Chicago police shooting incident video released

[Bitek]

Clean Shoot

A boy should not be out at 2.37am.
A boy should not be running from the Police.
A boy should not be holding a Gun.

A police officer should NOT be put in this kind of situation. I feel really bad for the officer. This will haunt him the rest of his life.

Right. Clearly the police should be shooting bedtime breakers and open carriers.

That's why rightwingers demanded that the police should have shot Kyle Rittenhouse. A kid. With a gun. Out late. Who shot people.

Wait.. Nope. No they didn't. Gee, wonder why?!
I'm sure it's a totally logical position for these "small govt" advocates.

 

[woolfe9998]

"Things aren't getting worse, they are just getting filmed"

Deaths are the most volatile aspect of this, but the real problem is how, in virtually EVERY ASPECT OF SOCIETY, blacks face vastly different treatment than whites. In this case, by the police and justice system.

I do not, in any way shape or form, thing the BLM and equality movement is overstating or hyping anything.

I think both BLM and the media are overstating the police killings aspect of it at least. The argument is made based on the fallacy of cherry picked anecdotes. The question gets a lot murkier when you look at the data which has been compiled so far.

As far as other aspects of the black experience, I tend to take people's word about what they say they are experiencing.

But these police killings aren't about taking anyone's word on anything. There are known facts, and known biases in the manner of coverage. And because the issue is so incendiary, it's winding people up, sometimes with bad consequences. Not only are two people dead over the Blake protests, but the rioting last summer over Floyd - which was a legit case of horrible misconduct - was nonetheless politically quite harmful.

Data shows that the dems lost not white suburbanites, but culturally conservative voters of color, blacks and especially Hispanics. Because of the rioting last summer and also the defund the police rhetoric. Which cost the dems house and Senate seats. With even two more Senate seats, the dems could end the filibuster and actually get things done. Like healthcare, climate change and political reform.

The rioting cost us all that. And yes, I have to place some blame on both the media and some activists for over-cooked rhetoric.

 

[purbeast0]

bah, messed up quote

 

[BUTCH1]

How did this 13 year old know that the cop was responding to a shots fired call? Is he the dispatcher?

Apparently the 21yr old had discharged the gun 7-8X in the minutes prior, I have not seen anything about who/what he was shooting at.

 

[ivwshane]

She's in the process of stabbing someone. In mid swing with a knife.

No doubt that this is a good shoot. The girl in pink owns her life or at least her health top that cop.

BLM and activists would be ill advised to take up this one. It would do the cause great deal of harm.

I’m not judging here but let’s see if we can come up with a scenario where this is a bad shoot.

What if the girl with the knife had called the police because she felt her life was in danger by the other two girls? Does the girl in pink have a right to defend herself with a knife if that’s all she has?

If that’s what happened before the police showed up, do you think the police had an obligation to find out what was going on first or at least attempt to descalate the situation?

 

[Wuzup101]

I’m not judging here but let’s see if we can come up with a scenario where this is a bad shoot.

What if the girl with the knife had called the police because she felt her life was in danger by the other two girls? Does the girl in pink have a right to defend herself with a knife if that’s all she has?

If that’s what happened before the police showed up, do you think the police had an obligation to find out what was going on first or at least attempt to descalate the situation?

No, the actions depicted in the video aren't self defense. There are police on the scene. You can't claim that taking a run at that other girl is self defense in this case (or at least it won't be determined to be self defense in court). It doesn't really matter what happened before in this case.

Now if the girl in pink ran towards her, sure, I could buy self defense based on previous events.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think both BLM and the media are overstating the police killings aspect of it at least. The argument is made based on the fallacy of cherry picked anecdotes. The question gets a lot murkier when you look at the data which has been compiled so far.

As far as other aspects of the black experience, I tend to take people's word about what they say they are experiencing.

But these police killings aren't about taking anyone's word on anything. There are known facts, and known biases in the manner of coverage. And because the issue is so incendiary, it's winding people up, sometimes with bad consequences. Not only are two people dead over the Blake protests, but the rioting last summer over Floyd - which was a legit case of horrible misconduct - was nonetheless politically quite harmful.

