China told the US to "Shut Up".

[LegendKiller]

heh, you are a little out dated. China already built oil pipeline from Kazakhstan to China so they can import oil directly from central Asia to China. They don't need a navy to get crude to their doorstep.

It'd be useful to know what the heck you are talking about when calling other people ignorant.

Because all of the oil in Kazakh will be able to get them anywhere close to the per capita GDP of the US. LOL.

 

[dawheat]

That's true, those debt and trade stoppage would hurt China considerably, in normal circumstances.

But if China goes all out against the US, that'd be almost another world war situation, and trade, debt, GDP growth, economy indicator, all goes out the door. The only thing matters is how much manufacturing capability the country and its allies has, and the natural resource controlled. And of course, there is always this nuclear weapon as the last resort.

China could form an alliance with nearby Islamic nations, Pakistan, Iran that are anti-US. They can start conquering near by countries, Korea, Japan, India, Vietnam. US would have hard time defending those allies due to proximity and supply line, and on land war, China could have advantage with sheer number. If they control the Asia continent, ally with Islamic nations and possibly Russia, and hold their position, use the resources including huge amount of oil reserve, utilize their manufacturing capability and know how, it'd be hard for the US and allies to break.

Just saying....

Your above scenario is wishful thinking - China has no ability to invade and occupy Japan, India, or Vietnam - Korea yes, only b/c it's basically next door. They can certainly destroy most of the infrastructure in those countries, but they have no ability to move sizable forces outside of their borders or across water.

And frankly China has little ability to protect it's own infrastructure from US conventional attacks. Oil storage facilities, pipelines, refineries, and energy distribution infrastructure would be high up on any target list. These take a long time to build and are impossible to hide.

It wouldn't take very long for China to experience crippling energy outages and be reduced to mostly a horse and cart situation.

Just saying...

<edit>And lol at thinking Russia will ally itself with an aggressive and imperialistic China. Who does China share a massive border with?

 

[Karl Agathon]

Your above scenario is wishful thinking - China has no ability to invade and occupy Japan, India, or Vietnam - Korea yes, only b/c it's basically next door. They can certainly destroy most of the infrastructure in those countries, but they have no ability to move sizable forces outside of their borders or across water.

And frankly China has little ability to protect it's own infrastructure from US conventional attacks. Oil storage facilities, pipelines, refineries, and energy distribution infrastructure would be high up on any target list. These take a long time to build and are impossible to hide.

It wouldn't take very long for China to experience crippling energy outages and be reduced to mostly a horse and cart situation.

Just saying...

<edit>And lol at thinking Russia will ally itself with an aggressive and imperialistic China. Who does China share a massive border with?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Pretty much summed up with what I was going to reply with. To add, the U.S. has a military presence in and some cases defense treaties with some of those countries. The USN would obliterate the PRC Navy into oblivion. The guy you replied to is doing a serious China circle jerk right now. He is making China out to be some super galactic empire capable of worldwide power projection and who is 100x more powerful then the U.S. Making assumptions about what other countries would do?!?!? lol. and Russia would risk war with U.S over China?!?! LMAO!!!!!!

 

[Svnla]

Heh, considering the US is basically stolen land, this is a dumb point.

Which nation was not born from stolen land? Please name one or two that has no dirty laundry in its history.

 

[Svnla]

That's because it didn't happen in our life time and we still have an embargo on Cuba. We keep quite the watchful eye on them. Sure they aren't direct comparisons as the means and time frame is different, but they are effectively the same thing Svnla. I do agree with you guys though that China is quite over stepping their bounds, I just think all the chest thumping and hater talk from the USA isn't going to make matters better or even set us down the proper path of alleviating the situation. Do you think it will make things better?

Don't get me wrong. Personally, I think the US embargo against Cuba is dumb and not working but everyone knows that D and R parties are both so scared of the American-Cubans in Florida. IIRC, Fidel's brother, Raul, was on the record recently that he was willing to talk with the US but no deal.

As I said before, the US is not perfect, heck, which country on Earth is. At least the US did not invade another sovereign country/land/islands from other countries and then claim it as it own based on "historic evidences" of hundreds years ago as China had done with Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Paracel Islands, Spratlys Islands.

 

[rchiu]

Because all of the oil in Kazakh will be able to get them anywhere close to the per capita GDP of the US. LOL.

