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Christian Republicans??

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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
83
91
Originally posted by: Prism
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Prism
This just seems like an oxymoron to me, at least by our country's (USA) current examples of Republicans. Last time I checked, Christians are supposed to be all about helping your fellow man, not forcing your ideals on others, and not murdering people.

Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
-Pretty much tell people they're worthless if they're not Christian (Ann Coulter and the late Rev. Falwell to name a couple)
-Go to war (and stay there)

So...why do the majority of "Christians" in this country vote Republican? I don't think they should be allowed to call themselves Christians; at least the ones that agree with these currently predominantly Republican ideals (but they shouldn't be voting for these candidates that do support it in the first place).

EDIT: To the Mods: I meant to post this in P&N, so if you'd be so kind could ya move it over there?
You fail understanding of religion and politics.
Really? Refute any single one of my points. I dare you.
Originally posted by: loki8481
it's possible to consider yourself a member of any political party without following the most extremes of the party in lock-step.
 

atybimf

Platinum Member
Sep 17, 2005
2,390
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
:thumbsup:
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
11,828
3,060
136
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
wow, just when i thought i heard it all. whoooo-weee. just out of curiosity, might i ask how old you are? really?



 

atybimf

Platinum Member
Sep 17, 2005
2,390
0
0
Originally posted by: tweaker2
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
wow, just when i thought i heard it all. whoooo-weee. just out of curiosity, might i ask how old you are? really?
I'm personally a Libertarian and I'm speaking on principles here. I believe in a flat tax. That is truly fair. Why does my age matter? Does it make me any less entitled to an opinion? What's your objection to the statement?
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
11,828
3,060
136
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: tweaker2
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
wow, just when i thought i heard it all. whoooo-weee. just out of curiosity, might i ask how old you are? really?
I'm personally a Libertarian and I'm speaking on principles here. I believe in a flat tax. That is truly fair. Why does my age matter? Does it make me any less entitled to an opinion? What's your objection to the statement?
well, on the surface of it all, the phrase i bolded from your post seemed like something a young person in their late teens or early twenties would say, and i apologize if you're put off by the inference in any way.;)

edit - oh, and thanks for clarifying your views on the subject in question.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,112
3,155
126
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Prism
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Well. Good thing those bible reading church going Democrats are such an example. Nice flame though.

And for the record, as cliche as it is, the only difference between Christians and not is forgiveness. No where in the bible or any of its teachings does it teach Chistians are "better" than anyone. But I know ots fun to bash them and Republicans.
I don't understand either of your points. Please elaborate on the first one.

As for the second, I NEVER stated that Christians are better than anyone. I said that in the Bible, it says that you should be a good person by doing things like I said in the OP such as helping out your fellow man, not being a murderer, etc. I really don't know what you're trying to argue here.
To quote your OP:
his just seems like an oxymoron to me, at least by our country's (USA) current examples of Republicans. Last time I checked, Christians are supposed to be all about helping your fellow man, not forcing your ideals on others, and not murdering people.

Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
-Pretty much tell people they're worthless if they're not Christian (Ann Coulter and the late Rev. Falwell to name a couple)
-Go to war (and stay there)

So...why do the majority of "Christians" in this country vote Republican? I don't think they should be allowed to call themselves Christians; at least the ones that agree with these currently predominantly Republican ideals (but they shouldn't be voting for these candidates that do support it in the first place).
First, in your opening line, you clearly link Christians with GOP. I can very easily pull out bible passages that completely trash the Dems. So why single out Republicans? Hasnt the last few Dem presidents made it a point to make it known they attend church?

Second. Your first point about tax cuts IS in line with biblical guidelines. The bible clearly lays out its the PEOPLE'S responsiblily to take care of the poor, not the government's. Second, post a link to Falwell and Coulter saying non-Christians are worthless. I wont hold my breath.

Why do most Christians vote GOP instead? Because, although the core of the GOP has been trashed lately, the traditional view of the GOP is smaller government, less taxes, and free market. As I stated above, Christ advocated the PEOPLE taking care of the people, not the government. I'd love to see a quote showing God recommends government providing that help. Also, the "prosperity" doctrine is also biblical, as are many teachings on poverty. The bible makes no distinction faith-wise between the two, only that if handled appropriately, both lifestyles are biblical.
"The government" isn't some monolithic entity thrust upon us by aliens, we live in a democracy...what the government does is an extension of what we the people want it to do. If I vote for the government to help the poor, how is that fundamentally different from me helping the poor myself? And none of that "make other people pay for it" noise...I'm a single guy making a fair amount of money, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.
Your missing the key point about private vs. government charity from a Christian prospective - its suppose to be voluntary.