Data shows that the dems lost not white suburbanites, but culturally conservative voters of color, blacks and especially Hispanics. Because of the rioting last summer and also the defund the police rhetoric. Which cost the dems house and Senate seats. With even two more Senate seats, the dems could end the filibuster and actually get things done. Like healthcare, climate change and political reform.

The rioting cost us all that. And yes, I have to place some blame on both the media and some activists for over-cooked rhetoric.

You make incredibly valid points that the rest of your fanfare here always likes to ignore and act as if it isn't true.

If your concern is black lives, then you're doing it entirely wrong.




Take a look around at interviews done of actual random people that live in black neighborhoods - there's plenty of them out there. The overall majority of these minority groups want MORE police presence if anything - but the media will have you believe that it's the opposite.

With how many cops were going to have that quit, leave urban areas, etc... crime rates will only continue to go up - and you're still going to be left sitting there holding a GIANT huge bag of turds saying "b-b-b-but what about black lives?"

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I’m not judging here but let’s see if we can come up with a scenario where this is a bad shoot.

What if the girl with the knife had called the police because she felt her life was in danger by the other two girls? Does the girl in pink have a right to defend herself with a knife if that’s all she has?

If that’s what happened before the police showed up, do you think the police had an obligation to find out what was going on first or at least attempt to descalate the situation?

She was clearly the aggressor in every way shape and form - the cop could see it right in front of him the entire time. One person is moving towards others - every single other person is fleeing.

 

[Jaskalas]

I see two arms, both raised, neither with a weapon.

I already addressed that. I DIRECTLY SPEAK TO THAT, my entire post explains why a still frame after the fact is meaningless. We see the video. The armed teen "turns to shoot" the cop. That is why he is dead. Because of how it appears when the decision to shoot is made. Not after the fact. Not from the comfort of your chair.

Your post is in total disregard of the facts, the situation as it occurred. The bodycam takes us there. When you see arms raised, that teen is already dead.

 

[rommelrommel]

Did you read what I wrote? Cops already know how to get other cops fired for snitching. They know how to gang up on , harass, intimidate, and fire cops who do "bad things" (aka snitch on) to other cops. They know how to get what they want, and they demonstrate remarkable efficiency until it is time to get rid of the bad cop. Why are cops badass at getting rid of a cop who reports a bad cop, but whiny little bitches about getting rid of the actual bad cop?

Legally, the union is not there to get their members fired, they’re there to defend their members. You seem to be having a hard time with this one. It would be like lawyers not defending a “bad” client.

 

[Jaskalas]

Or you know, cops could be trained to not shoot first.

You are facing a gun. You shoot first or you die. That is the price of an armed citizenry, of the second amendment. It bears an annual death toll.

 

[ivwshane]

You are facing a gun. You shoot first or you die. That is the price of an armed citizenry, of the second amendment. It bears an annual death toll.

How does one die from an unarmed kid?

 

[ivwshane]

God damn you are fucking stupid!

You make incredibly valid points that the rest of your fanfare here always likes to ignore and act as if it isn't true.

If your concern is black lives, then you're doing it entirely wrong.

View attachment 43443


Take a look around at interviews done of actual random people that live in black neighborhoods - there's plenty of them out there. The overall majority of these minority groups want MORE police presence if anything - but the media will have you believe that it's the opposite.

With how many cops were going to have that quit, leave urban areas, etc... crime rates will only continue to go up - and you're still going to be left sitting there holding a GIANT huge bag of turds saying "b-b-b-but what about black lives?"

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

You make incredibly valid points that the rest of your fanfare here always likes to ignore and act as if it isn't true.

If your concern is black lives, then you're doing it entirely wrong.

View attachment 43443


Take a look around at interviews done of actual random people that live in black neighborhoods - there's plenty of them out there. The overall majority of these minority groups want MORE police presence if anything - but the media will have you believe that it's the opposite.

With how many cops were going to have that quit, leave urban areas, etc... crime rates will only continue to go up - and you're still going to be left sitting there holding a GIANT huge bag of turds saying "b-b-b-but what about black lives?"

You're really not that fucking stupid, right?