If Kazakh oil isn't enough, what about Russian oil?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12103865

China not doing anything in International front energy wise? Hardly. While the US is busy attacking and alienating oil producing countries, China is building direct oil pipeline between some of the largest oil producers and China. It is forming a Central Asia Alliance with Russia and other central Asian countries, building gas/oil pipeline, high speed rails between Russia, Central Asia and Eastern Europe. They have a stated national strategy to build a "new silk road" in their western corridor with all these central asian and eastern european.

That's doing nothing in internationals front?

 

[Svnla]

Haha, I see, so the US can get its hand into some business tens of thousands miles of away in the name of national interest. But when Chinese get into something close by, with historical justification, then it's oh no, big bad China.....

See, the big difference is that the US is about to withdraw completely from Iraq and Afghan (or very soon). Do you see any withdram of chinese from Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Paracel Islands, Spratly Islands?

Do you see the US shot at unarmed and poor fishermen from the neighborhood? Then captured, beat up, and demanded ransome money from those poor folks?

Do you see the US or any country on Earth is claiming almost the whole sea? (see the picture from the op above) It is against all international rules and norms (UNCLOS) to do so. Do you see the US pulls a stunt like that against Canada, Mexico, or any smaller nations in the Caribean?

Do you see the US is claiming other countries as its own based on "historic evidences" from hundreds of years ago? Heck, if everyone is doing like that, UK could claim the US, Italy could claim almost the whole Europe, Iran could claim the whold Middle East and so on.

Or Japan and UK could claim parts of china, Mongolia could claim the whole china, Vietnam could claim southern china if we want to use the "historical justification" as you said.

 

[rchiu]

See, the big difference is that the US is about to withdraw completely from Iraq and Afghan (or very soon). Do you see any withdram of chinese from Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Paracel Islands, Spratly Islands?

Do you see the US shot at unarmed and poor fishermen from the neighborhood? Then captured, beat up, and demanded ransome money from those poor folks?

Do you see the US is claiming other countries as its own based on "historic evidences" from hundreds of years ago? Heck, if everyone is doing like that, UK could claim the US, Italy could claim almost the whole Europe, Iran could claim the whold Middle East and so on.

Or Japan and UK could claim parts of china, Mongolia could claim the whole china, Vietnam could claim southern china if we want to use the "historical justification" as you said.

You are comparing US occupation of Iraq and Afghan, two completely independent, sovereign nations to Chinese rule in Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia...etc? Seriously?

And no, it's not based on history from hundred years ago. China has never relinquish rules over those places, not since Qing Dynasty, not since KMT rules, not since communist Chinese rules.

Dude, get your historical facts straight and learn to make apple to apple comparison.

 

[Svnla]

You are comparing US occupation of Iraq and Afghan, two completely independent, sovereign nations to Chinese rule in Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia...etc? Seriously?

And no, it's not based on history from hundred years ago. China has never relinquish rules over those places, not since Qing Dynasty, not since KMT rules, not since communist Chinese rules.

Dude, get your historical facts straight and learn to make apple to apple comparison.

Dude, it is you that need to study history.

If china is so right about Paracel and Spartly Islands, then why it would not dare to bring the matter to the World Court as smaller neighbors asked repeatly several times?

Since Vietnam was a part of china for almost one thousands years, why china would not dare to take it back as before? Oh, they did try and try many times and the latest in 1979 and tens of thousands chinese soldiers lay dead at the border as the result.

All we have from china is some maps that could be faked easily. If china feels so strong about its sovereign, why not dare to take on Russia? You know about Russia that killed scores of chinese and took huge swap of land (231,660 sq miles) at the Amur River from china (Quing Dynasty), right? Right? Look up "Treaty of Aigun 1858" and see for yourself. I did not hear china or chinese dare to say a word about "historical justification" or "undisputed sovereign" about that matter whatsoever. Wonder why.

So strong and tough against smaller neighbors but so cowardice against big and strong adversaries. I do not remember smaller neighbors such as Vietnam or Phillipines attacked china and took those islands from chinese. Oh, please do give us some well know neutral sources about china controlling (such as chinese people living there since the Quing Dynasty) of Paracel and Spratly Islands.

 

[rchiu]

Dude, it is you that need to study history.

If china is so right about Paracel and Spartly Islands, then why it would not dare to bring the matter to the World Court as smaller neighbors asked repeatly several times?

Since Vietnam was a part of china for almost one thousands years, why china would not dare to take it back as before? Oh, they did in 1979 and tens of thousands chinese soldiers lay dead at the border as the result.

