Clinton Shifts Hard Right!

[buckshot24]

So you're saying that they're not both religions?

How long do you want to go back and forth like this? I'm able but not willing.

Here is a list of calls to violence by the barbarous Mohammed (do I need to prove he was a barbarian?)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

If there are any open ended general calls to violence anywhere in the bible I've not encountered it. If you know of one please let me know.

 

[buckshot24]

Yaknow, they say that the first person a liar lies to is themselves.

I will repent if it becomes apparent that I am wrong.

 

[Vic]

No he wasn't accurately stating the dictates of Christianity that is the problem. He took a command and applied it to a situation that is no longer in existence.

..

 

[buckshot24]

..

What is the problem?

 

[Vic]

What is the problem?

Well, your hypocrisy, for starters..

 

[buckshot24]

Well, your hypocrisy, for starters..

This sounds like an assertion...

Apparently (and I'm assuming here since you're being pretty cryptic) you think the Quran is being taken out of context to support violence and I'm being hypocritical by taking it out of context and pointing out the bible is being taken out of context.

This would be easier if you just showed how the Koran is being taken out of context to support violence but you want to play games.

Or the bible isn't being taken out of context either.

 

[HomerJS]

This sounds like an assertion...

Apparently (and I'm assuming here since you're being pretty cryptic) you think the Quran is being taken out of context to support violence and I'm being hypocritical by taking it out of context and pointing out the bible is being taken out of context.

This would be easier if you just showed how the Koran is being taken out of context to support violence but you want to play games.

Or the bible isn't being taken out of context either.

I don't see how Leviticus 20:13 is being taken out of context...

'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

 

[buckshot24]

I don't see how Leviticus 20:13 is being taken out of context...

I've already explained that. Are you an Israelite coming out of captivity?

 

[dank69]

Those who see commands to violence in the Koran aren't taking anything out of context though.

Of course they are.

 

[dank69]

How long do you want to go back and forth like this? I'm able but not willing.

Here is a list of calls to violence by the barbarous Mohammed (do I need to prove he was a barbarian?)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

If there are any open ended general calls to violence anywhere in the bible I've not encountered it. If you know of one please let me know.

Here's a link explaining why the quotes in your link are out of context:
http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_2.php

 

[buckshot24]

Here's a link explaining why the quotes in your link are out of context:
http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_2.php

Did you read it?

 

[dank69]

Did you read it?

Some of it. Why?

 

[buckshot24]

The first one is pretty interesting.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]"

The reward for rejecting faith is what? Death.

 

[buckshot24]

Some of it. Why?

Because I don't think you have read it.

You also have to ignore history of the man supposedly writing these things. Mohammed was a barbarian.

 

[dank69]

The first one is pretty interesting.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]"

The reward for rejecting faith is what? Death.

Perfect example of you ignoring context. The very next line says "if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Cease what? Cease attacking Muslims. Muslims are only supposed to kill people that are attacking Muslims.

 

[buckshot24]

Perfect example of you ignoring context. The very next line says "if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Cease what? Cease attacking Muslims. Muslims are only supposed to kill people that are attacking Muslims.

What is the reward for rejecting faith?

 

[dank69]

What is the reward for rejecting faith?

Context. People fighting Muslims in the Sacred Mosque are rejecting the Muslim faith, because they are not respecting it. Dishonest people claim this means "anyone that isn't Muslim."

What is the punishment for a man that has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman? Oh, suddenly you can see the implied context there though.

 

[buckshot24]

Context. People fighting Muslims in the Sacred Mosque are rejecting the Muslim faith, because they are not respecting it. Dishonest people claim this means "anyone that isn't Muslim."

Of course they are rejecting the faith but there are no qualifiers in that statement. People who reject the faith deserve to die.

You also have to ignore the historical context, the Muslims weren't under attack, they were attacking! Anybody who fought back in this offensive war were to be killed.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Funny how all these evil text are in the early verses of the Quran. They are much like the evil texts contained in the Old Testament.

 

[buckshot24]

Funny how all these evil text are in the early verses of the Quran. They are much like the evil texts contained in the Old Testament.

The Koran isn't in chronological.

Was Mohammed a barbarian who spread Islam by the sword, yes or no?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The Koran isn't in chronological.

Was Mohammed a barbarian who spread Islam by the sword, yes or no?

The Quran is based of the Old and New Testament and has words from Mohammad as well. The fact of the matter is you have your mind made up the Christians are the good and Muslims are the bad.

If the Quran really calls for it's believers to kill all non-believers why are the majority of them carrying out these directives? Why are they like Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door then killing anyone that will not convert?

 

[buckshot24]

The Quran is based of the Old and New Testament and has words from Mohammad as well. The fact of the matter is you have your mind made up the Christians are the good and Muslims are the bad.

This is where you are wrong. Christians are not any better than anybody else, we accept our failings and this is why we recognize our need for a savior. This has nothing to do with the Muslim people but the teachings of their prophet.

If the Quran really calls for it's believers to kill all non-believers why are the majority of them carrying out these directives? Why are they like Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door then killing anyone that will not convert?

You need to ask them. You need to ask why so many of them do commit violence in the name of Allah. Thankfully most do not.

 

[buckshot24]

The Koran speaks of the Trinity consisting of Mary, Jesus, and Father btw. The writers were completely ignorant of the OT and NT in many ways.

 

[dank69]

Of course they are rejecting the faith but there are no qualifiers in that statement. People who reject the faith deserve to die.

There are no qualifiers in this either: "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Why does this passage get an implied qualifier but the Quran does not? Oh right, because you're a Christian. Also, you dishonestly inserted the word "the" into that quote to try to imply that it was saying that Islam is the only faith. The actual quote can easily be interpreted as "any faith."

You also have to ignore the historical context, the Muslims weren't under attack, they were attacking! Anybody who fought back in this offensive war were to be killed.

The page I linked says otherwise. Care to put forth some source that says this passage was written during an offensive attack?

 

[buckshot24]

There are no qualifiers in this either: "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

This is a law given to the Israelites plain and simple. We are not a part of that government so it doesn't apply to our current condition.

Also, you dishonestly inserted the word "the" into that quote to try to imply that it was saying that Islam is the only faith. The actual quote can easily be interpreted as "any faith."

Unfortunately for you this passage wasn't written in a vacuum. Only if you're a complete hack could you make that passage mean any faith whatsoever. This is what the Quran has to say about "the people of the book".

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." 9:29

The page I linked says otherwise. Care to put forth some source that says this passage was written during an offensive attack?

The page I originally linked says otherwise, you obviously haven't read it.