Civil War Brewing

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Genx87

You do realize the biggest terrorist threats prior to 9/11 were Americans attacking Americans, right? I think a good hard look at our foreign policy would do worlds more for our country than throwing a few more eyes on the border would ever do. The enemy of my enemy is my friend != foreign policy.

You think or you know? You willing to risk a few million lives for that open border policy?

using fear to get your way again?

tsk tsk tsk.

oops forgot smiley

😛

This is called reality, I know sometimes that scares the hell out of some people.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Genx87

You do realize the biggest terrorist threats prior to 9/11 were Americans attacking Americans, right? I think a good hard look at our foreign policy would do worlds more for our country than throwing a few more eyes on the border would ever do. The enemy of my enemy is my friend != foreign policy.

You think or you know? You willing to risk a few million lives for that open border policy?

using fear to get your way again?

tsk tsk tsk.

oops forgot smiley

😛

This is called reality, I know sometimes that scares the hell out of some people.

ohhh yeah thats right, the whole "smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud" reality. Excuse me while I go digout my bombshelter!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
There's a relative handful of really rich people who run Mexico and everyone else is poor.[/i]"

That is the Soviet Union in a nutshell.

No, you may want to get a reality check, that is modern big-government cororate lobbyism run corruption filled modern "conservatism". Mexico is run by "conservatives" BTW.

Since we are getting into destroying common fairytales conservatism does not mean small government or conserving anything but the corrupts pockets.

Originally posted by: Genx87
Sweden again is not a pure "socialist" nation but a "mixed economy" nation like ours. The Soviets were socialist, not a mixed economy like ours or swedens. Sweden was not my example btw in case you arent paying attention.

Yes, Sweden is a democratic socialist country, there is no such thing as a "pure" socialist government. That would be communist, modern socialism in what the world considers socialism outside of some right-wing american blog is a blend of what has worked over the years. That is why it is called socialist and not communist, it is a fusion.

Socialism does not = communism
And communist regimes you name are not communist, they are totalitarian- in other words corrupt so far only the corrupt rulers have a voice, that destination can be travelled on many roads, right and left, corruption is the vehicle.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Well then I think we should look the other way at drug dealers. Afterall, they spend their money too right? Dont they go buy cars, houses, groceries, etc? God forbid we take away an income source!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1


Well then I think we should look the other way at drug dealers. Afterall, they spend their money too right? Dont they go buy cars, houses, groceries, etc? God forbid we take away an income source!

Well this is taking the "drugs are bad becasue they are illegal" thing to a new low.

 

[blackangst1]

I wouldnt have a problem giving amnesty to the illegalsd as long as I can continue to pay them $3/hr under the table with no benefits 😀

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Well then I think we should look the other way at drug dealers. Afterall, they spend their money too right? Dont they go buy cars, houses, groceries, etc? God forbid we take away an income source!

HERE! HERE! now you are thinking more like an elected official!! excellent.

so, why aren't we talking about those drug dealers we all know about and hate?

 

[Genx87]

No, you may want to get a reality check, that is modern big-government cororate lobbyism run corruption filled modern "conservatism". Mexico is run by "conservatives" BTW.

lol I dont know anything about Mexican politics other than Vicente Fox is a crook. But that doesnt change anything of what I said.

Yes, Sweden is a democratic socialist country, there is no such thing as a "pure" socialist government. That would be communist, modern socialism in what the world considers socialism outside of some right-wing american blog is a blend of what has worked over the years. That is why it is called socialist and not communist, it is a fusion.

Socialism does not = communism
And communist regimes you name are not communist, they are totalitarian- in other words corrupt so far only the corrupt rulers have a voice.

Well if you want to get technical they are a constitutional monarchy.

Socialism is the last step before communism. Havent you read your pamphlet lately?

For me I meld them together because the goals end up being the same. Communists and Socialists share the same bed. And totalitarian they are because in the end that is what pure socialism breeds along with poverty,corruption, and greed among other things.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87



Socialism is the last step before communism. Havent you read your pamphlet lately?

For me I meld them together because the goals end up being the same. Communists and Socialists share the same bed. And totalitarian they are because in the end that is what pure socialism breeds along with poverty,corruption, and greed among other things.

Lets say this out loud so hopefully it sinks in:
Socialism as a theory has no peoples revoloution aspect to it. That is communism or marxism.

Totalitarism is what the far right wing regimes of italy and germany were also, along with their buddy stalin.

All of these people LIED to their countrymen and promised one thing but did another for their own power. greed knows no party or political affiliation.

