Chris Christie to sign New Jersey ban on gay conversion therapy

[Spungo]

Those were religious zealots.

Please do not confuse zealots and conservatives, they are not the same.

In the US, they are interchangeable. More than 50% of republicans believe in young earth creationism which basically contradicts all known science. The only reason they believe in young earth creationism is because they are religious extremists. Canada and Europe both have very large Christian populations, but even they think creationists are totally nuts. Most Christians in the world believe in evolution. The oldest and largest branch of Christianity, the Catholics, officially accept evolution as a fact.

You have presented no evidence to backup your statement.

My evidence is this thread. While study after study show that gay men have brains that are strikingly similar to heterosexual female brains, conservatives ignore all of that data and empirical observations (gay interior decorator stereotype) and insist that it's some kind of personal choice that was possibly inspired by demons or evil spirits. If you pray hard enough and trust Jesus as your savior, those urges will go away, just like how praying reduces cravings for sugar when someone has untreated diabetes. If they pray hard enough, their brains will actually restructure in such a way that grey matter is increased and white matter is decreased so it looks more like a masculine brain, right?

A lot of women are femenist until they have a child. Then they want to stay home and become homemakers.

I bet. We support things like the right to vote until we have kids. Then our tone changes and we don't want to vote anymore. 🙄

Education might make young adults liberals, but life experience makes them conservatives.

And it's purely a coincidence that this happens around the time the brain starts to deteriorate. Levels of testosterone and estrogen go into free fall. Dopamine and serotonin levels go down, imitating the effects of ADHD and Parkinson's Disease. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, indeed. Internet? What's that? Some series of tubes or something? The brain also sees declining levels of things like acetylcholine, which causes memory loss. You can simulate this particular type of memory fog by taking the sedating type of antihistamines. It's also around this time that older people start taking drugs for things, many of which affect cognition. During chemotherapy, my dad completely lost his ability to comprehend the most basic problems. He was trying to assemble a barbecue and he had trouble with things like understanding object rotation.

 

[CountZero]

The one where people read the OP apparently...

In which the state of NJ banned getting therapy to become straight even if you want it.

They are telling you you can't force your children into a conversion camp just because they are gay.

YOU, as an adult, can go in for all the conversion you want but you can't force it on your kids.

 

[shadow9d9]

You can't change how someone is born.

People become liberal if they become educated and are exposed to multiple cultures/lifestyles. They become even more liberal if they continue to educate themselves and view the constant failures of conservatism- Slavery, segregation, racism, anti abortion, anti women voting, anti union, anti interracial marriage, anti healthcare access for everyone, anti gay marriage, fiscal policy that has created the largest gap between the rich and poor in the last 100 years, anti regulation leading to incidents like the gulf oil spill, and constant needless wars and occupations.

 

[shadow9d9]

They are telling you you can't force your children into a conversion camp just because they are gay.

YOU, as an adult, can go in for all the conversion you want but you can't force it on your kids.

Well, Nehalem hasn't gone in for therapy for any of his problem, so don't keep your expectations high!

 

[michal1980]

They are telling you you can't force your children into a conversion camp just because they are gay.

YOU, as an adult, can go in for all the conversion you want but you can't force it on your kids.

What other choices should parents be banned from? No fast food until kids are 18, no soda, no sport that's 'extreme' etc etc.


where do you draw the line?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

What other choices should parents be banned from? No fast food until kids are 18, no soda, no sport that's 'extreme' etc etc.


where do you draw the line?

Honest question. Do you see those things as parallel to the topic of discussion?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

The one where people read the OP apparently...

Apparently the OP is different in your universe, because it does not say the things you said it does.

In which the state of NJ banned getting therapy to become straight even if you want it.

That isn't what you said. Where does it say that NJ residents must "stay gay"?

It would also be interesting to here you defend the idea that a "gay person that wants to be straight" is a coherent idea. How does that work in your strange world?

 

[zinfamous]

I think the 'conversion therapy' is compete BS, it's like some therapy to make a left handed person all of a sudden become right handed. That said, I don't see why there needs to be a legal ban on it. If someone wants to try, have at it.

the whole "cruel and unusual thing." You recognize, aptly, that it is akin to forcing someone to be/do something that they are not.

