chicago must hire 111 black fire fighters

[classy]

They didn't pick randomly though, they simply said they did. Which is so when the claims of not enough minorities getting hired come up, they can go "look, we did it randomly, we can't help if it 800 black people applied but only 2 got hired. Umm it was totally random!" The numbers are disproportionate to the number of applications, even when you factor in only 11% scoring higher than 89. I'm not saying 111 more should be hired for no reason, but they should look at the 11% that score sufficiently high on the test and compare the percentage to how many white people got the job. I bet the numbers won't jive.

How much you wanna bet out of those 1800 jobs, 1500-1600 went to whites? The article doesn't tell the true numbers, but the city has lost this case at every level. That ain't for no reason.

And the way I read this, is that there were many blacks who scored 89 or better but were randomly not hired.

 

[herkulease]

Tell that to the people taking the ABSITE.

I believe this lawsuit stemmed from the fact that the test and cutoff score of 89 was biased towards whites. In my opinion standardized tests are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If I scored a perfect on USMLE or some other standaridzed test does NOT mean I'm going to be better than another person at some job. Standardized tests are just a means of narrowing a pool of applicants down, they are not predictors of long term outcomes.

At some point some arbitrary value will be used to separate people and someone will complain its unfair if the value used results in some racial disparity. Whether its a physical or intellectual test.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Fuck that noise.

 

[QueBert]

How much you wanna bet out of those 1800 jobs, 1500-1600 went to whites? The article doesn't tell the true numbers, but the city has lost this case at every level. That ain't for no reason.

And the way I read this, is that there were many blacks who scored 89 or better but were randomly not hired.

Ummm, if there were 1800 jobs the numbers of white hired would have been way higher than 1600. I'm not sure if you misread what I wrote, but I'm saying they didn't randomly hire people, they just said it so they can't be accused of going out of their way to not hiring black people. I have enough black friends to know even when they're the best qualified for the job, there's a really good chance they'll never even be considered. The fact the courts are having to step in and forcing the F.D. to hire non whites tells me all I need to know here.

 

[pcgeek11]

Chicago... Need I say more?

 

[foghorn67]

Wow Chicago is going to bankrupt its way into oblivion.

IL is a the most corrupt place in existence...

I've never seen a city that wants to be Detroit so bad. Until Chicago came along. A shame, Chicago has some nice things going for it.

 

[Powermoloch]

Only in America

 

[foghorn67]

Shens, nothing beats Cali. We`re #1 in everything, especially government corruption. Hell, look at the city of Bell.

Their cops would go to local car shows and brag their motorcycles were Harley's. I love Harley's and all, but there is a reason the police preferred Kawasaki bikes then.

 

[Svnla]

I'm having a hard time understanding why they chose randomly instead of just picking the best applicants.

I think there are more background stories of why they did what they did.

Is scoring at the top of an aptitude test more important than scoring at the top of the physical requirements test to be a fire fighter?

Why not have the the physical requirements testing be completed first and then take the top 11% in the physical requirements test be allowed to take the aptitude test next and have those become fire fighters?

In my original post that you quoted, I was talking about college admission so highest scorers in standardized tests should be the ones to be pick (and other typical factors such as activities/recommendations) and should not be push aside for lower achievers via some PC bullcraps.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Tell that to the people taking the ABSITE.

I believe this lawsuit stemmed from the fact that the test and cutoff score of 89 was biased towards whites. In my opinion standardized tests are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If I scored a perfect on USMLE or some other standaridzed test does NOT mean I'm going to be better than another person at some job. Standardized tests are just a means of narrowing a pool of applicants down, they are not predictors of long term outcomes.

So who's to say that those scoring a 0 on the test couldn't be better firefighters? Those tests are meant to filter out the total idiots, so you are at least left with people with some common sense. And if you still have loads left when filtering on the minimum requirements why shouldn't you raise the requirements a bit to see whether you can get a better suited group to pick from?