When the government is 'giving' charity, voted for or not, it is money that is taken not freely given.
Negative. That's a Political point of view, not Christian.
 

prism

Senior member
Oct 23, 2004
995
0
0
Originally posted by: tweaker2
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
wow, just when i thought i heard it all. whoooo-weee. just out of curiosity, might i ask how old you are? really?
I happened to read in another post he was 16, and not that I'm lambasting you atybimf for being young, I just want you to know that I was in the exact same boat as you when I was that age. However, now that I'm a bit older, I've had a chance to see and learn about some of the suffering in this country, and not all of it is the victims' fault.

Do welfare and other tax-funded programs help lazy, inconsiderate people who would rather get paychecks in their mailbox than put in an honest day's work? Of course. But it also helps out those who have grown up without any possibilities in their lives; people who live in the middle of gang-infested ghettos; working-class families who have had one deadbeat spouse leave the other (and you have to realize that the people who marry these deadbeats probably didn't know any better because they were raised in very sub-standard conditions).

Overall, I would gladly pay taxes to help out these people, even though some of it goes towards those who don't deserve it. The system obviously isn't perfect, but as it stands, I think it's better than no system. IMHO, this essentially is helping out your fellow man as described in the Bible. We have far too many people in this country too simply say that we can do a good job of helping each other out without a program like this.

And to throw one more thing out there, how the crap can Republicans want to keep the war in Iraq going and expect to receive tax cuts? This doesn't make any sense at all to anyone who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: Prism
Originally posted by: tweaker2
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
wow, just when i thought i heard it all. whoooo-weee. just out of curiosity, might i ask how old you are? really?
I happened to read in another post he was 16, and not that I'm lambasting you atybimf for being young, I just want you to know that I was in the exact same boat as you when I was that age. However, now that I'm a bit older, and realize I will never be extrmemely wealthy, I have become envious of the rich and think although they already pay the majority of the taxes in this country, they arent paying enough. We need to tax them MUCH more because they have more than I do. And the 12-18% that the middle class pays is too much.

Do welfare and other tax-funded programs help lazy, inconsiderate people who would rather get paychecks in their mailbox than put in an honest day's work? Of course. But it also helps out those who have grown up without any possibilities in their lives; people who live in the middle of gang-infested ghettos; working-class families who have had one deadbeat spouse leave the other (and you have to realize that the people who marry these deadbeats probably didn't know any better because they were raised in very sub-standard conditions).

Overall, I would gladly pay taxes to help out these people, even though some of it goes towards those who don't deserve it. The system obviously isn't perfect, but as it stands, I think it's better than no system. IMHO, this essentially is helping out your fellow man as described in the Bible. We have far too many people in this country too simply say that we can do a good job of helping each other out without a program like this.

And to throw one more thing out there, how the crap can Republicans want to keep the war in Iraq going and expect to receive tax cuts? This doesn't make any sense at all to anyone who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds.
Fixed for you.

And your excuses of "living in the ghetto" and marrying losers because "they were raised in very sub-standard conditions" is sickening. Talk about total lack of responsibility.
 

prism

Senior member
Oct 23, 2004
995
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Prism
Originally posted by: tweaker2
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: atybimf
Originally posted by: Prism
Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
Everyone knows Republicans want to spend less money because they hate poor, sick, children. That's precisely why..
Since when do Republicans want to spend less money? They want lower TAXES, but that's not really the same thing.