When there is absolutely no medical basis in this so-called conversion therapy, and that it does nothing but absolute harm, then it is considered malpractice.

Ignorant dingleberries that still subscribe to these bronze-age quakery are the ones that make a ban necessary. So, in a way, yet--it is terrible that there needs to be a ban--but that is the point.

"If someone wants to try, have it," is like saying "If someone wants to try and cure their chicken pox by swallowing lead pills, have at it!"

 

[michal1980]

Honest question. Do you see those things as parallel to the topic of discussion?

Topic on hand is extreme. But there are parallels. The state is taking parental rights away. Something that should never be done lightly. And never because of popular opinion

 

[Texashiker]

the whole "cruel and unusual thing." You recognize, aptly, that it is akin to forcing someone to be/do something that they are not.

I would like to go live in the mountains, maybe in Alaska above the Arctic circle.

But this thing called child support makes me go to work or I go to jail.

Is it cruel and unusual punishment that I have to do something I do not want to do?

I feel that I was born in the wrong millennium, and to the wrong species. I feel that I should have been born 30,000 years ago and a neanderthal. But I am being forced to conform to social norms.

 

[brycejones]

I would like to go live in the mountains, maybe in Alaska above the Arctic circle.

But this thing called child support makes me go to work or I go to jail.

So you don't want to take responsibility for your child? Lame.

 

[UberNeuman]

I would like to go live in the mountains, maybe in Alaska above the Arctic circle.

But this thing called child support makes me go to work or I go to jail.

Is it cruel and unusual punishment that I have to do something I do not want to do?

I feel that I was born in the wrong millennium, and to the wrong species. I feel that I should have been born 30,000 years ago and a neanderthal. But I am being forced to conform to social norms.

Do you not see the irony in this based on your opinions in this thread?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I feel that I should have been born 30,000 years ago and a neanderthal. But I am being forced to conform to social norms.

Siggable. If we were allowed more than one quote per sig, I probably would.

 

[Texashiker]

So you don't want to take responsibility for your child? Lame.

I take good care of my children.

Do you not see the irony in this based on your opinions in this thread?

Nope.

We all have things in our lives we do not like. Why should gays receive special treatment?

I think the federal government should set aside a few million acres for people who wish to live a caveman lifestyle. But I doubt that is going to happen.

Siggable. If we were allowed more than one quote per sig, I probably would.

Thank you.

 

[Incorruptible]

If these are private businesses and the conversions are voluntary then he has no right to ban them. If there a kids under 18 being forced to go then there is a problem.

The guy who sponsored the bill is gay and I just wish he would be this concerned with all gay people who are unfairly treated. Has he said anything about countries who execute gay people?

 

[BlueWolf47]

If these are private businesses and the conversions are voluntary he has no right to ban them. If there a kids under 18 being forced to go then there is a problem.

The guy who sponsored the bill is gay and I just wish he would be this concerned with all gay people who are unfairly treated. Has he said anything about countries who execute gay people?

Incorruptible is always there to make sure we lower our standards to meet the standards of other countries. You are a true patriot.

 

[brycejones]

I take good care of my children.

But you only seem to do it because you are afraid of going to jail if you don't at least according to your earlier comments.

 

[LightPattern]

Forcing someone into "therapy" should always be recognized as wrong. It needs to be a choice, especially with something as intimate as sex.

I have four female friends who went through phases in their sexual orientation.
Two of them had girlfriends they were sexually active with, before deciding for various reasons it wasn't right for them. They've been exclusive with guys ever since.
One of them continues to say she is bisexual, though she's only had straight sexual experiences, is happily married, and says she never seriously thinks about sex outside her marriage. She also enjoys writing about and roleplaying people that are mentally disturbed so.. some people read into that. She's a great gal though! A creative & loyal soul.
The last of the four is the most disturbed. She was raped in her sorority, then dated one of the girls that participated in it.. now mostly makes references about them at odd times then refuses to talk about it. You never hear about girl-girl rape, but it happens. Anyway, for the last several years she's exclusively dated guys, but I've watched her dance with one of her gay friends so sexually that it made the friend uncomfortable so.. yeah.

