chicago must hire 111 black fire fighters

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sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
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False, RTFA

6,000 others who also passed the test will divide "tens of millions of dollars" that would have been paid 111 firefighters from 1995 until today

This case covered EVERYBODY that passed on the orignal terms.

or not...
there were 26000 applicants, 30% failed < 64.
Of the remaining 18000... 2000 were above 89.
Of the remaining 16000... 6000 were black...
these 6000 were the blacks who were 89 > x > 64... no mention of the 10000 whites also exluded.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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0
or not...
there were 26000 applicants, 30% failed < 64.
Of the remaining 18000... 2000 were above 89.
Of the remaining 16000... 6000 were black...
these 6000 were the blacks who were 89 > x > 64... no mention of the 10000 whites also exluded.


Nothing stopping them from filing suit.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,650
203
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Nothing stopping them from filing suit.

BUT WAIT A MINUTE... you just said...

This case covered EVERYBODY that passed on the orignal terms.

obviously that is not the case...


reverse discrimination is still discrimination. this entire lawsuit is a fraud.





Can you read?

It said

"111 jobs would be filled from the applicants who passed the 1995 test and their pensions would be adjusted as if they'd been firefighters since 1995."

Nothing in there about race.
I guess facts are something you don't understand to well?

who doesnt understand the facts? looks like YOU.
 
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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BUT WAIT A MINUTE... you just said...



obviously that is not the case...


reverse discrimination is still discrimination. this entire lawsuit is a fraud.

The Court can only rule for or against the plaintiffs. No one stopped any of the others discriminated to file suit.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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Why they are singling out 111 blacks is the big question. Sure there were latinos that were > 64, or Indians, etc. The city has a big glob of egg on its face.
 
Aug 23, 2000
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Remember this term. More Equal. That's what people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton want. They don't want equality, they want to be More Equal. They don't want blacks to be discriminated against, but they want blacks to discriminate against whites. Luckily more and more blacks are seeing that people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton the cuase of a lot of problems blacks have, they are starting to no longer listen to those fools.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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BUT WAIT A MINUTE... you just said...



obviously that is not the case...


reverse discrimination is still discrimination. this entire lawsuit is a fraud.





who doesnt understand the facts? looks like YOU.

"6,000 others who also passed the test will divide "tens of millions of dollars" that would have been paid 111 firefighters from 1995 until today."

Miss that part?
 

Numenorean

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2008
4,442
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What a massive expense for the city of Chicago. Paying 111 guys a pension isn't going to be cheap, nevermind the upfront lump payment. It'd be a shame if they had to close fire stations due to lack of funding because of this.

They should close all the fire stations in predominantly black neighborhoods since blacks are such good firefighters they don't need them there.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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"6,000 others who also passed the test will divide "tens of millions of dollars" that would have been paid 111 firefighters from 1995 until today."

Miss that part?

Just for you Marlin. Another source.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9N6P3GO2.htm

"An attorney for the candidates says the ruling means that 111 firefighters will be hired from the list of 6,000 African Americans who passed the test. The lawyer says the others will share in the back pay that 111 firefighters would have earned had they been hired when they passed the test."

See all 6000 were black as i assumed from the yahoo article even though it didnt specifically say.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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Just for you Marlin. Another source.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9N6P3GO2.htm

"An attorney for the candidates says the ruling means that 111 firefighters will be hired from the list of 6,000 African Americans who passed the test. The lawyer says the others will share in the back pay that 111 firefighters would have earned had they been hired when they passed the test."

See all 6000 were black as i assumed from the yahoo article even though it didnt specifically say.

Then that just makes it even easier for others to apply for a claim as well. Can probable just write a letter to be added to the claim without a lawyer.

Like I said I do HR for the Fed and what the city did was awful and anybody with a brain can see it should have been canceled if they wanted to change the rules. I have canceled ads before because they did not get a good person or added harder questions for better weeding.
 

thegimp03

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2004
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Chicago and San Francisco are in a dead heat for becoming the city with the most retarded court rulings.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Then that just makes it even easier for others to apply for a claim as well. Can probable just write a letter to be added to the claim without a lawyer.

Like I said I do HR for the Fed and what the city did was awful and anybody with a brain can see it should have been canceled if they wanted to change the rules. I have canceled ads before because they did not get a good person or added harder questions for better weeding.