Actually, I think the difference there is a perfect explanation for the motivation. It's not about "hating poor, sick, children". It's about wanting to have more money in their pockets, independent of any other considerations. And I understand the idea, I don't like seeing all those federal and state taxes taken out of my paycheck either...but there is a fine line between actually having a position and just stamping your foot and complaining about it. You want lower taxes? Me too...so let's figure out a way to DO that.
I'm talking about a real, old school Republican, not these Neocons or whatever. A real Republican wants to spend less on education and healthcare (if we're talking about Medicare etc) because these are socialized plans. A real Republican gives a tax cut to the rich because its fair. Fair to me is not being punished for living the American dream. Apparently fair to you is taking my money and using it as handouts for others.
wow, just when i thought i heard it all. whoooo-weee. just out of curiosity, might i ask how old you are? really?
I happened to read in another post he was 16, and not that I'm lambasting you atybimf for being young, I just want you to know that I was in the exact same boat as you when I was that age. However, now that I'm a bit older, and realize I will never be extrmemely wealthy, I have become envious of the rich and think although they already pay the majority of the taxes in this country, they arent paying enough. We need to tax them MUCH more because they have more than I do. And the 12-18% that the middle class pays is too much.

Do welfare and other tax-funded programs help lazy, inconsiderate people who would rather get paychecks in their mailbox than put in an honest day's work? Of course. But it also helps out those who have grown up without any possibilities in their lives; people who live in the middle of gang-infested ghettos; working-class families who have had one deadbeat spouse leave the other (and you have to realize that the people who marry these deadbeats probably didn't know any better because they were raised in very sub-standard conditions).

Overall, I would gladly pay taxes to help out these people, even though some of it goes towards those who don't deserve it. The system obviously isn't perfect, but as it stands, I think it's better than no system. IMHO, this essentially is helping out your fellow man as described in the Bible. We have far too many people in this country too simply say that we can do a good job of helping each other out without a program like this.

And to throw one more thing out there, how the crap can Republicans want to keep the war in Iraq going and expect to receive tax cuts? This doesn't make any sense at all to anyone who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds.
Fixed for you.

And your excuses of "living in the ghetto" and marrying losers because "they were raised in very sub-standard conditions" is sickening. Talk about total lack of responsibility.
Total lack of responsibility? A child that is raised in the ghetto, surrounded by gangs and has deadbeat parents should just be left to fend for him/herself? Have you no sympathy for anyone, or are you just a spoiled brat that doesn't need to think of others?

Oh, and thanks for "fixing" my post. If you want to threadshit, do so elsewhere.
 

atybimf

Platinum Member
Sep 17, 2005
2,390
0
0
Originally posted by: Prism
I happened to read in another post he was 16, and not that I'm lambasting you atybimf for being young, I just want you to know that I was in the exact same boat as you when I was that age. However, now that I'm a bit older, I've had a chance to see and learn about some of the suffering in this country, and not all of it is the victims' fault.

Do welfare and other tax-funded programs help lazy, inconsiderate people who would rather get paychecks in their mailbox than put in an honest day's work? Of course. But it also helps out those who have grown up without any possibilities in their lives; people who live in the middle of gang-infested ghettos; working-class families who have had one deadbeat spouse leave the other (and you have to realize that the people who marry these deadbeats probably didn't know any better because they were raised in very sub-standard conditions).

Overall, I would gladly pay taxes to help out these people, even though some of it goes towards those who don't deserve it. The system obviously isn't perfect, but as it stands, I think it's better than no system. IMHO, this essentially is helping out your fellow man as described in the Bible. We have far too many people in this country too simply say that we can do a good job of helping each other out without a program like this.

And to throw one more thing out there, how the crap can Republicans want to keep the war in Iraq going and expect to receive tax cuts? This doesn't make any sense at all to anyone who thinks about it for more than 2 seconds.
I don't like welfare (most kinds at least). I think it creates dependency. Its a cycle. At some point you have to break the cycle of dependency on the government and people have to learn the hard way. However, welfare for those that are either not physically or mentally able to take care of themselves is completely fine with me. The rest is not.

I think there are better and more cost effective ways of helping those in need besides handouts. You're taking away the opportunity for businesses to compete in a truly free market setting when you throw the Federal Gov. into the equation. In turn you have programs that are huge money pits that don't get very much done.

I'm atheist, so I'm not going to comment on the Christian thing. Yeah, I'm young but at least I'm not one of the know it all college kids that regurgitates every 'save the world' idea his professor tells him..
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,378
17
81
Originally posted by: Squisher
Well, with me not being a Christian I'm a little hamstrung here, but with a little googling there seems to be a lot of inferences in the Bible that condone the death penalty.

This was the first link google sent back.
The Bible is overwhelmingly in direct opposition to the death penalty. Some common themes throughout include:

1. Do not judge lest ye be judged. Essentially, God is our ruler and is the only true authority capable of judging mankind.