I wonder if greater acceptance of gay people will fix all the mental confusion that seems to surround it so often, or if it'll just make it worse because as a kid you will be told you can be anything you want to be.. including a furry, a vamp, a werewolf, pansexual, omnisexual (Philip of Macedon)...

There are some things to be said for having stable cultural expectations one can live up to or rebel against, rather then the shifting mire we have in so much of the world now.

 

[LightPattern]

Additional? If a kid is Gay, they are Gay. Trying to make them Straight is "additional". So ya, you are inadvertently correct, just not in the way you think.

So you're one who doesn't believe people can change?
I used to think the same thing about sexual orientation, based on what I saw on TV. Now that I've had real life experience with gay & bisexual people (including good friends), I understand the issue is more muddied than that.
In any case, a "treatment" making unsubstantiated claims about what they can do, and several of the methods described in OP's article are obviously horribly wrong.

Perhaps minding your own business is something you should consider?

Some of us have life experiences we think about and wish to share on this forum.
But more specifically, I suspect that is something you are saying only because you oppose the other side of the argument.

 

[sandorski]

So you're one who doesn't believe people can change?
I used to think the same thing about sexual orientation, based on what I saw on TV. Now that I've had real life experience with gay & bisexual people (including good friends), I understand the issue is more muddied than that.
In any case, a "treatment" making unsubstantiated claims about what they can do, and several of the methods described in OP's article are obviously horribly wrong.



Some of us have life experiences we think about and wish to share on this forum.
But more specifically, I suspect that is something you are saying only because you oppose the other side of the argument.

1) No, people change all the time. Forcing someone to be what they are not is vile though. Someone choosing to change is fine, someone forcing someone else to change is unacceptable(unless they are a danger to society, like a murderous psychopath)

2) No, it's because he clearly wants to impose something on someone over an issue he refuses to understand. He can do whatever he wants, except force others to conform to his opinions on the matter.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It is a behavioral issue, and it is a choice people make.

Sounds to me that Christie caved to political correctness.

I would like to see some studies done on gay conversion. Lets see the evidence and go from there.

Its not a behavioral issue.....some people are born that way!

 

[Wreckem]

Topic on hand is extreme. But there are parallels. The state is taking parental rights away. Something that should never be done lightly. And never because of popular opinion

Parental rights are taken away when its in the best interests of the child. This meets that standard.

 

[LightPattern]

1) No, people change all the time. Forcing someone to be what they are not is vile though. Someone choosing to change is fine, someone forcing someone else to change is unacceptable(unless they are a danger to society, like a murderous psychopath)

2) No, it's because he clearly wants to impose something on someone over an issue he refuses to understand. He can do whatever he wants, except force others to conform to his opinions on the matter.

1) Ok. We're in full agreement there.

2) I value Atreus21's input. He makes his points - that I would label conservative - much more rationally than others attempting to make conservative points of view clear on this board.
I don't see refusal to understand. Is he really forcing his opinion more so than people on the other side of the issue?

 

[justoh]

I take good care of my children.

By lying to them? Christianity=child abuse.

 

[nehalem256]

Apparently the OP is different in your universe, because it does not say the things you said it does.

That isn't what you said. Where does it say that NJ residents must "stay gay"?

You are prohibiting them from seeking professional help. It would be the same as banning gyms and food counseling for an obese person. Well I guess they might be able to get over the "problem" by themselves you are effectively telling them to stay the way they are.

It would also be interesting to here you defend the idea that a "gay person that wants to be straight" is a coherent idea. How does that work in your strange world?

The same way that an obese person might want to become thinner.

People have many urges and desires and it is not uncommon for them to want to change them.

They are telling you you can't force your children into a conversion camp just because they are gay.

YOU, as an adult, can go in for all the conversion you want but you can't force it on your kids.

Perhaps you should try reading the last line of the article:

But, they also heard from Tara King, a Brick-based counselor, who said she should be allowed to "fix" what patients, even under-aged clients, want fixed.

They are banning teens from willingly undergoing therapy.