Originally posted by: Genx87

lol I dont know anything about Mexican politics other than Vicente Fox is a crook. But that doesnt change anything of what I said.

Yes, another republican crook, imagine that.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I wouldnt have a problem giving amnesty to the illegalsd as long as I can continue to pay them $3/hr under the table with no benefits 😀

Why so you can continue to drive wages down of real Americans? I was reading an very respected MIT economists article about this recently and he said in a nut-shell American workers would earn as much as 8% more if it weren't for the tsunami of undocumented Mexicans. Simple supply (laborers) and demand (available jobs) should tell you this.


The worst part is it's affecting everyone. It seems when an illegal takes that former factory job which used to pay $19 an hour and now pays $9, Jonny says no way Jose. Local Jonny sees that and goes to college and now you have way more college grads (supply) competing for the professional jobs (demand) which enables employers to pay less than ever.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Well then I think we should look the other way at drug dealers. Afterall, they spend their money too right? Dont they go buy cars, houses, groceries, etc? God forbid we take away an income source!

HERE! HERE! now you are thinking more like an elected official!! excellent.

so, why aren't we talking about those drug dealers we all know about and hate?

Becuase we lost that war 20 years ago 🙂

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87



Socialism is the last step before communism. Havent you read your pamphlet lately?

For me I meld them together because the goals end up being the same. Communists and Socialists share the same bed. And totalitarian they are because in the end that is what pure socialism breeds along with poverty,corruption, and greed among other things.

Lets say this out loud so hopefully it sinks in:
Socialism as a theory has no peoples revoloution aspect to it. That is communism or marxism.

Totalitarism is what the far right wing regimes of italy and germany were also, along with their buddy stalin.

All of these people LIED to their countrymen and promised one thing but did another for their own power. greed knows no party or political affiliation.

Are you saying the utopian communist dream is impossible? Gee you dont think that others have figured this out? And I believe Marx mentioned Socialism in his 3 step plan for communism moving away from capitalism. It was the 2nd step.

Unsurprisingly the fascists and Nazi's in Europe were really no different than their socialist brothers in the Soviet Union.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87



Socialism is the last step before communism. Havent you read your pamphlet lately?

For me I meld them together because the goals end up being the same. Communists and Socialists share the same bed. And totalitarian they are because in the end that is what pure socialism breeds along with poverty,corruption, and greed among other things.

Lets say this out loud so hopefully it sinks in:
Socialism as a theory has no peoples revoloution aspect to it. That is communism or marxism.

Totalitarism is what the far right wing regimes of italy and germany were also, along with their buddy stalin.

All of these people LIED to their countrymen and promised one thing but did another for their own power. greed knows no party or political affiliation.

Are you saying the utopian communist dream is impossible? Gee you dont think that others have figured this out? And I believe Marx mentioned Socialism in his 3 step plan for communism moving away from capitalism. It was the 2nd step.

Unsurprisingly the fascists and Nazi's in Europe were really no different than their socialist brothers in the Soviet Union.

Wow, holy time to crack a history book bushbot, there were huge differences in fascist italy, stalinist russia and nazi germany.

And yes, I agree that modern socialism does not follow the marxist plan, well,becasue it is not, there is no peoples revoloution or utopian aspect, it is a system of government, not some commie boogeyman.

The cold war is over, totalitarian regimes lost, a new one will rise up.

Welcome to the new corporate fascism, thanks to your neocon friends.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: Genx87
It will happen when a nuke is detonated in a major us city and found to have been smuggled across the unprotect open to the world mexican border.

You do realize the biggest terrorist threats prior to 9/11 were Americans attacking Americans, right? I think a good hard look at our foreign policy would do worlds more for our country than throwing a few more eyes on the border would ever do. The enemy of my enemy is my friend != foreign policy.

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Right, and the French police did a damn fine job protecting peoples property. Kudos to them.......

Property or peoples lives? It is obvious which one you value more. (and you have the nerve to try to assosiate me with dictators lol)

Guns do not make a civil society, plenty of countries are fine without, it is only the gun nuts who swear they are going to protect themselves against a F-16 with a handgun. :roll:

I value them nearly equally. A persons live is tied to his possessions. If you take a mans car, he might not be able to work.

Since you dont value property, can I have your video card?
Seriously.
Mines older then dirt.

Otherwise, facts proive you wrong. Crime has dropped in areas that issued CCW's.
You can be led around the nose by your emotions all you want, it doesnt change the facts.