You mean other black people correct? You know all the white guys that failed wont recieve a dime and would not be allowed to file claim. This suite is just a case of some blacks looking for a hand out because they feel the test score was too high for them. Why do you not hear of a case of white people banding together because they didnt meet the appropriate score? Personal responsibilty is why. It is not our fault they cannot make the grade so to speak. Maybe they should study harder or get a better education first.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
People are still doing this?

I thought people wanted equal right. Skin color has nothing to do with passing a test.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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You mean other black people correct? You know all the white guys that failed wont recieve a dime and would not be allowed to file claim. This suite is just a case of some blacks looking for a hand out because they feel the test score was too high for them. Why do you not hear of a case of white people banding together because they didnt meet the appropriate score? Personal responsibilty is why. It is not our fault they cannot make the grade so to speak. Maybe they should study harder or get a better education first.


OMG do you even read the story or what you wrote?

THEY PASSED!!! The passing score was set and they meet it. The selecting people saw the list and then changed it to another number that had no rhym or reason, even the city did not try and defend that.


People are still doing this?

I thought people wanted equal right. Skin color has nothing to do with passing a test.


You're right, as these people did pass.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
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Chicago and San Francisco are in a dead heat for becoming the city with the most retarded court rulings.

district 7 and 9. most of their rulings should either be sent to the SC to get knocked down, or atleast forwarded to a less crazy district.

chicago did after all enact another handgun ban with more red tape after the DC one was shot down and they were told theirs was invalid.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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OMG do you even read the story or what you wrote?

THEY PASSED!!! The passing score was set and they meet it. The selecting people saw the list and then changed it to another number that had no rhym or reason, even the city did not try and defend that.

The score is arbitrary. No matter what they score is some people will not meet it. Sure it sucks it was changed after the fact, but that still doesnt mean it was racially motivated. As others have said maybe they realized a score of 65 was too easy and had too many people pass it when they only had a select number of jobs. So to weed it down to a more acceptable number they upped the score required. Doing that alone has no racial bearing. Its not the tests fault or the people who made the change racist. They just want the best of the best as ive pointed out before. And if those best happen to be white so what? Should whites be punished for being smarter? Should blacks get a free ride because they dont score as high as some white people? Affirmative Action is crap and perpertrates racism.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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Well here are some facts.

The case went before the US Supreme Court to determine if the suit was filed in the proper amount of time. They concluded yes it was 9-0.

The case itself has been heard by four judges
Frank Easterbrook appointed by Reagan
Joan B. Gottschall appointed by Clinton
Richard Posner appointed by Reagan
William Joseph Bauer appointed by Ford


So that is 3 appointed by Republicans and 1 by a democrat.

I will highlight 3 issues

The first issue is, was the hiring done properly? The answer would be no

From May 1996 through November 2001, the City hired 11 groups of applicants from the well-qualified pool. Each time it chose at random from those who had scored 89 or better; it did not follow the common civil-service practice of hiring in rank order from a list.

2nd issue is, was the random selection really random? Well evidence would say no

We grant the possibility that, by chance, one batch or another would not create a disparate impact; indeed, it is possible that chance would produce a batch in which minority applicants predominated. But the City does not say that this occurred, and the law of large numbers is against it. Moreover, because the City hired from the well qualified pool until it was exhausted, the 10 properly challenged “uses” as a whole matched the pool and had the same disparate impact. If one or more of the 10 contested hiring classes departed materially from what a random draw would be expected to produce, the City should have pointed this out; it never did, so plaintiffs are entitled to the natural inference that all classes were alike.

3rd issue, did the city really believe a better fireman would come from a person who scored 89 over 64? The answer is no

But Chicago did not hire new firefighters in rank order. Everyone who scored 89 and up was treated alike; everyone who scored 65 to 88 was treated alike. The City conceded that this difference created a disparate impact. The district judge found that the cutoff at 89 was not justified, and the City did not appeal that conclusion.

Cliffs, the city did not use common civil service hiring practices. Because of the larger pool of whites in general, based on size, not brains, the cutoff at 89 they instituted knowingly created a disadvantage for blacks. The city presented no reason why they chose to use a cutoff score after the fact, I think its obvious. The numbers were large enough to a point where one of the hiring pools should have produced a mostly black or minority group, if it was just done by chance.

Everyone who qualified will get something out of this not just blacks.

The full opinion pdf, its only 9 pages. But it is clear after reading it what was going on here, crystal clear.

Link to decision.
http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/7U10EBMT.pdf