All we have from china is some maps that could be faked easily. If china feels so strong about its sovereign, why not dare to take on Russia? You know about Russia that killed scores of chinese and took huge swap of land (231,660 sq miles) at the Amur River from china (Quing Dynasty), right? Right? Look up "Treaty of Aigun 1858" and see for yourself. I did not hear china or chinese dare to say a word about "historical justification" or "undisputed sovereign" about that matter whatsoever. Wonder why.

So strong and tough against smaller neighbors but so cowardice against big and strong adversaries. I do not remember smaller neighbors such as Vietnam or Phillipines attacked china and took those islands from chinese. Oh, please do give us some well know neutral sources about china controlling (as chinese people living there since the Quing Dynasty) of Paracel and Spratly Islands.

Yeah that's right. China RELINQUISHED those land to Russia with Treaty of Aigun and convention of Peking. There was a formal establishment of rule and agreement on two sides. It's like every other establishment of state and sovereignty, there was armed confrontation, winner takes all, signed a treaty recognized by international community. US got that from the Brits during the independence too. It's pretty standard procedure.

So tell me, who has that claim on Spartly Island? After Japanese occupation during ww2, there has never been clear establishment of who owns that place. Both China and Vietnam put border marker on those island. They all has legit claim in my book.

Either way, the point is what does America has anything to do with this dispute?

 

[Svnla]

Yeah that's right. China RELINQUISHED those land to Russia with Treaty of Aigun and convention of Peking. There was a formal establishment of rule and agreement on two sides. It's like every other establishment of state and sovereignty, there was armed confrontation, winner takes all, signed a treaty recognized by international community. US got that from the Brits during the independence too. It's pretty standard procedure.

So tell me, who has that claim on Spartly Island? After Japanese occupation during ww2, there has never been clear establishment of who owns that place. Both China and Vietnam put border marker on those island. They all has legit claim in my book.

Either way, the point is what does America has anything to do with this dispute?

Smaller neighbors such as Vietnam and Phillpines NEVER claim the whole sea as china is doing (again, see the map in the op of this thread and see how ridiculous china claim of the whole sea is). So far, china is the ONLY one that attacked smaller neighbors at Paracel and Spartly Islands. No one else is behaving that way but china. Google "Paracel Islands battle 1974" and "Spartly Islands battle 1988" and see for yourself who is the true aggressor. Vietnam never signed anything to give up Paracel Islands to china.

Everyone (except china) is happy with the UNCLOS rule of 200 miles from the coast as EEZ (see the blue lines in the op pic). No one else is dumb enough to claim the whole sea. I don't think any countries on Earth are behaving that way, not even Iran, N. Korea.

Why the US is getting involve in this? See my previous post in this thread about the amount of commercial shipping and how the US allies such as Japan, S. Korea, Taiwain depend greatly from the South of china Sea for their economies. If the world is letting china takes the whole sea this time, who will stop china when it demands all ships have to pay tax to go throught?

 

[StinkyPinky]

That claim is ridiculous. They could at least try and be subtle about it. Why not claim the entire south pacific while they're at it.

Traditional US allies like South Korea, Japan, Australia and even NZ are really going to be under Chinese pressure in the future. Already Australia exports a crap load of their rare minerals to China which is fuelling their economic growth. The battle for global ideology in the 21st century will be in the pacific, not the Atlantic.

 

[rchiu]

Smaller neighbors such as Vietnam and Phillpines NEVER claim the whole sea as china is doing (again, see the map in the op of this thread and see how ridiculous china claim of the whole sea is). So far, china is the ONLY one that attacked smaller neighbors at Paracel and Spartly Islands. No one else is behaving that way but china. Google "Paracel Islands battle 1974" and "Spartly Islands battle 1988" and see for yourself who is the true aggressor.

Everyone (except china) is happy with the UNCLOS rule of 200 miles from the coast as EEZ (see the blue lines in the op pic). No one else is dumb enough to claim the whole sea. I don't think any countries on Earth are behaving that way, not even Iran, N. Korea.

Why the US is getting involve in this? See my previous post in this thread about the amount of commercial shipping and how the US allies such as Japan, S. Korea, Taiwain depend greatly from the South of china Sea for their economies. If the world is letting china takes the whole sea this time, who will stop china when it demands all ships have to pay tax to go throught?