Wow...just wow. A car is almost worth as much as someones life. Do you sell car insurance by chance? A perons life is not tied to their possessions. A persons possessions serve to improve ones life. If my car was wrecked today, I don't magically turn into dust. I file my insurance paper work and get a rental while repairs are done. If I didn't have insurance I could go down and buy another car. I started working without a car, so even then I couldn't rely on what I didn't have to be gainfully employeed.

I guess some of us want to get ahead in life.
Keep running around in circles chasing your tail, your very own lifestyle shows how hollow your argument is.
If you went and purchased something, obviously it has value to you. Its ridiculous to think you'd just hand it over and anyone who came asking.

I guess it goes back to rewarding criminals.

 

[Genx87]

Wow, holy time to crack a history book bushbot, there were huge differences in fascist italy, stalinist russia and nazi germany.

I think it is quite obvious what I was talking about in response to your "totalitarian" comment. Do I need to spoon feed you this exchange of words like usual again?

And yes, I agree that modern socialism does not follow the marxist plan, well,becasue it is not, there is no peoples revoloution or utopian aspect, it is a system of government, not some commie boogeyman.

The cold war is over, totalitarian regimes lost, a new one will rise up.

Welcome to the new corporate fascism, thanks to your neocon friends.

Pure Socialism is what we saw in the Soviet Union and it failed big time.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Pure Socialism is what we saw in the Soviet Union and it failed big time.

There is no such thing as pure socialism, that is communism.

And yes, the SU even failed at communism I agree.

It was a totalitarian regime, not worker controlled or any of the social aspects.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

The same can be said of drug dealers. They dont murder anyone, they dont steal property, etc. So do you think drug dealers should be given amnesty from the law also?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

The same can be said of drug dealers. They dont murder anyone, they dont steal property, etc. So do you think drug dealers should be given amnesty from the law also?

Do drug dealers contribute to the economy in as varied a way as 12 million "illegals". Does a drug dealer build homes, cook food in restaurant, perform janitorial services, yard work, or a myriad of other beneficial tasks? Is a drug dealer an upstanding citizen that you wouldn't mind living next door and perhaps even have watch your kids?

You keep focusing on this one factor when there are many benefits to be had with these 12 million "illegals".

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

The same can be said of drug dealers. They dont murder anyone, they dont steal property, etc. So do you think drug dealers should be given amnesty from the law also?

Do drug dealers contribute to the economy in as varied a way as 12 million "illegals". Does a drug dealer build homes, cook food in restaurant, perform janitorial services, yard work, or a myriad of other beneficial tasks? Is a drug dealer an upstanding citizen that you wouldn't mind living next door and perhaps even have watch your kids?

You keep focusing on this one factor when there are many benefits to be had with these 12 million "illegals".

Actually, yes they do contribute. And many sell drugs on the side while working a normal job. The more successful they are, the wealthier they are. The wealthier they are, the more money they spend, which is good for the economy.

Also, I wouldnt let an illegal immigrant watch my kids. They havent gone through the immigration process so who the fvck knows what they've done in their home country. The USA isnt the only country with pedophiles, rapists, and troublemakers ya know.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

The same can be said of drug dealers. They dont murder anyone, they dont steal property, etc. So do you think drug dealers should be given amnesty from the law also?

Do drug dealers contribute to the economy in as varied a way as 12 million "illegals". Does a drug dealer build homes, cook food in restaurant, perform janitorial services, yard work, or a myriad of other beneficial tasks? Is a drug dealer an upstanding citizen that you wouldn't mind living next door and perhaps even have watch your kids?

You keep focusing on this one factor when there are many benefits to be had with these 12 million "illegals".

Actually, yes they do contribute. And many sell drugs on the side while working a normal job. The more successful they are, the wealthier they are. The wealthier they are, the more money they spend, which is good for the economy.

Also, I wouldnt let an illegal immigrant watch my kids. They havent gone through the immigration process so who the fvck knows what they've done in their home country. The USA isnt the only country with pedophiles, rapists, and troublemakers ya know.

That's besides the point. You'd be hard pressed to tell an "Illegal" immigrant from your neighbours or even family members. They are just ordinary people doing ordinary things. Their only "crime" is crossing an abitrary line in the sand in search for a better life.

Your attempt to equate them with a drug dealer is ridiculous. You're obviously trying to make them look like something as insidious as the culturally viewed "Drug Dealer". What makes these "Illegals" so vile as to be compared to a Drug Dealer?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Pippy

Originally posted by: sandorski
Too many seem fixated on the "illegal" part of Illegal Immigrant. Along the same lines as "drugs are bad because they are illegal!" arguement. Like I said in another thread on the same subject, I think 90% of those complaing about "illegal immigrants" would stop complaining if amnesty(making illegals legal) were granted. They simply would no longer have a reason to be riled up about it.

