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Chicago police shooting incident video released

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ivwshane said:
Honestly it really doesn’t matter what the story is, police shouldn’t discharge their weapon unless A) they are fired upon first B) the perp is a direct threat to bystanders, C) the police witness firsthand the perp committing murder or shooting directly at others, that’s it.
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Even the last one isn't right. Yes, if they are actively shooting at others, or even pointing the gun at others, then fine, fire away. But even if someone just blew someone away, if they aren't currently a threat, they should not be shot.
 
ondma said:
My judgement from looking at this video *in this particular incident* is that the officer was not justified in shooting the subject, since when he turned around, he clearly did not have a gun in his hand. Granted, it was a high stress situation that required a split second decision, but being able to handle that is what a policeman is required to do.

That said, are you seriously advocating giving fugitives one free shot before an officer responds, just because the shooter *might* miss?
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Pointing a gun at anyone, then fine, the cop is allowed to shoot, but they better be damn sure it is a fucking gun, not this "I thought his phone was a gun" shit.
 
Sunburn74 said:
You should read the story. The kid was with an adult who was breaking crimes. The adult was shooting the gun in the street per report. The cops showed up. The adult decided to ditch the gun by giving it to the kid and telling him to run. They split up and ran in different directions.

The kid threw the gun down and gave himself up. Was shot. There is no evidence the 13 year old was actually breaking any laws to my knowledge other than running when an adult told him to. They caught the adult and are charging him with felony endangerment of a child and other similar crimes.
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If the kid was with someone who was committing crimes, is he not legally guilty as well, or at least an accessory? (Not that that gives the right for the police to shoot him, obviously.)
 
ondma said:
If the kid was with someone who was committing crimes, is he not legally guilty as well, or at least an accessory? (Not that that gives the right for the police to shoot him, obviously.)
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No. Its hard to implicate/prosecute children as criminals if they are doing the crimes under the direction of an adult. You cannot do that.

The defense in general is pretty simple: the child doesn't know any better and was simply following the instructions of the adult. In this case, its even stronger because the child wasn't actually doing anything until the adult panicked, gave him the gun and told him to run. Had the kid been taken in alive, almost zero chance he faces any charges because when children are involved in crimes with adults the children are generally viewed as victims themselves.
 
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ondma said:
If the kid was with someone who was committing crimes, is he not legally guilty as well, or at least an accessory? (Not that that gives the right for the police to shoot him, obviously.)
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In America people are tried in a court of law and then sentenced. Cops shouldn’t be the judge and the executioner without a trial unless they are in the circumstances I outlined in a previous post.
 
ondma said:
Yes, this brings up two important points. The first is that fleeing from the police, fairly or unfairly, usually leads to a worse outcome.

Secondly, the police need better training and policies on what to do if a subject flees. Do you pursue them in all cases, no matter what the offense? Is deadly force justified to stop someone from fleeing? How about a taser--many times they seem ineffective and lead to using deadly force.
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Why would you be using deadly force just to stop someone from fleeing? Just to be clear, I don't think the fleeing justified the use of deadly force here. I think deadly force should stem from an imminent danger to person or others perspective. I think the fact that there was a prior shooting, the kid had a weapon and turned around quickly which gave the cop a short time to respond is what adds context to his use of deadly force.

I do think they need better training in how/when to chase suspects who flee. At times the officers put themselves in more danger which then precipitates deadly force.
 
ondma said:
If the kid was with someone who was committing crimes, is he not legally guilty as well, or at least an accessory? (Not that that gives the right for the police to shoot him, obviously.)
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I think this train of thought is dangerous. Even with your qualification.
 
KMFJD said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1382823676161236998

complying with the officers orders and still gets murdered

egr4HCo.jpg
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What is the time stamp between when the kid had a gun in his hand and when this screen capture was taken? You are making it like the police was reviewing a bad call during a baseball game and had plenty of time to review everything. In reality he had a split second decision to make....in an environment where everyday that policeman faces a lethal threat from gang members.

Personally I think police use their firearms too liberally but in this case, the cop was chasing someone he knew had a gun, at 2:30am in an area infested with gang members. If you don't want to get lit up by police maybe avoid that behavior.

768 people were murdered in Chicago in 2020. Mostly gang members like lil homicide here. No one bats an eye.
 
rudder said:
768 people were murdered in Chicago in 2020. Mostly gang members like lil homicide here. No one bats an eye.
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They should all go to prison when caught, like this police officer.

The police officer chooses to be a police officer. He chooses to be under this level of scrutiny where he will be judged for accurately making the right decision under high pressure situations. No one put a gun to his head and said you have to be a police officer and chase people in dark alleys in the night and make hard decisions. The defense that the job is hard just doesn't hold any water with me.
 
rudder said:
What is the time stamp between when the kid had a gun in his hand and when this screen capture was taken? You are making it like the police was reviewing a bad call during a baseball game and had plenty of time to review everything. In reality he had a split second decision to make....in an environment where everyday that policeman faces a lethal threat from gang members.