Not the map again....go read the following thread that clearly explain to you the media BS behind the map. China made it clear they owned the sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters. BBC made the map based on that claim. China did not claimed the sovereignty over the entire south sea and use that as the basis for Spartly/Parcel Island claim. You need to understand what is the cause and the result in this media BS.

http://southseaconversations.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/china-claimsthe-whole-south-china-sea/

So we established that these are disputed areas. So what do you mean by "attack" their neighbors? They (both Chinese side and Vietnamese side) see other side plant a flag on their supposed territory, they send war ship, battle happens. Vietnam is as guilty as Chinese in establishing their navel force on these Island and of course there will be conflict when both are trying to exert influence. Your one sided blame on China, is shall we say a bit biased?

 

[Svnla]

Not the map again....go read the following thread that clearly explain to you the media BS behind the map. China made it clear they owned the sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters. BBC made the map based on that claim. China did not claimed the sovereignty over the entire south sea and use that as the basis for Spartly/Parcel Island claim. You need to understand what is the cause and the result in this media BS.

http://southseaconversations.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/china-claimsthe-whole-south-china-sea/

So we established that these are disputed areas. So what do you mean by "attack" their neighbors? They (both Chinese side and Vietnamese side) see other side plant a flag on their supposed territory, they send war ship, battle happens. Vietnam is as guilty as Chinese in establishing their navel force on these Island and of course there will be conflict when both are trying to exert influence. Your one sided blame on China, is shall we say a bit biased?

Attack smaller neighbors, biased you said? = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands (sneaky atack by china when Vietnam was in the middle of the civil war between North and South)

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Island_Skirmish_(1988) (china warships shot at Vietnam unarmed transport ship)

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischief_Reef ( china bullied Philippines and took Mischief Reef)


Again, who is the aggressor, who attacked who? Do you want me to give you more links? Note that I did NOT use links from Vietnam or Philippines. Feel free to provide well know neutral sources showing Vietnam/Philippines or any small neighbors attacked china in the South of china Sea. Show me any other countries in that area is behaving like china (attacking and taking islands from other nations).

From china website, the oil fields china is trying to explore is well within Vietnam 200 miles EEZ, against all international rules/norms of UNCLOS = http://en.cnooc.com.cn/data/upload/month_201206/blocke_u8aJay.jpg

How does china feel if Russia gets some oilfields deep inside 200 miles of EEZ of china just because they say they have sovereign there?


Now your turn to provide well know neutral links to support your case. LOL x 10000000 by your statement of "China made it clear they owned the sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters" Really? Is this 21st century or are we in the Midle Kingdom of 200 AD? ROTFLMAO. Who the hell gives china the sovereign? Chairman Mao? LOL.

I asked before but you did not answer so I will ask again. Show me well know neutral sources showing china/chinese has been living in those islands since way back when. I asked the same questions in another forum to other chinese posters and so far, not a single one could give me answer.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

here we go. anti-China sentiments on the rise. this is sickening.

the point is this is China's sphere of influence. don't act like the US doesn't do this. the Americas are OUR sphere of influence. What happened when other countries tried to get close with other nations in the Americas? You think the US wouldn't tell China to shut up if it were the other way around? Hypocrites.

I'm not a fan of China, but I feel like this board is overly harsh. Furthermore, it's quite obvious people view China as some horrible 3rd world country. Heck, I tend to think we view them far worse than say Pakistan or Afghanistan on this board.

 

[rchiu]

Attack smaller neighbors, biased you said? = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands (sneaky atack by china when Vietnam was in the middle of the civil war between North and South)

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Island_Skirmish_(1988) (china warships shot at Vietnam unarmed transport ship)

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischief_Reef


Again, who is the aggressor, who attacked who? Do you want me to give you more links? Note that I did NOT use links from Vietnam or Philippines. Feel free to provide well know neutral sources showing Vietnam/Philippines attacked china.

From china website, the oil fields china is trying to explore is well within Vietnam 200 miles EEZ, against all international rules/norms of UNCLOS = http://en.cnooc.com.cn/data/upload/month_201206/blocke_u8aJay.jpg

How does china feel if Russia gets some oilfields deep inside 200 miles of EEZ of china just because they say they have sovereign there?


Now your turn to provide well know neutral links to support your case. LOL x 10000000 by your statement of "China made it clear they owned the sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters" Really? Is this 21st century or are we in the Midle Kingdom of 200 AD? ROTFLMAO. Who the hell gives china the sovereign? Chairman Mao? LOL.

