"China thinks it can defeat America in battle"

[zinfamous]

If we were to wage war as war should be waged... Instead we are locked into complex rules of engagement and political handicapping from the white house on down.

One can argue that if we went into war and waged it as we did WWII that yes, we'd be getting something fucking accomplished.

war doesn't and can't happen like that any more.

Too much press, too much reality of war reaching everyone, all the time.

Vietnam forever changed how war is orchestrated.

IF the press were involved in WW2 as it was in Vietnam, I imagine our memory about that engagement would be very different.

 

[BUnit1701]

You own a truck or car? Bought food lately? Bought clothes?

Where do you think your replacement car parts came from?

The trucks that shipped your food and clothes, where did the parts come from that kept those trucks running?

Spark plugs, brake pads, wheel bearings, axles, motor parts, tools,,, all made in china.

If you want to bring a nation to its knees, all you have to do is take out one key component such as wheel bearings.

No wheel bearings, no new cars or trucks.

No spark plugs, no new cars or trucks.

No starters, alternators,,,,,, nothing. Just last weekend I had to replace an alternator on my toyota truck.

Not only would our economy grind to a halt, but also our ability to produce cars and trucks, and our ability to maintain our current fleet.

You going to honestly sit there and pretend there is not a single manufacturer of wheel bearings outside of China?

http://www.americanbearings.org/?page=memberlisting

That isn't even looking into Europe or South America. Pull your head out, its not as scary as you want to believe.

 

[smackababy]

war doesn't and can't happen like that any more.

Too much press, too much reality of war reaching everyone, all the time.

Vietnam forever changed how war is orchestrated.

IF the press were involved in WW2 as it was in Vietnam, I imagine our memory about that engagement would be very different.

I don't know. If the public knew of the atrocities uncovered as they were happening, we wouldn't have been nearly as war wearing. Plus, Hitler was spreading his borders and Japan attacked the US. Vietnam was a situation where we were trying to establish a government we liked and not really fighting for anyone except South Vietnam. And, the American people were absolutely sickening to soldiers returning. They didn't choose to go to war. There was a draft. You spit on a person whose only "crime" was being an 18 year old male when some politicians decided to go to war and force him along? Pathetic.

American can rally behind a real cause that isn't "well, their government is bad". A war against China would have to have direct threat to the US. People would support it.

 

[BUnit1701]

Lol at all these forum heroes. When was the last time the US really won a war?

I see a bunch of war mongering assholes. There are no winners in a war of that magnitude, we will bankrupt ourselves and end up with many more injured Vets that will get no help from the VA.

But the Repubs don't care about that, do they? After all, their bullshit wars have been creating casualties since the 1960s.

So, its better to just roll over and let China conquer Asia if they decide they want to?

 

[BUnit1701]

I think it was on TED there was a discussion about that very topic. No nation can defeat the united states.

The drawback to that is a nation wishing to fight the US may resort to a nuclear strike, or several strikes, then negotiate a peace treaty.

Strike a few cities like LA, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, New York,,,, with nukes, then throw up their hands, say they surrender, now go enjoy your fallout.

And you honestly believe we would just say 'Oh, OK'? At least equal nuclear retaliation, and full occupation of the aggressor nation for starters. And its very likely if you take out all those liberal meccas, all that is left are the deep red types who would prefer to turn the aggressor nation into a glass parking lot.

 

[smackababy]

And you honestly believe we would just say 'Oh, OK'? At least equal nuclear retaliation, and full occupation of the aggressor nation for starters. And its very likely if you take out all those liberal meccas, all that is left are the deep red types who would prefer to turn the aggressor nation into a glass parking lot.

Ha! There is a theory. Large metropolitan areas are safe because if an enemy eliminated the large concentrations of liberals, all the 'reds' would scream for nuclear war.

 

[BUnit1701]

An intelligent opponent would not mail us a nuke with a return address. We'd have no idea where it came from or who to respond against.

There are only so many places to get the refined radioactive materials needed to make a nuke. Each of those refineries produces a unique blend which leaves a signature. Every nuke has a 'return address'

 

[theeedude]

Which is more likely, the entire Chinese military establishment forgot about US nuclear submarines, or a juvenile blogger doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[realibrad]

Which is more likely, the entire Chinese military establishment forgot about US nuclear submarines, or a juvenile blogger doesn't know what he's talking about?

Hey, maybe the blogger thought we had nuclear sandwiches?

 

[nehalem256]

Which is more likely, the entire Chinese military establishment forgot about US nuclear submarines, or a juvenile blogger doesn't know what he's talking about?

Well a certain US Supreme Court Justice wrote a dissent that was predicated on Chinese people not existing...

 

[Dannar26]

Ha! There is a theory. Large metropolitan areas are safe because if an enemy eliminated the large concentrations of liberals, all the 'reds' would scream for nuclear war.

