Discussion China's Military Prowess

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If the USA and China go to war, who will win?


  • Total voters
    34

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
It's a military parade. Preferred dick lengthen-er of countries that lack serious capability. Nothing China has shown is game changing or scary.

The US blows away China interns of training, capability and experience. On top of actual combat hours and all the lessons learned from that, from a pure training perspective where we not only put the time in to train, we train with countries all over the world.
We've been engaged in continuous military operations longer than many posters on this forum have been alive.
Everything China has is nothing more than something else we mitigate with training.

No one trains with China except shit nations like Russia where the whole things is basically a political spectacle. The only military operations China has experience in are ....oh wait nothing relevant in modern history. They have mockups in Mongolia where they pretend to train in front of communist party official but that doesn't count.

Is China a threat to Taiwan?
Of course they are because Taiwan is a nobody with minimal capability. Taiwan is also recognized as "china stuff".

China is threat to the Philippines, Vietnam and every tiny nation in the area.

China makes some passable equipment if you can't afford 21st century weaponry (checks year...notices its 2019) AND the continuous training that is required to make the crap usable. ask the Saudi's what it feels like to posses billion so semi-modern equipment that on paper exceeds what the Chinese have and being a crap excuse of a military.
Is it good? Yes if you are not fighting the US.

The biggest issue with the United States is generally picky about war stuff since we are always killing people the simple fact that invading the United States is just about impossible.
We lose interest pretty easily if money or crazy christian values aren't at risk.

If China were to invade Taiwan, the GOP would have a universal orgasm as their end of days fantasy about being close to Jesus would appear to come to fruition.
Once the they discover Jesus did't appear they would go through the normal cost benefit scenario of "how many investments are at risk"

Lets look at something relevant and why this discussion is nothing but masturbation material for people who play too much call of duty.
Keep in mind that a lot of these exports to nation A are do to Nation A using those imports to create goods for the United States
  1. United States: US$479.7 billion (19.2% of total Chinese exports)
  2. Hong Kong: $303 billion (12.1%)
  3. Japan: $147.2 billion (5.9%)
  4. South Korea: $109 billion (4.4%)
  5. Vietnam: $84 billion (3.4%)
  6. Germany: $77.9 billion (3.1%)
  7. India: $76.9 billion (3.1%)
  8. Netherlands: $73.1 billion (2.9%)
  9. United Kingdom: $57 billion (2.3%)
  10. Singapore: $49.8 billion (2%)
  11. Taiwan: $48.7 billion (2%)
  12. Russia: $48 billion (1.9%)
  13. Australia: $47.5 billion (1.9%)
  14. Malaysia: $45.8 billion (1.8%)
  15. Mexico: $44.1 billion (1.8%)


China has nuclear weapons that could destroy their primary source of income .
Best Idea!!!
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,685
7,975
136
Keep in mind that a lot of these exports to nation A are do to Nation A using those imports to create goods for the United States
Uh, what? I don't like to pick on spelling or grammar, but I can't make sense of this.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Because one of them thinks Asia isn't for Asians, it's for China.

Trade helps tamp down domestic support for hawks, it's true, but I'm not entirely convinced it will in this case. China has a pathological inability to tolerate losing face, and 'standing up to the West' is how that is manifested. China has expansionist ambitions and a fixation where a country's size is the determining factor in a country's place in the world, to hell with international law and norms (see 9 Dash line ruling).

We want to do business. China wants territory, power, prestige, a new world order. I'd be more inclined to dismiss their talk of sinking American carriers/invading Taiwan if they weren't acquiring the means to do at such a pace. The bellicose behavior to neighbors and frothy toxic nationalism Beijing stokes doesn't help.

I hope I'm wrong.

China is not going to attack it's neighbors like Japan or Korea, and, I really doubt, even Taiwan. What it's trying to do is what every emerging power tries to do, (and what it did in other periods when it held regional power) expand it's sphere of power/control/interest in the area of the world that it happens to exist in. For example, like the what that the US has done in/with Latin America. I'm sure you've heard of the, so called, Monroe Doctrine?

You want to look for an area of the world for (relatively) major state confrontation look to India and Pakistan or the Saudis and Iranians.