Maybe someone should find the list of questions these people got, to see why the questions wouldn't be suited to filter out the incompetent ones.

 

[Murloc]

this is the most retarded thing I ever read. Seriously, what purpose does the american judiciary system has?
Anything I hear, it's not to make justice, it's only about getting money from others by playing the system.

They should just have said that the top 1800 applicants get hired, period.

 

[Exterous]

They should just have said that the top 1800 applicants get hired, period.

We've tried this. Some group always complains that there are not enough of them being hired then too

 

[glenn1]

It would really make things easier for everyone if the courts could simply tell employers in advance what percentage of minorities need to be hired for any number of job openings; the employers could hire their minority quota first then get around to the job of selecting the best candidates for the remaining positions. If you're going to have lawsuits to second-guess hiring decisions anyway, why not get it out in the open and done with rather than this charade after the fact?

Also, it would be interesting to assign all the new hires to minority neighborhoods, and see whether the residents would be happy with this or demand the "better qualified" candidates with the higher test scores. If they don't mind, you have your answer for how to staff positions in the future.

 

[TridenT]

Didn't read it all, but that's a lotta monies to just throw away.

From the snippets I read they're giving people who didn't pass with flying colors (get it?) money because they didn't get hired.

So, if I do bad on the SAT... I should get money because Stanford won't accept me now? I'm just thinking that's basically what it was.

 

[Zen0]

Yea screw having the best candidates regardless of race, the black people that scored below the cutoff point still should be hired because they're black, not because they were below the minimum. Why aren't the white people that scored below 89 not getting back pay? Oh yea, it`s because they're white and you can't be racist to a white person. This type of stuff disgusts me and just perpetuates racism.

The intent of the city was clearly to statistically exclude blacks, but the order carried out by the court is less fair than it is to make a point or to punish the city.

In that crossfire, some potential white firefighters may have gotten the short end of the stick.

In any case, Firefighting tests... heh...

 

[Zen0]

Didn't read it all, but that's a lotta monies to just throw away.

From the snippets I read they're giving people who didn't pass with flying colors (get it?) money because they didn't get hired.

So, if I do bad on the SAT... I should get money because Stanford won't accept me now? I'm just thinking that's basically what it was.

The Court would be on your side... if you could prove that Stanford purposely excluded you because your race sucks at SATs.

Well, that's a bit more like self-selection for any higher education institution. We all know only the Asians and Whites get in to Harvard and Stanford.

 

[classy]

It would really make things easier for everyone if the courts could simply tell employers in advance what percentage of minorities need to be hired for any number of job openings; the employers could hire their minority quota first then get around to the job of selecting the best candidates for the remaining positions. If you're going to have lawsuits to second-guess hiring decisions anyway, why not get it out in the open and done with rather than this charade after the fact?

Also, it would be interesting to assign all the new hires to minority neighborhoods, and see whether the residents would be happy with this or demand the "better qualified" candidates with the higher test scores. If they don't mind, you have your answer for how to staff positions in the future.

You know I have come to expect better out of you. That last paragraph really blows dude. First off many are not even reading the fvcking article. This suit is more about the blacks who made the 89 cutoff and didn't get hired because of some random thing. Now the article is void of a lot of details and so we are left to speculate. This case has been decided in the same way all the way up the ladder. So I have to assume that there is some concrete factual evidence as to why these justices all have ruled basically in the same way.

But for you to suggest in some back @ss way that minority neighborhoods should get less competant people regardless of race is a joke. A minority home on fire with lives at stake are no less valuable than a white home, douchebag.

I don't get the whole thing with those who passed but came up short of 89 and didn't get hired, like I said any thoughts on that is just speculation at best because we have no facts. But I would assume that based on 16 years of this being in the courts and the ruling being the same up the ladder, obviously there is some basis for it not included in this blurb article.