::sneaky::

 

[kage69]

My point was we cannot carry them as we do not have any to carry. They could also carry Alien Disintegration Rayguns, but wait we don't have those either.

The Mark 45 Nuclear Torpedo was as nearly as much a danger to the firing submarine as it was to the target. Like a nuclear hand grenade. Destroys everything in a mile radius, but you can only throw it 50 yards. That is the primary reason to get rid of them.

We do not need "minaturized warheads" for a torpedo. Do you know how big a submarine torpedo is? I'll tell you 21 inches in diameter and the Mk 48 for example is 19 feet long. The warhead itself is about 3-4 feet of that length.

I'm sure we have No need of a nuclear torpedo. The 600 pounds of HBX3 explosive in a mark 48 ADCAP torpedo is adequate to sink most targets.

I was a Submarine Torpedoman ( E6 ) for a while during my 20 years.

Well said sailor, thank you for your service. I'm curious, what kind of torpedo would you guys have primed if you were tailing a Typhoon? Would all that titanium make any difference?

 

[werepossum]

My point was we cannot carry them as we do not have any to carry. They could also carry Alien Disintegration Rayguns, but wait we don't have those either.

The Mark 45 Nuclear Torpedo was as nearly as much a danger to the firing submarine as it was to the target. Like a nuclear hand grenade. Destroys everything in a mile radius, but you can only throw it 50 yards. That is the primary reason to get rid of them.

We do not need "minaturized warheads" for a torpedo. Do you know how big a submarine torpedo is? I'll tell you 21 inches in diameter and the Mk 48 for example is 19 feet long. The warhead itself is about 3-4 feet of that length.

I'm sure we have No need of a nuclear torpedo. The 600 pounds of HBX3 explosive in a mark 48 ADCAP torpedo is adequate to sink most targets.

I was a Submarine Torpedoman ( E6 ) for a while during my 20 years.

Wait - are you saying Obama got rid of our Alien Disintegration Rayguns? Damn that Muslim Kenyan bastard!

I mean, um, thank you for your service. Must be hard to walk with the balls required to service and fire nuclear torpedoes.

war doesn't and can't happen like that any more.

Too much press, too much reality of war reaching everyone, all the time.

Vietnam forever changed how war is orchestrated.

IF the press were involved in WW2 as it was in Vietnam, I imagine our memory about that engagement would be very different.

That's the core thing here, I think. Two nations the power of America and Red China are not going to war in the twenty-first century unless they blunder into it through gross incompetence. Which is a great thing; morally war should be confined to works of fiction (especially video games) and if we can't reach that, at least we have eliminated it between the really big players. For now anyway.

As far as the press, it isn't the involvement so much as the press that has changed. Remember Earnie Pyle? He landed at Normandy the morning of June 7, D+1. He had been scheduled on D-Day itself until the brass got cold feet at the last minute, but a dozen or so other Allied journalists (evidently judged more expendable than Pyle) did go ashore on D-Day with the second or third waves, and hundreds (many of whom had willingly cooperated in the Allied deception plans in Scotland and England) covered the invasion from the ships involved. Used to be that a nation's press was on its side. Nowadays America is lucky if our journalists are merely neutral.

 

[Paratus]

I'm not worried

 

[Zebo]

Come on, let's be honest -- political considerations trumped military considerations, which is why we didn't "win" some of the wars you mention. No one on earth will tell you we didn't win every single battle handily in every one of those wars with the exception of the initial Chinese counteroffensive and subsequent battles in Korea, for which MacArthur should've been canned since he was warned it was coming.

If it comes to all-out war, no one is beating the US and her allies.

Aye problem is do you want to be next Hitler world gangs up on? He didnt win either.

Sure we could have won all those wars past and present like we did WW2 with same methodologies.

1. Rounded up all American potential enemies no habeus corpus into interment camps.
2. Leveled whole cities so they get message - all will die or unconditionally surrender.
3. Banned their Nazism or other isms and issued Shinto Directive in japan separating Church and state. Rewrote all their books.
4. Wrote both thier constitutions.
5. Still have troops there 70 years later.

However post ww2 we wrote the Genevas that prevent all that.


I understand well we can win but monsters we have to become to do so are not worth it.

This is main reason I'm antiwar and anti military industrial complex. We will lose fighting with new age warfare or we become monsters. With China everyone loses. Doesn't take many nukes to annihilate mankind. A small regional war will do it.

 

[Zaap]

IF the press were involved in WW2 as it was in Vietnam, I imagine our memory about that engagement would be very different.

Yeah, namely the 1000 year Reich would probably still be going.

"Oh no! War is messy and people die! Let's give up!"

And before people knee-jerk; people in the US were pretty much ready to quit long before the war was won. The sentiment that it wasn't our fight was popular right up to 1945. (The GP didnt know diddly about the hollocaust and other horrors at any time during the war in Europe). Seeing the full horror of troops dieing on a live televised medium could easily have pushed public sentiment into just giving up, stopping war bond support, and insisting on troop withdrawl before hitting mainland Europe.