I asked before but you did not answer so I will ask again. Show me well know neutral sources showing china/chinese has been living in those islands since way back when. I asked the same questions in another forum to other chinese posters and so far, not a single one could give me answer.

Let's not talk about way back when, what about as of today? Taiping Island, the largest of Spratly Islands has been secured by Chinese since 1946, put under administration of Guangdong province. Since the Chinese KMT retreated to Taiwan, Taiwan has stationed marine on that island. Even as we speak today. Neutral wiki link as you request below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Island

 

[Svnla]

Let's not talk about way back when, what about as of today? Taiping Island, the largest of Spratly Islands has been secured by Chinese since 1946, put under administration of Guangdong province. Since the Chinese KMT retreated to Taiwan, Taiwan has stationed marine on that island. Even as we speak today. Neutral wiki link as you request below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Island

I don't remember about any stories of Taiwan shooting/attacking at anyone ever in the South of china Sea. Taiwan did not capture, beat up, then demand ransom money from poor and unarmed fishermen. Taiwan did not try to get oilfields deep inside the 200 miles of EEZ of other nations in the area. Taiwan did not try to take Scarborough Shoal from Philippines as china has been trying.


Did you see the link directly from chinese website showing china blatantly violating Vietnam 200 miles of EEZ that I posted above? BTW, this thread is about red commie china, not about Taiwan.

Smaller neighbors such as Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, etc. never had any problems with Taiwan.

Again, you still HAVE NOT give me anything about anyone attacked and took islands from china in the South of china Sea. So far, I have provided links showing china WAS/IS THE ONLY one that behave aggressively.

Still no links showing chinese have been living on those "disputed" islands since way back when? Undisputed sovereign indeed

 

[rchiu]

I don't remember about any stories of Taiwain shooting/attacking at anyone ever in the South of china Sea. Taiwain did not capture, beat up, then demand ransom money from poor and unarmed fishermen. Taiwain did not try to get oilfields deep inside the 200 miles of EEZ of other nations in the area. Did you see the link directly from chinese website showing china blatantly violating Vietnam 200 miles of EEZ that I posted above? BTW, this thread is about red commie china, not about Taiwain.

Smaller neighbors such as Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, etc. never had any problems with Taiwain.

Again, you still HAVE NOT give me anything about anyone attacked and took islands from china. So far, I have provided links showing china WAS THE ONLY one that behave aggressively.

Still no links showing chinese have been living on those islands since way back when?

Do I have to spell out every historical event to you? Chinese claimed Taiping/Spartly in 1940's under KMT. Communist took over China during late 40's early 50's and kicked KMT to Taiwan, they are the recognized ruler of China, they think they own Taiwan and everything Taiwan owns. Is their claim justified? I don't know, international communities, including the US, is too chicken shit to stick out for Taiwan, so I guess in a sense the international community is agreeing to Chinese claim. If you recognize Taiwan's claim on Taiping, then might as well recognize Chinese claim because international community is giving a pass to Chinese claim on Taiwan.

Now go back to your own link on the conflict. Read your own article. So Vietnam deploying their navy is defending their territory and China deploying their navy that's being aggressive? Remember this is a disputed territory?

 

[Svnla]

Do I have to spell out every historical event to you? Chinese claimed Taiping/Spartly in 1940's under KMT. Communist took over China during late 40's early 50's and kicked KMT to Taiwan, they are the recognized ruler of China, they think they own Taiwan and everything Taiwan owns. Is their claim justified? I don't know, international communities, including the US, is too chicken shit to stick out for Taiwan, so I guess in a sense the international community is agreeing to Chinese claim. If you recognize Taiwan's claim on Taiping, then might as well recognize Chinese claim because international community is giving a pass to Chinese claim on Taiwan.

Now go back to your own link on the conflict. Read your own article. So Vietnam deploying their navy is defending their territory and China deploying their navy that's being aggressive? Remember this is a disputed territory?

Again, this thread is about red commie china and smaller neighbors in the area, not about Taiwan. Disputes between china and Taiwan need to be in another separate thread.

Again, from wiki links, it was china that attacked Vietnam at Paracel Islands in 1974 at the area under Vietnam control. Vietnam did not send its navy into the china area. Do you see the BIG different and stop trying to spin? Same thing at Spartly Islands against Vietnam and Philippines. Other nations did not send their military forces onto china area but china was the one that did that and then swallowed other nations islands/atols.