I gets under my skin every time something like this gets posted here, it always comes out blacks or minorities are less valuable people than whites. Its bs..........................

 

[Zen0]

You know I have come to expect better out of you. That last paragraph really blows dude. First off many are not even reading the fvcking article. This suit is more about the blacks who made the 89 cutoff and didn't get hired because of some random thing. Now the article is void of a lot of details and so we are left to speculate. This case has been decided in the same way all the way up the ladder. So I have to assume that there is some concrete factual evidence as to why these justices all have ruled basically in the same way.

But for you to suggest in some back @ss way that minority neighborhoods should get less competant people regardless of race is a joke. A minority home on fire with lives at stake are no less valuable than a white home, douchebag.

I don't get the whole thing with those who passed but came up short of 89 and didn't get hired, like I said any thoughts on that is just speculation at best because we have no facts. But I would assume that based on 16 years of this being in the courts and the ruling being the same up the ladder, obviously there is some basis for it not included in this blurb article.

I gets under my skin every time something like this gets posted here, it always comes out blacks or minorities are less valuable people than whites. Its bs..........................

Well you clearly couldn't get an 89 on that test if you're life depended on it.

Scores over 89 by demographic: 8X% white, 11% Black, Y% Other

Only those who scored over 89 were eligible for the random draw.

Which is basically saying, "Yes, you guys got a 65, congratulations retards, you got D- but didn't fail, but we only take the A- and up students, which happen to be mostly White".

Is any of this sinking in?

 

[mizzou]

I'm trying to think of what "white" questions would be that a different group would not understand, I'm having a hard time.


Is this story for real? I can't imagine any judge being OK that people who probably at this point have no business being a firefighter, get pension and an auto=hire? Makes no HR sense at all.

What they need to do is make sure their test is better.

 

[Zen0]

I'm trying to think of what "white" questions would be that a different group would not understand, I'm having a hard time.


Is this story for real? I can't imagine any judge being OK that people who probably at this point have no business being a firefighter, get pension and an auto=hire? Makes no HR sense at all.

What they need to do is make sure their test is better.

Reading comprehension? 2+5? Elementary level logic?

Let's not pretend that Black and Hispanic minorities are also the least educated.

Hell, look at Classy. He couldn't even understand the article in this OP. He neverthless thinks he's perfectly equipped to pass judgment on homosexuals.

 

[drebo]

People who try to justify this ruling are just as racist as they claim the people they are attacking are.

People who look for racism will ALWAYS find it. ALWAYS. This ruling is further proof of it.

Last I checked, random didn't care what color something was.

 

[ElFenix]

I'm trying to think of what "white" questions would be that a different group would not understand, I'm having a hard time.

iirc, it's been decided questions like this:

whale : ocean::moose: ?

a) river
b) forest
c) desert
d) swamp

are racist because black people haven't seen mooses.

edit: damn forum code

 

[Zen0]

People who try to justify this ruling are just as racist as they claim the people they are attacking are.

People who look for racism will ALWAYS find it. ALWAYS. This ruling is further proof of it.

Last I checked, random didn't care what color something was.

Posts like this make a bit conflicted on this issue.

On one hand, I don't think a Firefighter job needs the brightest people in the world.

On the other hand, I don't think I would be at all comfortable having people like you becoming firefighters having such a limited intellectual facility.

 

[Zen0]

iirc, it's been decided questions like this:

whale : ocean::moose: ?

a) river
b) forest
c) desert
d) swamp

are racist because black people haven't seen mooses.

edit: damn forum code

Moose are everywhere though. Just like Deer. They reside on the side of your road waiting to jump in front of your car.

 

[Capt Caveman]

People who try to justify this ruling are just as racist as they claim the people they are attacking are.

People who look for racism will ALWAYS find it. ALWAYS. This ruling is further proof of it.

Last I checked, random didn't care what color something was.

And people that aren't smart enough to understand the issue and ruling are racists. Proof is the above.