case now.

And again, as I said yesterday, I fully expect further tightening of the rules and predict that before long no government official with access to the kinds of classified info the SoS does will be permitted to even have a private email system.

What I expect to happen is that the government rolls out a secure system that is divided into two areas: one private and the other government so that all messages are stored and encrypted on government controlled and secure systems. Then, if any oversight is needed the government portion will be largely available for oversight activities but the private system would require the same kinds of warrants that would be needed to access gmail etc.

Lastly, if government data, particularly classified data, is ever found on the private side the person would be guilty of a felony.

None of this applies to the Hillary case, but we do need to learn from it. And again, this may be the silver lining in this case. If the government enacts a program as I outline our data will be more secure and we won't need to waste out time talking about it.


Brian

 

[Bowfinger]

What you're saying is all very nice but that leaves the question of how classified info was found on her server! How did it get there? The fact that there are internal networks that are not connected to the internet is great, but Hillary's was and it was found to contain classified info.

Perhaps you should learn something about this story before you start pushing your opinions on others. Even reading the thread would help. In at least the first two examples found, the (allegedly) classified information was in her email because DoS staffers revealed it when discussing a newspaper story about a drone strike. It was NOT a case of someone forwarding a classified document. It was conversation. It was someone with loose lips making an ill-considered comment in an email chain.

That's a problem regardless of what email system Clinton used because classified information is not allowed in emails. I've explained this several times already.

The issue isn't what kind of networks the government has, ...

That is precisely the issue. The government has secure networks for classified material, and an open network for non-classified traffic like email. Someone was careless in an email conversation and mentioned something that is allegedly classified. The potential offense here is the act of putting that comment in email at all.

But again, I'm content to let the FBI perform their investigation. They will need to determine whether the information was actually classified. That's still in question.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you honestly think the determined hackers that have gained access to secure government systems were: unaware of Hillary's server; and were unable to hack into it?

Clueless you are!


Brian

Are you actually claiming that they did on the basis of no proof whatsoever?

You fairly define belief in conspiracy theory.

I have made no such claim and if you'd bothered to actually read what I've said you would know that.

You really are trying too hard!


Brian

When framing a rhetorical question, as you did, you also answer it.

My answer? I have no basis for such a judgment & neither do you, pretend as you might that you possibly could.

Oh, wait... Now you're pretending that you never did offer such judgment in the form of a rhetorical question.

Why are you so eager to jump to such conclusions?

Because Hilllary, obviously.

 

[werepossum]

Perhaps you should learn something about this story before you start pushing your opinions on others. Even reading the thread would help. In at least the first two examples found, the (allegedly) classified information was in her email because DoS staffers revealed it when discussing a newspaper story about a drone strike. It was NOT a case of someone forwarding a classified document. It was conversation. It was someone with loose lips making an ill-considered comment in an email chain.

That's a problem regardless of what email system Clinton used because classified information is not allowed in emails. I've explained this several times already.

That is precisely the issue. The government has secure networks for classified material, and an open network for non-classified traffic like email. Someone was careless in an email conversation and mentioned something that is allegedly classified. The potential offense here is the act of putting that comment in email at all.

But again, I'm content to let the FBI perform their investigation. They will need to determine whether the information was actually classified. That's still in question.

So why aren't you championing Hillary's enlightened leadership in this area? Let's abandon this racist, sexist, cis-gendered, Islamophobic concept of having official government business take place on official government networks and let all Congresscritters, cabinet members, staffers, shit, all federal employees use whatever email servers they wish. When they retire or otherwise leave office, they can go through their emails, decide which ones the people paying them are entitled to see, and destroy the rest. She's the Democrat forerunner so you've already got a third of the nation behind you. Why should she be the only one entitled to "convenience"?

What's good for the Hildabeast should be good for the Congresscritters.

 

[Brian Stirling]

When framing a rhetorical question, as you did, you also answer it.

My answer? I have no basis for such a judgment & neither do you, pretend as you might that you possibly could.

Oh, wait... Now you're pretending that you never did offer such judgment in the form of a rhetorical question.

Why are you so eager to jump to such conclusions?

Because Hilllary, obviously.

You confuse me with those that refer to her as Hildabeast etc. Mind you I do not like her and have no plans to vote for her.