Did you see any countries in the area sent their ships deep inside china 200 miles of EEZ as china has been doing?

Again, still no link whatsoever showing other nations attacked china in the South of china Sea?

 

[rchiu]

Again, this thread is about red commie china and smaller neighbors in the area, not about Taiwan. Disputes between china and Taiwan need to be in another separate thread.

Again, from wiki links, it was china that attacked Vietnam at Paracel Islands in 1974 at the area under Vietnam control. Vietnam did not send its navy into the china area. Do you see the BIG different and stop trying to spin? Same thing at Spartly Islands against Vietnam and Philippines. Other nations did not send their military forces onto china area but china was the one that did that and then swallowed other nations islands/atols.

Did you see any countries in the area sent their ships deep inside china 200 miles of EEZ as china has been doing?

Again, still no link whatsoever showing other nations attacked china in the South of china Sea?

I don't know where you get your quote from wiki, but this is the quote from: Battle of the Paracel Islands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands

Prelude

On January 16, 1974, Frigate Lý Th&#432;&#7901;ng Ki&#7879;t (HQ-16) witnessed a small band of Chinese militia on one of the islands called Robert Island. The militia set up a flag and stelae representing the Chinese sovereignty over the Paracels; they were supported by Chinese warships (#389, #396) and minesweepers (#402, #407). HQ-16 signaled the Chinese squadron to withdraw, but received the same orders in return. Overnight the two forces remained shadowing each other but did not engage.[citation needed]
On January 17, some 30 Vietnamese commandos waded ashore to Robert Island and removed the Chinese flag unopposed. Later on reinforcements from both sides arrived: the frigate Tr&#7847;n Khánh D&#432; (HQ-4) joined the HQ-16; while two PLAN corvettes (#274 and #271) joined the Chinese.[citation needed]
On January 18, frigate Tr&#7847;n Bình Tr&#7885;ng (HQ-5) arrived at the scene carrying the commander of the South Vietnamese fleet, Colonel Hà V&#259;n Ng&#7841;c. The corvette Nh&#7853;t T&#7843;o (HQ-10) also took its place, moving in cautiously because she had only one functioning engine at the time.[citation needed]

Military engagement
In the early morning of January 19, 1974, Vietnamese troops from the HQ-5 landed on Duncan Island and came under fire from Chinese troops after opening fire first on the Chinese while advancing toward the shores.

Yeah, a clear matter of Chinese invading Vietnam territory.....

 

[Svnla]

I don't know where you get your quote from wiki, but this is the quote from: Battle of the Paracel Islands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands

Prelude

On January 16, 1974, Frigate Lý Th&#432;&#7901;ng Ki&#7879;t (HQ-16) witnessed a small band of Chinese militia on one of the islands called Robert Island. The militia set up a flag and stelae representing the Chinese sovereignty over the Paracels; they were supported by Chinese warships (#389, #396) and minesweepers (#402, #407). HQ-16 signaled the Chinese squadron to withdraw, but received the same orders in return. Overnight the two forces remained shadowing each other but did not engage.[citation needed]
On January 17, some 30 Vietnamese commandos waded ashore to Robert Island and removed the Chinese flag unopposed. Later on reinforcements from both sides arrived: the frigate Tr&#7847;n Khánh D&#432; (HQ-4) joined the HQ-16; while two PLAN corvettes (#274 and #271) joined the Chinese.[citation needed]
On January 18, frigate Tr&#7847;n Bình Tr&#7885;ng (HQ-5) arrived at the scene carrying the commander of the South Vietnamese fleet, Colonel Hà V&#259;n Ng&#7841;c. The corvette Nh&#7853;t T&#7843;o (HQ-10) also took its place, moving in cautiously because she had only one functioning engine at the time.[citation needed]

Military engagement
In the early morning of January 19, 1974, Vietnamese troops from the HQ-5 landed on Duncan Island and came under fire from Chinese troops after opening fire first on the Chinese while advancing toward the shores.

Yeah, a clear matter of Chinese invading Vietnam territory.....

See the bolded and underlined above? Who started the motion? Funny how you "forgot" to mention this part...(look like some invasion plans were created well in advance.

The next day, Chinese jet fighters and ground-attack aircraft from Hainan bombed the three islands, and were followed up with an amphibious landing force.

Why? Because china knew full well that US did not want to get involve with the South anymore.