2. As the creator of life, only God is justified in taking it away.

3. Forgiveness. As a Christian, you're supposed to forgive anything, and understand that everything is part of God's plan and happens for a reason, even if it seems impossible to understand.

4. Love. "Love thy neighbour" and "worship and glorify God in everything you do" are widely considered to be the Two Commandments of Christianity. Think about that, and then picture the death penalty. :light:

Taking Biblical quotes out of context (like the "eye for an eye" part) is dangerous. You can quote pretty much anything out of context and it will say what you want it to say. IMO the Bible needs to be understood as an entire document.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
11,625
165
106
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Evangelical Christians are all about hate, intolerance, and rejection of science.
as a progressive catholic, i find it unfortunate to see that most americans lump ALL christians as ultra right wing you're-all-going-to-hell assholes. it seems that in most religions only the zealots get their voice heard and all the moderates have to suffer with being associated with them :(
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,064
0
0
If they really believed in the teachings of "Jesus", they'd be fighting alongside liberal activists and peace loving hippies. Alas, they do not. I, as an atheist, am a better christian. Ironic!

They're not following the teachings of a good man, they're following a religion. They don't believe in being a good person so much as they believe in getting their greedy asses into heaven when they die. It's cowardice, not righteousness.

Edit: "Christians", don't feel special or let this go to your head, I used Jesus as an example. I hold your religion in about as high regard as I do Islam, Judaism, etcetera.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,915
0
0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Squisher
Well, with me not being a Christian I'm a little hamstrung here, but with a little googling there seems to be a lot of inferences in the Bible that condone the death penalty.

This was the first link google sent back.
The Bible is overwhelmingly in direct opposition to the death penalty. Some common themes throughout include:

1. Do not judge lest ye be judged. Essentially, God is our ruler and is the only true authority capable of judging mankind.

2. As the creator of life, only God is justified in taking it away.

3. Forgiveness. As a Christian, you're supposed to forgive anything, and understand that everything is part of God's plan and happens for a reason, even if it seems impossible to understand.

4. Love. "Love thy neighbour" and "worship and glorify God in everything you do" are widely considered to be the Two Commandments of Christianity. Think about that, and then picture the death penalty. :light:

Taking Biblical quotes out of context (like the "eye for an eye" part) is dangerous. You can quote pretty much anything out of context and it will say what you want it to say.
IMO the Bible needs to be understood as an entire document.
You mean kindof like what you just did?

How about you take a read at the book of Genesis and come back again when you read the part the proves you wrong. I'll give you a hint its in Ch. 4 & Ch. 9.

Jesus practiced mercy to certain people in the New Testament, but that does not over throw Old Testament law like other things that happened did (such as his resurrection did away with the need for sacrifices).
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
So go ahead and ask for everyone's resignation that voted for the war and refuse to reelect them. I think that is fair.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,991
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
it's possible to consider yourself a member of any political party without following the most extremes of the party in lock-step.
That is true but the (R)'s do a great job of pandering to the evangelicals and they are very receptive. Usually when I see a 'W' or 'Bush/Cheney' bumper sticker it's accompanied by one from the local christian radio station and/or jesus fish. Same goes for the pro-life and marriage = man+woman stuff.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,991
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1

(snip)

Why do most Christians vote GOP instead? Because, although the core of the GOP has been trashed lately, the traditional view of the GOP is smaller government, less taxes, and free market. As I stated above, Christ advocated the PEOPLE taking care of the people, not the government. I'd love to see a quote showing God recommends government providing that help. Also, the "prosperity" doctrine is also biblical, as are many teachings on poverty. The bible makes no distinction faith-wise between the two, only that if handled appropriately, both lifestyles are biblical.
Given that GWB&Co were doing a terrible job in their first term do you really think government size, taxes, and free market had anything to do with them winning again in '04? I remember topics like abortion, same sex marriage, and embryonic stem cells being hammered on. Maybe so things like the Iraq war and economy would get less focus?
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,378
17
81
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Squisher
Well, with me not being a Christian I'm a little hamstrung here, but with a little googling there seems to be a lot of inferences in the Bible that condone the death penalty.

This was the first link google sent back.
The Bible is overwhelmingly in direct opposition to the death penalty. Some common themes throughout include:

1. Do not judge lest ye be judged. Essentially, God is our ruler and is the only true authority capable of judging mankind.

