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Christ! Agent Orange!!!

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Originally posted by: tami
this happened in vietnam WHEN? some of these kids are babies. 'nam happened decades ago. i'm really confused as to why these families would remain in a highly polluted area and produce offspring that have horrible defects when they had maybe 30 years to get out of there and prevent that from happening.
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is it possible the agent orange does permanent damage to the body or chromosomes?
 
Originally posted by: Amused
No one is going to question whether this was caused by "agent orange" and what the proof of a direct link is?

You do know that random mutations occur naturally, right?
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Quoted for truth.

However, I wouldn't doubt that one of the defoliants was the root cause. We poured 5.67 million gallons of each of these on vietnam

2,4-D (2,4-dichlorophenoxy acetic acid)
2,4,5-T (2,4,5-trichlorophenoxy acetic acid)

Considering how the ecosystem naturally spreads toxins through water, wind and animals, it would be pretty hard to prove that Agent Orange wasn't responsible either.
 
Originally posted by: ribbon13
Originally posted by: Amused
No one is going to question whether this was caused by "agent orange" and what the proof of a direct link is?

You do know that random mutations occur naturally, right?
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth.

However, I wouldn't doubt that one of the defoliants was the root cause. We poured 5.67 million gallons of each of these on vietnam

2,4-D (2,4-dichlorophenoxy acetic acid)
2,4,5-T (2,4,5-trichlorophenoxy acetic acid)

Considering how the ecosystem naturally spreads toxins through water, wind and animals, it would be pretty hard to prove that Agent Orange wasn't responsible either.
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"Agent Orange" contained .0002 of 1 percent of dioxin. Dioxin degrades in sunlight after 48 to 72 hours.

It is my opinion that just like "Gulf Lore Syndrome," the "Agent Orange" myth is largely just that, a myth.
 
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: tami
this happened in vietnam WHEN? some of these kids are babies. 'nam happened decades ago. i'm really confused as to why these families would remain in a highly polluted area and produce offspring that have horrible defects when they had maybe 30 years to get out of there and prevent that from happening.
Click to expand...

is it possible the agent orange does permanent damage to the body or chromosomes?
Click to expand...

i don't know. do you know?

and i hate to be insensitive (that's not the intention of my statements), but usually, when you know you possess a genetic defect that can affect offspring, normally people opt not to have children. in fact, my fiance and i needed to take genetic blood tests to make sure we didn't possess any genes that may affect our children.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
No one is going to question whether this was caused by "agent orange" and what the proof of a direct link is? You do know that random mutations occur naturally, right?
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Yeah, I see American kids like that, walking down the street every day... *boggle*
I mean, why would anyone even remotely suspect that this might have anything to do with Agent Orange? Bah, it's just something in the water over there. Toxic mutagenic chemicals had nothing to do with it, even if they did just "happen" to be used in the area in the past.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
It is my opinion that just like "Gulf Lore Syndrome," the "Agent Orange" myth is largely just that, a myth.
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That's pretty insulting to both my grandfather that served proudly in the US military, as well as all of the other soldiers that risked their lives in Desert Storm/Shield. You really think that all of them suddenly became paranoid delusional liars when they returned from combat? That's it's all one coldly-calculated scheme cooked up by some shady lawyers to extract money from the US gov't based on assertions made from some soldiers? You really amaze me with your diverse viewpoints.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
"Agent Orange" contained .0002 of 1 percent of dioxin. Dioxin degrades in sunlight after 48 to 72 hours.

It is my opinion that just like "Gulf Lore Syndrome," the "Agent Orange" myth is largely just that, a myth.
Click to expand...

TCDD (2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin) is an unavoidable, and unwanted, by-product of the manufacture of 2,4,5-T. However, in domestic preparations, it is present in much lower concentrations, 0.05 ppm (parts per million) as opposed to peaks of 50 ppm in stock shipped to Vietnam. Therefore dioxin contamination of Agent Orange was up to 1,000 times higher than in domestic herbicides. TCDD is believed to be the most toxic of the dioxins, a family of chemicals that has been described as, "the most toxic substances known to humans".(1,2)

--

So. Are you saying that it would take more than 48 hours for the genome of every fvcking living things to be contaminated? Seriously. What happens at the bottom of the food-chain moves to the top.
 
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: MisfitsFiend

Should the US give $$ to Vietnam for the widespread use of Agent Orange?

from a couple of weeks ago...
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My vote...no. It was war, sh!t happens.
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Agree. If the US were to give money you might as well make the Vietnamese Communists payout compensation to all the families they murdered and destroyed during their purges. But, that's not likely to happen.
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And, of course, it will never be brought up.
 
So I'm assuming that if we just give the affected Vietnamese enough money that everything will be happy and joyful? I think not.

Obviously what happened to those children is horrible, and can reasonably be agreed to that it was caused by Agent Orange. I'm sure that if things could have been done differently to not cause those problems they would have been. For that, you can't blame individuals in the military. War sucks, and it is inevitable that there will be collateral damage.

As for the Sloth joke - it's funny, even if it is a little insensitive (I laughed). For those of you upset about it, grow up. No one wants to see children grow up in anything but a perfect environment - however life is not utopic. Might as well have a sense of humor.... EVERY joke could be considered offensive by someone.
 
Do you (Americans) realize that, in the eyes of all the foreigners reading this thread, you come across as a bunch of arrogant, insensitive boors? I feel absolutely disgusted by some of the stuff I read here.
 
Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Do you (Americans) realize that, in the eyes of all the foreigners reading this thread, you come across as a bunch of arrogant, insensitive boors? I feel absolutely disgusted by some of the stuff I read here.
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And do you (foreigners) realize that we (Americans) feel that nothing, outside of reducing our country to rubble and giving away all our money, would change any of your minds?

Our court system is a POS, and it is unfortunate that lawyers are the winners, while everyone else loses.
 
Those images were definitely shocking and saddening. I feel bad for those kids.

But I suspect that those images were mainly used to evoke an emotional response and forget about reason. Birth defects do happen naturally. Unless they can prove that the rate of these birth defects is substantially higher than in surrounded areas that they did not apply agent orange, they'll have a very hard time proving causation. Shocking images win in the court of (uneducated) popular opinion, but they don't hold much weight in a court of law.

 
Originally posted by: eigen

didnt really phase me....My dad was part of tiger force...
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Tiger_force_120803.htm

So I had known we murdered innocent people since I was young.My dad philsophy was that If they are dead they cant kill you...It worked.Sorry the kids life is ruined but better him than my family.
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Holy S***! I had no idea. I love my country, but these are U.S. government sanctioned massacres. New sig material.

NFS4, poor taste. I *almost* wish your child turns out like that.
 
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: eigen

well me and NFS4 did...Sue us...
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It's not that I found it funny, it's the FIRST thing that came to my mind when I saw the picture. The rest of you had better not lie and say that you didn't think it too...
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i don't even know WTF you're talking about, let alone would i think of it.
 
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