South Vietnam requested assistance from the US Seventh Fleet, but the request was rejected

The readers need to read the whole thing and see for themselves who was the aggressor (at Paracel, at Spratly, at Scarborough Shoal). I provided links to support my case that china was/is the aggressor. So far, you have NOT provide anything showing other wise. I am getting tired at this. In order to continue the debate, you need to provide links to support your case. Put up or shut up, very simple.

 

[rchiu]

See the bolded and underlined? Who started the motion? Funny how you "forgot" to mention this part...(look like some invasion plans were created well in advance.


The readers need to read the whole thing and see for themselves who was the aggressor. I provided links to support my case that china was/is the aggressor. So far, you have NOT provide anything showing other wise.

Go back to the same link and read the historical background section and tell me Chinese has absolutely no claim on Paracel Islands. I have given you the link, given you who opened fire first. I established it was a disputed Islands. Vietnam is trying to exert claim, China is trying to exert claim. It was at best a conflict caused by two side engaging in a dispute. Your obvious attempt to blame China for everything is pretty pathetic.

 

[Svnla]

Go back to the same link and read the historical background section and tell me Chinese has absolutely no claim on Paracel Islands. I have given you the link, given you who opened fire first. I established it was a disputed Islands. Vietnam is trying to exert claim, China is trying to exert claim. It was at best a conflict caused by two side engaging in a dispute. Your obvious attempt to blame China for everything is pretty pathetic.

Dude, are you for real? See who started the event? SEE IT?

I provided seveal links showing china aggressive behavior toward smaller neighbors AT SEVERAL LOCATIONS (Paracel, Spratly, Mischief Reef, Scarborough Shoal) in DIFFERENT years (1974, 1988, 1994, present time of 2012). Let the readers see for themselves who was the aggressor. How many links you provided showing other nations were the aggressors? NONE, NADA, ZIP.

Here is another example of china aggressive behavior = http://thediplomat.com/asean-beat/2011/06/09/chinas-u-shaped-claims/

Another one of china aggressive behavior = http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=37902

Do you want/need more? I will be more than glad to provide more links showing the true aggressive behavior of china toward its smaller neighbors.

I also provided link (directly from chinese site) showing china blatantly violated Vietnam's 200 miles EEZ. Can you show a link or two about other countries doing the same thing to china? Can you?

Now you need to provide links to support your case or showing other wise (that china was NOT the aggressor and/or other nations were). Stop trying to spin.

Now your move, links or STFU, really.

 

[rchiu]

Dude, are you for real? See who started the event? SEE IT?

I provided seveal links showing china aggressive behavior toward smaller neighbors AT SEVERAL LOCATIONS (Paracel, Spratly, Mischief Reef, Scarborough Shoal) in DIFFERENT years (1974, 1988, 1994, present time). Let the readers see for themselves who was the aggressor. How many links you provided showing other nations were the aggressors? NONE, NADA, ZIP.

Here is another example of china aggressive behavior = http://thediplomat.com/asean-beat/2011/06/09/chinas-u-shaped-claims/

I also provided link (directly from chinese site) showing china blatantly violated Vietnam's 200 miles EEZ. Can you show a link or two about other countries doing the same thing to china? Can you?

Now you need to provide links to support your case or showing other wise (that china was NOT the aggressor). Stop trying to spin.

hmmm...let's see, Paracel Islands, disputed, Spratly, disputed, Mischief Reef, check, Scarborough, check again. Do you know what disputed area means? Conflict in disputed areas? no shit, that doesn't mean China is invading anybody. They are at best trying to exert claim like everyone else in those disputed area.

Go read up on how Japanese claimed those places and how it was renounced and passed over back to China after they surrendered. And oh, how Vietnam agreed to Chinese claim in 1958. Am I saying Chinese claim is absolutely right? No. I am saying they have a claim, just like Vietnam. Something they need to figure out. But before something is put on paper, shit is gonna happen, conflict is gonna happen. But only an idiotic, completely biased guy is gonna ignore the part about current dispute and pretend China is the only actor in this dispute.

 

[iGas]

Haha, I see, so the US can get its hand into some business tens of thousands miles of away in the name of national interest. But when Chinese get into something close by, with historical justification, then it's oh no, big bad China.....

Perhaps you have been brainwashed by the beloved late Chairman Mao.

Did you looked at the link above? The Chinese Qing Dynasty map show no Spratlys or Paracel claim.