Kind of a sad paradox in a way.

Knowing first hand that war is horrible via increased media coverage is a good thing on the face of it... but the civilized nations of the world never again being able to band together and go the distance fighting off an out of control aggressor that manages to rise up and go on the warpath is a sad byproduct of it. A regime that's actually intelligent and media savvy, sadly, will probably succeed in using the West's general spinelessness against ourselves to score a big chunk of the globe.

 

[Wreckem]

Plus, a lot of places that built factories in China for cheap labor with little regulation are already looking elsewhere. As China becomes more industrialized and developed, the cost of doing business there is increasing. Vietnam is looking to be the next "best" place to move manufacturing. I sure hope China has a plan for when that happens.

Mexico and Brazil are the new "Chinas" in terms of manufacturing. As chinese wages have risen China has lost its competitive advantage with Mexico and latin America because wages are not much higher and shipping is a fraction of the cost. The hold up on Mexico being the go to place for manufacturing for the North American market is the cartel violence. Even with the violence, there are many companies investing billions in manufacturing facilities. Around 2020 most cars sold in US/Canada will be made in Mexico, and I do not just mean assembled in Mexico.

 

[Zebo]

Well said sailor, thank you for your service. I'm curious, what kind of torpedo would you guys have primed if you were tailing a Typhoon? Would all that titanium make any difference?

Do you own a bunch of Newport news stock? Never understood thanking ppl for "service". What are they doing for you exactly besides sucking up about 30% of your taxes and many would argue create more enemies. If they took saudi and distributed revenues to USA citizens I might agree.

 

[bradley]

Yeah, namely the 1000 year Reich would probably still be going.

"Oh no! War is messy and people die! Let's give up!"
.

Prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks, eighty percent of Americans did not want to enter into any conflict with Japan or Germany. Of course, FDR knew about the attack and hoped the surprise would propel the US into conflict with Japan. And please let's not forget Winston Churchill's significant involvement in preventing Germany from spreading their testicles. Although to compare a mostly just WW2 with a mostly unjust one in Vietnam, and blame it on the media's perception, that's plain silly.

 

[pcgeek11]

21 inch torpedo = 533 mm torpedo. Tube diameter im talking about. I was saying 21 inch torpedo can sure fit one of the stockpiled warheads, if ever desired.

Just read up on the Mk 45. Some sources list the blast radius as greater than the weapon range. Wtf... A suicide weapon for all intents and purposes.

Yes you got me with that metric shit... We do not measure our Torpedos in mm only inches and feet.

Good you now see why we did away with the Mark 45 torpedo. Good riddance.

The procedure was to fire the torpedo, turn 180 degrees and go as deep and as fast as you can away from the blast in hopes that you can ride the shock wave. Maybe you will make it ... maybe you won't.

 

[pcgeek11]

Well said sailor, thank you for your service. I'm curious, what kind of torpedo would you guys have primed if you were tailing a Typhoon? Would all that titanium make any difference?

When I first entered the service we had several choices:

Mk 14 Torpedo, TNT Warhead, Ran off of Alcohol, Steam Turbine Engine.

Mk 16 Torpedo, TPX Warhead, Ran off of Hydrogen Peroxide Turbine Engine.

Mk 37 Torpedo, HBX3 Warhead, Ran off Wet Cell Battery, Electric Motor.

Mk 45 Astor Torpedo, Nuclear Warhead, Ran off of Wet Cell Battery, Electric Motor.

Later in 1976 the Mk 45, 37, 16 and 14 torpedoes were replaced by the Mk 48 Torpedo, PBXN-105 Warhead, Ran off of Otto (Liquid Oxygenated) Fuel and a 6 cylinder Swash-plate piston engine.

As for targeting a Typhoon, the choice is obvious. Mark 48 ADCAP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27vRt6S6aZo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y863lraJ3F4

 

[pcgeek11]

Do you own a bunch of Newport news stock? Never understood thanking ppl for "service". What are they doing for you exactly besides sucking up about 30% of your taxes and many would argue create more enemies. If they took saudi and distributed revenues to USA citizens I might agree.

We do the things that spineless cunts that bad mouth the military on the internet do not have the balls to even contemplate, let alone do. Go screw yourself.

 

[Scotteq]

That's the core thing here, I think. Two nations the power of America and Red China are not going to war in the twenty-first century unless they blunder into it through gross incompetence. Which is a great thing; morally war should be confined to works of fiction (especially video games) and if we can't reach that, at least we have eliminated it between the really big players. For now anyway..

Well.... In that case...

We

Are

Truly

F*CKED


Ladies and Gentlemen


I present for your kind consideration




THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS

 

[Orignal Earl]

I'm not worried

If you ever see them altogether, be very worried

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes you got me with that metric shit... We do not measure our Torpedos in mm only inches and feet.

When did you serve?
Pretty sure the US military uses metric these days?