BLM movement isn't about 'blacks killed by whites'. It's about black people, specifically unarmed black people, being killed by police officers who face no judgement. Further, it's about the callous disregard for black lives by the majority of our government system, which fosters most of those 'blacks killed by blacks' tally. It's also about 400 years of bullshit racism by ignorant shits like you claiming 'it's not a thing' or 'it's their own fault' which is EXACTLY what you're trying to do with that graph.

Blacks killed by whites, give me a fucking break.

 

[dank69]

You are facing a gun. You shoot first or you die. That is the price of an armed citizenry, of the second amendment. It bears an annual death toll.

That depends on a lot of factors. Cover, distance, protective gear, and many other tactical factors affect the actual chance of death, by a lot.

 

[Jaskalas]

How does one die from an unarmed kid?

Your premise is a lie when you change and or ignore the timing and the order of events.

The decision to shoot was when the teen, from that video, appears to "turn to shoot" with the gun we know he had.

He was already dead when he raised his hands. That trigger finger was not stopping. Because there was no time. What you describe occurred in less than a second. If an officer cannot respond to the threat of an actual gun with deadly force, then this country will not have law and order for long. See how many people die then.

Be honest, be truthful, or watch this country burn. The dishonesty you carry is poison to us all.

 

[ivwshane]

Your premise is a lie when you change and or ignore the timing and the order of events.

The decision to shoot was when the teen, from that video, appears to "turn to shoot" with the gun we know he had.

He was already dead when he raised his hands. That trigger finger was not stopping. Because there was no time. What you describe occurred in less than a second. If an officer cannot respond to the threat of an actual gun with deadly force, then this country will not have law and order for long. See how many people die then.

Be honest, be truthful, or watch this country burn. The dishonesty you carry is poison to us all.

Nope, that’s the premise you wish to use because you don’t think taking a split second longer while an officer has a tactical advantage and no one else is in danger, is warranted. In other words you believe in the premise of shooting first and asking questions later.

However the fact remains, when the kid was shot he was unarmed. Your refusal to acknowledge this is why your premise is bull shit.

We have the country we have because of people like you. You may have changed your fiscal policy position (some 40 years too late btw) but you still harbor your authoritarian tendencies and that bias causes you to side with the “law”.

I have studies and real world examples (other countries) to support my opinion, you have nothing but feels (another hold over of your righty thinking).

 

[ivwshane]

That depends on a lot of factors. Cover, distance, protective gear, and many other tactical factors affect the actual chance of death, by a lot.

You haven’t heard? According to our forum bad asses, shooting at a target, successfully, while turned around, in the dark, with a strobe light in your face, with adrenaline pumping, is trivial. That is of course ignoring the fact that if the kid was armed and did turn around and did raise the gun to take aim, that the officer still would have had plenty of time, relatively speaking, to shoot the kid first. Too much COD and dunning Kruger I guess.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Legally, the union is not there to get their members fired, they’re there to defend their members. You seem to be having a hard time with this one. It would be like lawyers not defending a “bad” client.

Legally, cops are there to get the bad guys. You are having a hard time with this one. It SHOULD NOT MATTER if the bad guy wears a badge and a blue uniform. If they are a bad guy they are a bad guy.

There are numerous examples of cops getting intimidated/shot in the face/fired/demoted for trying to report a bad cop. Not by the union entity; by the collective, intentional, universal actions of other cops in the department. This shows the world, that without a doubt, cops CAN AND DO get rid of cops they don't like. Why is it, if they can accomplish this really hard thing against good cops, they choose not to do it against bad cops? When a cop stops another cop from an illegal chokehold, why do the "good" cops not all gang up on and intimidate the shit out of the chokeholder? Why does the cop who stopped it get fired and intimidated? When a cop tries to talk down a suicidal person with a gun, and is doing a great job, and backup arrives and blasts the shit out of the suicidal guy....why does the cop who was doing a great job of talking suicide guy down the one who gets fired? The answer is COPS DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND THEY DON'T LIKE COPS WHO TRY TO ENFORCE THE LAW ON OTHER COPS. That is fucked up. This is the problem. Don't you think we should solve it?

 

[Bitek]

You are facing a gun. You shoot first or you die. That is the price of an armed citizenry, of the second amendment. It bears an annual death toll.

So anyone walking around open carrying can just get shot?

What's the line your standard is trying to draw here?