And what conclusions am I so eager to jump to? Would it be fair to say you're jumping to her defense before the facts are fully in.

I've said this repeatedly by I guess one more time is necessary ... No matter what the truth is with respect to the question of classified info on her server it was the very fact that she set it up and that whatever was on it, WHATEVER was on it would be more easily accessed by foreign hackers.

And, I don't need to know whether or not classified info was on her server to know that going forward there can be no one in government that can expect to get away with setting up a private server. And again, I believe that this case will result in new rules and likely new government controlled networks that all government types with access to sensitive info will be required to use for ALL electronic communication.


Brian

 

[ivwshane]

You confuse me with those that refer to her as Hildabeast etc. Mind you I do not like her and have no plans to vote for her.

And what conclusions am I so eager to jump to? Would it be fair to say you're jumping to her defense before the facts are fully in.

I've said this repeatedly by I guess one more time is necessary ... No matter what the truth is with respect to the question of classified info on her server it was the very fact that she set it up and that whatever was on it, WHATEVER was on it would be more easily accessed by foreign hackers.

And, I don't need to know whether or not classified info was on her server to know that going forward there can be no one in government that can expect to get away with setting up a private server. And again, I believe that this case will result in new rules and likely new government controlled networks that all government types with access to sensitive info will be required to use for ALL electronic communication.


Brian

This claim is based on what exactly? For one, using a non government provided email service was allowed during Clinton's term so long as it followed federal guidlines (which is why former secrataries of state also used non government provided email). Do you have info that shows her email servers/service didn't meet those guidlines? If you do then I'd suggest you contact one of the congressmen who is involved in the investigation to let them know because, to date, they have found no such violation.
Second, your claim that whatever she setup would have been more easily accessible via hackers is pure bullshit on your part, I can smell you talking from your ass from here. You've unknowingly just claimed no private entity (person or business) can do IT security better than the government. A quick search of news headlines relating to hacked servers will immediately invalidate that claim,.

To your last paragraph: the rules have already been changed and they were changed after clinton left her post.

 

[ivwshane]

So why aren't you championing Hillary's enlightened leadership in this area? Let's abandon this racist, sexist, cis-gendered, Islamophobic concept of having official government business take place on official government networks and let all Congresscritters, cabinet members, staffers, shit, all federal employees use whatever email servers they wish. When they retire or otherwise leave office, they can go through their emails, decide which ones the people paying them are entitled to see, and destroy the rest. She's the Democrat forerunner so you've already got a third of the nation behind you. Why should she be the only one entitled to "convenience"?

What's good for the Hildabeast should be good for the Congresscritters.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it worked regardless of what email system was being used. My understanding is that now communications to be kept for historical records are now completely automated, removing the human component to what's relevant and what's not.

 

[werepossum]

Yeah, that's pretty much how it worked regardless of what email system was being used. My understanding is that now communications to be kept for historical records are now completely automated, removing the human component to what's relevant and what's not.

Not if the person in question maintains her email on servers outside government control. You know, for convenience.

 

[Bowfinger]

So why aren't you championing Hillary's enlightened leadership in this area? Let's abandon this racist, sexist, cis-gendered, Islamophobic concept of having official government business take place on official government networks and let all Congresscritters, cabinet members, staffers, shit, all federal employees use whatever email servers they wish. When they retire or otherwise leave office, they can go through their emails, decide which ones the people paying them are entitled to see, and destroy the rest. She's the Democrat forerunner so you've already got a third of the nation behind you. Why should she be the only one entitled to "convenience"?

What's good for the Hildabeast should be good for the Congresscritters.

Fluff off, twit. I've said a dozen times that her use of private email for public business was inappropriate:

"Finally, for the record again, I agree it was inappropriate for Clinton to use a personal email account for official business. I simply refuse to board the GOP smear machine where they (yet again) try to pervert a smaller issue into a major scandal. It's dishonest partisan propaganda."
​

You ignore such clear statements, of course, because dishonesty is your stock in trade. You'd be mute if you were restricted to discussing issues and people's positions honestly.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Sixty more emails found from "someone with loose lips making an ill-considered comment in an email chain". It'll probably take until January to review the 30k emails....just in time for the Iowa primary.