The really big boys would hurt themselves too much participating in any kind of major nation state confrontation.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
First step, attack trade relations. Reason? Trump....

And how many billions in trade is still happening? And it will continue to happen because the two countries are too dependent on each other. If someone like Trump goes too far American business interests will rein him in rather quickly.
 

mistercrabby

Senior member
Mar 9, 2013
963
53
91
Not sure how many people watched the Chinese military parade but they showed off some insanely powerful weaponry. Here's the video:

The one that caught my eye is the DF-41 ICBM - a hypersonic (Mach 10) ICBM with 10 nuclear warheads that can strike 10 independent targets simultaneously (MIRV) with a range of 9300 miles (15,000 km) - i.e. it can strike any city in the US!

Do you guys think the US and China will go to war?

If so, who do you think will win (poll)?

Fake news. The real commie kind. No body does it better.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,687
1,222
136
China wins, there are a bunch of factors(not all covered) but;
-> Newer cheap tech will always overcome expensive future-grade tech. It is easier to copy and improve, than to start from scratch and improve.
-> China has a conscription-based military with a large population.
-> China's Military-complex can probably handle psychological want for war/service better than America's Military-complex.

Any gaps of technological improvement for USA is a gap for which China definitely wins.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
Uh, what? I don't like to pick on spelling or grammar, but I can't make sense of this.

After re-reading....I can't make it out either. Probably some nonsense about supply chain bs
However, due to forum rules I can't make fun of the person who wrote the post we both are confused about
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,385
3,116
146
China wins, there are a bunch of factors(not all covered) but;
-> Newer cheap tech will always overcome expensive future-grade tech. It is easier to copy and improve, than to start from scratch and improve.
-> China has a conscription-based military with a large population.
-> China's Military-complex can probably handle psychological want for war/service better than America's Military-complex.

Any gaps of technological improvement for USA is a gap for which China definitely wins.

Absurd. There are scenarios in which China gets stomped decisively. Basically any one where they're on the offensive.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,346
12,953
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Since both sides have nukes - does it really matter? Unless someone gets a new weapon that has a 99.9% chance of blocking any and all nukes war will never happen.
I think that is wrong... They will keep edging at eachother, and both sides will hold back on the nukes ... cause mutal assured destruction... I gather we can have full onset direct conflict without airborne nukes.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,687
1,222
136
Absurd. There are scenarios in which China gets stomped decisively. Basically any one where they're on the offensive.
No other country is going to support a counter-offensive on American soil. China wins 100% of the time. America has no allies, only frenemies. If America is attacked, it will only be America vs attacking country. China's larger amount of troops can support a better invasive doctrine, than America's for China. There is also the China Coalition potential, where China doesn't attack alone, but US defends alone.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
95,423
15,361
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No other country is going to support a counter-offensive on American soil. China wins 100% of the time. America has no allies, only frenemies. If America is attacked, it will only be America vs attacking country. China's larger amount of troops can support a better invasive doctrine, than America's for China.


Ahhahaa, they don't have capability to invade Taiwan and you think they can invade CONUS?
 
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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,687
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Ahhahaa, they don't have capability to invade Taiwan and you think they can invade CONUS?
Why do they need to invade Taiwan right now? Long game is by 2033/2049 or something, before they will force re-unification.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,385
3,116
146
No other country is going to support a counter-offensive on American soil. China wins 100% of the time. America has no allies, only frenemies. If America is attacked, it will only be America vs attacking country. China's larger amount of troops can support a better invasive doctrine, than America's for China. There is also the China Coalition potential, where China doesn't attack alone, but US defends alone.

Either you need to consume more prescribed substances or less illicit ones.

China doesn’t even have a blue water navy.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,431
28,888
136
No other country is going to support a counter-offensive on American soil. China wins 100% of the time. America has no allies, only frenemies. If America is attacked, it will only be America vs attacking country. China's larger amount of troops can support a better invasive doctrine, than America's for China. There is also the China Coalition potential, where China doesn't attack alone, but US defends alone.
Yup, it would be very useful.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,685
7,975
136
I think that is wrong... They will keep edging at each other, and both sides will hold back on the nukes ... cause mutual assured destruction... I gather we can have full onset direct conflict without airborne nukes.