1. Shot in playground within 2 secs of police arriving, playing with a toy in broad daylight.

2. Carrying gun. Actively shooting people. Not even arrested at scene.

3. Had a gun at some point, but disarmed himself and followed police commands before being shot.

4. Heavily armed. Force entry into MI capital. Threaten lawmakers.
POLICE JUST SITTING THERE CHILLING "YEAH THIS IS NORMAL..."

5. Not consequences to that.. so we get this. Cops beaten and killed. Assassins hunt lawmakers. Only one bullet fired.

Fucked. Up.

Actual terrorists we do nothing. Oh, but city cops doing a hell of a job taking out unarmed middle schoolers...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So anyone walking around open carrying can just get shot?

What's the line you standard you are trying to draw here?

1. Shot in playground within 2 secs of police arriving, playing with a toy in broad daylight.

2. Carrying gun. Actively shooting people. Not even arrested at scene.

3. Had a gun at some point, but disarmed himself and followed police commands before being shot.

4. Heavily armed. Force entry into MI capital. Threaten lawmakers.
POLICE JUST SITTING THERE CHILLING "YEAH THIS IS NORMAL..."

5. Not consequences to that.. so we get this. Cops beaten and killed. Assassins hunt lawmakers. Only one bullet fired.

Fucked. Up.

Actual terrorists we do nothing. Oh, but city cops doing a hell of a job taking out unarmed middle schoolers...

Are you too dumb to understand what cherry picked data is? Google white kid *<insert scenario> shot by police, guarantee you will find the same scenario.

The difference is you didn't give a shit because you're a classic victim of race baiting and love segregating news, media, etc... On racial lines.

 

[nickqt]

Are you too dumb to understand what cherry picked data is? Google white kid *<insert scenario> shot by police, guarantee you will find the same scenario.

The difference is you didn't give a shit because you're a classic victim of race baiting and love segregating news, media, etc... On racial lines.

The sheer amount of screaming at the raging fucking moron you see in the mirror is astonishing in this post.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[rommelrommel]

Legally, cops are there to get the bad guys. You are having a hard time with this one. It SHOULD NOT MATTER if the bad guy wears a badge and a blue uniform. If they are a bad guy they are a bad guy.

There are numerous examples of cops getting intimidated/shot in the face/fired/demoted for trying to report a bad cop. Not by the union entity; by the collective, intentional, universal actions of other cops in the department. This shows the world, that without a doubt, cops CAN AND DO get rid of cops they don't like. Why is it, if they can accomplish this really hard thing against good cops, they choose not to do it against bad cops? When a cop stops another cop from an illegal chokehold, why do the "good" cops not all gang up on and intimidate the shit out of the chokeholder? Why does the cop who stopped it get fired and intimidated? When a cop tries to talk down a suicidal person with a gun, and is doing a great job, and backup arrives and blasts the shit out of the suicidal guy....why does the cop who was doing a great job of talking suicide guy down the one who gets fired? The answer is COPS DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND THEY DON'T LIKE COPS WHO TRY TO ENFORCE THE LAW ON OTHER COPS. That is fucked up. This is the problem. Don't you think we should solve it?

This is a pretty major goalpost shift from attacking unions and CBA's.

 

[Bitek]

Are you too dumb to understand what cherry picked data is? Google white kid *<insert scenario> shot by police, guarantee you will find the same scenario.

The difference is you didn't give a shit because you're a classic victim of race baiting and love segregating news, media, etc... On racial lines.

Is that word salad your logic, or just feeding some bugaloo page rank algo?

Not a hard concept we're working with here. It's unacceptable of cops just blithely shooting kids.

A true patriot, actually concerned about freedom and overreaching govt powers, should set a pretty high bar when it comes to killing children.

Yet the rw are just a bunch of cosplay self-absorbed babies.

Ready for assassination and armed insurrection over a wearing a mask to the grocery store during a deadly pandemic.
Handwaving away parents and brothers and sisters burying a child for avoidable reasons, and letting reckless govt officials remain immune from accountability.

Perhaps if we at least had some constancy in policing, maybe a pile of dead rioting magas on the Capitol steps, maybe they'd change their tune. But no, current system workin just fine for them.