The next time anyone gets worked up about the reported 12 million "illegals" consider the size of that number for a moment. That's a lot of people, doing a lot of Jobs, buying a lot of stuff, renting a lot of Homes. Also consider that there's no way you could deport them even if you wanted to, they are simply too numerous. Consider that the SS problem is due to a Demographic problem and these 12 million fit into the demographic where low numbers are a major factor in that problem. Consider all that and also that all the arguements of "they don't pay Taxes" and "they use up our services for free" would instantly vanish by granting them amnesty. Amnesty is a win-win situation.

Here, here!

I love it when people use the "because they're illegal argument" as well. What do you think congress is doing right now? They're trying to CHANGE the law so these people are NOT illegal. So all arguments using legality as a negative is mute. Some law will pass and guarantee you somehow these 12 million or part of, will become legal. And wtf is up with the legal immigrants saying "These people are not speaking on behalf of the legal population!" Hello! Think 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigrants at that time where illegal and bam they became legal, destroying the illegal argument.

Do *I* get amnesty from 1 felony I commit?
How about we give everyone in America 1 "Get out of jail free" card for a felony.
Sounds like a brillient idea doesnt it? We can just reward criminals!! GENIUS!

Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

The same can be said of drug dealers. They dont murder anyone, they dont steal property, etc. So do you think drug dealers should be given amnesty from the law also?

Do drug dealers contribute to the economy in as varied a way as 12 million "illegals". Does a drug dealer build homes, cook food in restaurant, perform janitorial services, yard work, or a myriad of other beneficial tasks? Is a drug dealer an upstanding citizen that you wouldn't mind living next door and perhaps even have watch your kids?

You keep focusing on this one factor when there are many benefits to be had with these 12 million "illegals".

Actually, yes they do contribute. And many sell drugs on the side while working a normal job. The more successful they are, the wealthier they are. The wealthier they are, the more money they spend, which is good for the economy.

Also, I wouldnt let an illegal immigrant watch my kids. They havent gone through the immigration process so who the fvck knows what they've done in their home country. The USA isnt the only country with pedophiles, rapists, and troublemakers ya know.

That's besides the point. You'd be hard pressed to tell an "Illegal" immigrant from your neighbours or even family members. They are just ordinary people doing ordinary things. Their only "crime" is crossing an abitrary line in the sand in search for a better life.

Your attempt to equate them with a drug dealer is ridiculous. You're obviously trying to make them look like something as insidious as the culturally viewed "Drug Dealer". What makes these "Illegals" so vile as to be compared to a Drug Dealer?

I'm not calling drug dealers vile...are you? And do you think you could pick out a drug dealer from your neighbor? They too are ordinary people trying to earn a buck. I'm wondering why you wouldnt support the repeal of drug laws and give amnesty to drug dealers if you support amnesty to illegals? It really is the same thing. Or can you point to a major difference?

 

[imported_sling]

Fixing Mexico would end this issue? 1) It's beyond repair in the next 50 years, 2) Not our problem, our problem is people jumping the fence. What do you do when your dog jumps the fence?


Build a bigger fence.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Thanks for volunteering as the perfect example. :thumbsup:

Most of these "felons" are productive members of society performing important tasks and keeping the wheels of economic activity turning. They haven't stolen any property, they haven't murdered anyone, and they are no different than the vast majority of Legal citizens. What harm could they have possibly done to you?

Guess that kinda shoots your argument all to hell now doesn it.
But lets not worry about FACTS, lets just let our emotions dictate policy eh?

Article

Here are some statistics from the Los Angeles Times:

40 percent of all workers are working for cash and not paying taxes. Why would they want to be legal and pay taxes? They would be able to start bringing the rest of their families to the USA.

75 percent of people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

Over two-thirds of all births are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by the taxpayers.

Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are here illegally.

Over 300,000 illegals are living in garages.

The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegals from south of the border.

Nearly 60 percent of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

Of the 10 million people in Los Angeles County, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.

21 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish speaking.

More statistics:

Less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare.

Over 70 percent of the U.S. annual population growth (over 90 percent of California, Florida and New York) are from immigration.

29 percent of inmates in the federal prisons are illegal aliens.

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative.

They also send between about $15 billion back to Mexico to assist their families and prop up the corrupt Mexican government that keeps most of its citizens in poverty. How about a revolt in their own country!

A new figure from yesterday: It cost Los Angeles $276 million in welfare costs for 100,000 children of illegal aliens.