Personally I think police use their firearms too liberally but in this case, the cop was chasing someone he knew had a gun, at 2:30am in an area infested with gang members. If you don't want to get lit up by police maybe avoid that behavior.

768 people were murdered in Chicago in 2020. Mostly gang members like lil homicide here. No one bats an eye.
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Nice nickname for a 13yo, scumbag.
 
rudder said:
What is the time stamp between when the kid had a gun in his hand and when this screen capture was taken? You are making it like the police was reviewing a bad call during a baseball game and had plenty of time to review everything. In reality he had a split second decision to make....in an environment where everyday that policeman faces a lethal threat from gang members.

Personally I think police use their firearms too liberally but in this case, the cop was chasing someone he knew had a gun, at 2:30am in an area infested with gang members. If you don't want to get lit up by police maybe avoid that behavior.

768 people were murdered in Chicago in 2020. Mostly gang members like lil homicide here. No one bats an eye.
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Do you think an extrajudicial police shooting is going to help things in this area?
 
Leymenaide said:
What are 13 year olds doing with guns on the street at night? Can you come up with one good reason for a 13 year old to be carrying a gun?
What part of illegal do you not understand?
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So, if you are a 13 year old with a gun, you diserve to die. It if you are an adult who kills 10 people ina grocery store, you deserve to be taken into custody without being shot, and live. Think about that for a moment.. let it sink in.
 
NWRMidnight said:
So, if you are a 13 year old with a gun, you diserve to die. It if you are an adult who kills 10 people ina grocery store, you deserve to be taken into custody without being shot, and live. Think about that for a moment.. let it sink in.
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If you mow down 8 black people in a church, you score free Burger King
 
brycejones said:
I guess rudder no longer has his internet access blocked as a condition of bail.
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I got tired of this place because you all get butthurt so easily. And nothing is changed... the incessant whining is ridiculous. Then there are multiple posts trying to insult me. I want to know who told you people that I respect you enough to even care. I am honored to be actually remembered... thank you all.. that actually means I had an impact on you. Sorry the only one I remember was moonbeam. He was annoying but in a funny way at least.
 
NWRMidnight said:
So, if you are a 13 year old with a gun, you diserve to die. It if you are an adult who kills 10 people ina grocery store, you deserve to be taken into custody without being shot, and live. Think about that for a moment.. let it sink in.
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Thousands of different police departments, different training, differing experience levels of officers. Not to mention these two incident are totally different dynamics. Despite what you think... police don't go to work wanting to kill people. In Colorado the opportunity was there to take the perp alive... in Chicago it was a split second decision that went bad for the perp. Like the spa shooter in Atlanta that was taken alive. Sucks to have to pay his expenses until the death penalty is applied, but he is locked up, no longer a threat, and maybe some insight can be gained into what makes mass shooters tick.
 
rudder said:
You mean the 13 year old... with a gun... that belonged to the Latin Kings gang? That was up to no good at 2:30 in the morning? That one?
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Only person I find on Google claiming he was a Latin King is Ngo. You aren't stupid enough to believe that piece of shit, are you? Apparently you are since he is also the one claiming he was known as Lil Homicide. Got any real sources for that info?

Only thing I can find from semi-reliable sources is that the Latin Kings are threatening retaliation. Could be he was in the gang. Could be the guy who gave him the gun was in the gang and the kid was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Could even be that neither were in the gang and they just want an excuse to kill some cops.

Let's pretend we're racists and want to believe the worst because we need to in order to feel better about our pathetic, sad, miserable little lives. Let's pretend he is Lil homicide. Does that mean the cops have the right to execute him? Does it you fucking piece of shit?
 
emperus said:
I think this is one of those situations where perspective is needed. Everyone should re-watch ALL the videos, understand what took place before the shooting and try to walk in the shoes of that cop and the child.
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ROFL. What forum do you think you're on? 2/3 of the people here will see what they want to see, ignore all facts, and then call everyone who disagrees with them names until this thread dies and a new one is started. Rinse then repeat.

But yeah .....too many guns....too many stupid people with a "nobody better question or f with me attitude"....too many people scared to look at true root cause and do anything about it. America is like a 3rd world country in many ways, but particularly in terms of gun violence.
 
rudder said:
I got tired of this place because you all get butthurt so easily. And nothing is changed... the incessant whining is ridiculous. Then there are multiple posts trying to insult me. I want to know who told you people that I respect you enough to even care. I am honored to be actually remembered... thank you all.. that actually means I had an impact on you. Sorry the only one I remember was moonbeam. He was annoying but in a funny way at least.
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We remember Dahmer because he had an impact on us all. Trust me, people remembering you isn't the badge of honor you apparently think it is.
 
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