Well, from war games run, I don't know, 20 years ago, army commanders moved quickly to use tactical nuclear weapons when faced with any overwhelming opposition. It's hard to see that stop that escalating unless one side decides to sue for peace. The Chinese military is, for the most part, under trained, under equipped and has terrible morale issues (even before the bullets start flying), BUT, they do have allot of bodies to toss at an enemy.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,385
3,116
146
Well, from war games run, I don't know, 20 years ago, army commanders moved quickly to use tactical nuclear weapons when faced with any overwhelming opposition. It's hard to see that stop that escalating unless one side decides to sue for peace. The Chinese military is, for the most part, under trained, under equipped and has terrible morale issues (even before the bullets start flying), BUT, they do have allot of bodies to toss at an enemy.

The bodies only come into play during a land invasion of China which is lunacy.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,346
12,953
136
Suppose you were to defend Hong Kong from getting rolled over .. How would you do that?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,655
29,322
146
It's a military parade. Preferred dick lengthen-er of countries that lack serious capability. Nothing China has shown is game changing or scary.

The US blows away China interns of training, capability and experience. On top of actual combat hours and all the lessons learned from that, from a pure training perspective where we not only put the time in to train, we train with countries all over the world.
We've been engaged in continuous military operations longer than many posters on this forum have been alive.
Everything China has is nothing more than something else we mitigate with training.

No one trains with China except shit nations like Russia where the whole things is basically a political spectacle. The only military operations China has experience in are ....oh wait nothing relevant in modern history. They have mockups in Mongolia where they pretend to train in front of communist party official but that doesn't count.

Is China a threat to Taiwan?
Of course they are because Taiwan is a nobody with minimal capability. Taiwan is also recognized as "china stuff".

China is threat to the Philippines, Vietnam and every tiny nation in the area.

China makes some passable equipment if you can't afford 21st century weaponry (checks year...notices its 2019) AND the continuous training that is required to make the crap usable. ask the Saudi's what it feels like to posses billion so semi-modern equipment that on paper exceeds what the Chinese have and being a crap excuse of a military.
Is it good? Yes if you are not fighting the US.

The biggest issue with the United States is generally picky about war stuff since we are always killing people the simple fact that invading the United States is just about impossible.
We lose interest pretty easily if money or crazy christian values aren't at risk.

If China were to invade Taiwan, the GOP would have a universal orgasm as their end of days fantasy about being close to Jesus would appear to come to fruition.
Once the they discover Jesus did't appear they would go through the normal cost benefit scenario of "how many investments are at risk"

Lets look at something relevant and why this discussion is nothing but masturbation material for people who play too much call of duty.
Keep in mind that a lot of these exports to nation A are do to Nation A using those imports to create goods for the United States
  1. United States: US$479.7 billion (19.2% of total Chinese exports)
  2. Hong Kong: $303 billion (12.1%)
  3. Japan: $147.2 billion (5.9%)
  4. South Korea: $109 billion (4.4%)
  5. Vietnam: $84 billion (3.4%)
  6. Germany: $77.9 billion (3.1%)
  7. India: $76.9 billion (3.1%)
  8. Netherlands: $73.1 billion (2.9%)
  9. United Kingdom: $57 billion (2.3%)
  10. Singapore: $49.8 billion (2%)
  11. Taiwan: $48.7 billion (2%)
  12. Russia: $48 billion (1.9%)
  13. Australia: $47.5 billion (1.9%)
  14. Malaysia: $45.8 billion (1.8%)
  15. Mexico: $44.1 billion (1.8%)


China has nuclear weapons that could destroy their primary source of income .
Best Idea!!!

Well, one informative perspective is that China is essentially where the USA was, in terms of capability: training, experience, hardware, just prior to our entry into WW2. Despite barely being involved in WW1, the US entered WW2 as a bunch of bumbling Gomer Pyles for the first couple of years--the earliest days running through Northern Africa. I think a lot of people forget about those years. (Island hopping in the Pacific probably doesn't expose that lack of training in traditional ground combat.) and by the time of D-Day...essentially the last year of the 7 year war, we were considered highly capable and battle ready. ...all of that, and our current dominance was essentially established by the rest of Europe being burned to ash.

We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!
 
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