2. As the creator of life, only God is justified in taking it away.

3. Forgiveness. As a Christian, you're supposed to forgive anything, and understand that everything is part of God's plan and happens for a reason, even if it seems impossible to understand.

4. Love. "Love thy neighbour" and "worship and glorify God in everything you do" are widely considered to be the Two Commandments of Christianity. Think about that, and then picture the death penalty. :light:

Taking Biblical quotes out of context (like the "eye for an eye" part) is dangerous. You can quote pretty much anything out of context and it will say what you want it to say.
IMO the Bible needs to be understood as an entire document.
You mean kindof like what you just did?

How about you take a read at the book of Genesis and come back again when you read the part the proves you wrong. I'll give you a hint its in Ch. 4 & Ch. 9.

Jesus practiced mercy to certain people in the New Testament, but that does not over throw Old Testament law like other things that happened did (such as his resurrection did away with the need for sacrifices).
Again, you're quoting two small examples to make a point when there is a multitude of information in the Bible that suggests otherwise.

That logic leads to flawed views, such as those which suggest that blood transfusions should never be performed, and that only 144,000 people will ever make it into heaven. :light:
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Originally posted by: Prism
This just seems like an oxymoron to me, at least by our country's (USA) current examples of Republicans. Last time I checked, Christians are supposed to be all about helping your fellow man, not forcing your ideals on others, and not murdering people.

Seems to me that this is exactly the opposite of what Republicans are all about. They like to:
-Give tax cuts to the rich and spend less money on education and health care
-Pretty much tell people they're worthless if they're not Christian (Ann Coulter and the late Rev. Falwell to name a couple)
-Go to war (and stay there)

So...why do the majority of "Christians" in this country vote Republican? I don't think they should be allowed to call themselves Christians; at least the ones that agree with these currently predominantly Republican ideals (but they shouldn't be voting for these candidates that do support it in the first place).

EDIT: To the Mods: I meant to post this in P&N, so if you'd be so kind could ya move it over there?
Going to war is not forbidden by Christianity. A Christian need not be a pacifist.

Please provide a source for the tax cuts to the rich argument.

Everyone, not just Christians, is dogmatic in some sense. Everyone believes that they act in the right, and those that contradict them are wrong. It's part of being human.

If anything, no Christian should rightly identify with being a liberal. If Christians so abhor murder, certainly they should abhor abortion, which accounts for quite a few lives lost.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,464
719
126
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: blackangst1

(snip)

Why do most Christians vote GOP instead? Because, although the core of the GOP has been trashed lately, the traditional view of the GOP is smaller government, less taxes, and free market. As I stated above, Christ advocated the PEOPLE taking care of the people, not the government. I'd love to see a quote showing God recommends government providing that help. Also, the "prosperity" doctrine is also biblical, as are many teachings on poverty. The bible makes no distinction faith-wise between the two, only that if handled appropriately, both lifestyles are biblical.
Given that GWB&Co were doing a terrible job in their first term do you really think government size, taxes, and free market had anything to do with them winning again in '04? I remember topics like abortion, same sex marriage, and embryonic stem cells being hammered on. Maybe so things like the Iraq war and economy would get less focus?
In a word, yes. There was nothing wrong with economy, so that wasnt an issue. You also have to remember he was coming down from a year and a half of very high (60+% many times) approval rating.

As of May 24, 2004

Approve
Now 41%
Two weeks ago 44%
5/2003 64%

Disapprove
Now 52%
Two weeks ago 49%
5/2003 29%

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,850
8,171
126
It never ceases to amaze me how people can take highly complex things, like the world's largest religion for example, and pretend that they are simple and uniform.

Christianity is a highly diverse religion. Ranging from "Jesus Camp" fundamentalists on one extreme to Unitarian Universalists on the other, and thousands upon thousands of differing sects in between. So this thread is pretty much all ignorant BS.

That said, however, the political ideology that the OP describes as Republican fits well within Calvinist belief systems. So there you go.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jaskalas: People died in WW2, should we have been patsies and avoided our participation? Debate any particular war you want, but to suggest people must be pacifists to be good is abhorrent and stinks of the deepest of liberal ideals.
--------

So when Jesus went up on the cross and forgave his killers he was a stinking liberal?
Well yeah, after a few days up there I imagine he was pretty stinky.
 

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