Chicago Going Crazy

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Nov 8, 2012
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Really, America is a shithole. Cities tend to concentrate things, but you can honestly blame 40 years of wage stagnation, coupled with a war on drugs, war on blacks, war on homelessness, war on the poor, and of course just plain old war.

wage stagnation

Chicago has upped their minimum wage, I think it's currently set to $14/hour and is raising next year or something to $15.


war on drugs

Chicago has all the control in the world to not enforce federal drug laws. Pretty sure weed was legalized at the state level as well


war on homelessness, war on the poor, blah blah

Again, they can do whatever they want. They can make their own programs, impose their own taxes to pay for those programs, etc...

So where is the fix? The fix is always "we just need to elect a Democrat to fix things!"... So where is the fix? Everything that you guys keep preaching, CAN ALREADY BE DONE or has been done (weed legalization, minimum wage, etc...)... So why isn't it fixed or showing even any slightly moderate amount of improvement?

The fact is you guys don't give a single fuck at the homeless, vets, drug addicts, etc...
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,648
46,343
136
Also, are we saying that Richard Daley of all people was a progressive? Lol, wut.

Lol yes a famous softie. Many people seem to have just a massive lack of information and context about the politics of the past, the figures that inhabited it, and their motivations.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,648
46,343
136
The fix is always "we just need to elect a Democrat to fix things!"... So where is the fix?

This might blow your mind but it doesn't actually work like this for many of us. Ask me who the worst big city mayor who has materially harmed his city through gross ineptitude and carelessness to such a degree that he should be shot into the sun is.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
In short long running economic inequality driven by racist policies/laws sometimes imposed and or funded at the federal policy level and a few misguided attempts to help. Just like most of America. You act like there was some kind of hard stop to racism where progressive liberalism just took over and failed to do anything. How incredibly naive or intentionally obtuse.

Would you agree that Canada & UK are less racist and have better safety nets? What's weird is that the proportionality of violence and IQ difference is very similar between countries still. Or even just comparing income & IQ differences in US now and decades back. And it's obvious that this disadvantage is still going to continue for the forseeable future, since we can already see the academic differences in elementary school despite racism amoung recent generations going down dramatically. Results are going to be disappointing albeit still improving their lives obviously no matter what if we can't close the IQ gap.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
In short long running economic inequality driven by racist policies/laws sometimes imposed and or funded at the federal policy level and a few misguided attempts to help. Just like most of America. You act like there was some kind of hard stop to racism where progressive liberalism just took over and failed to do anything. How incredibly naive or intentionally obtuse.
imtentionally obtuse...intentionally lying,,,,,,,,you see the problem with s0meonesmind1 SOP.....
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,371
16,646
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Some light reading (no really, it's not that long) regarding riot escalation for anyone curious.

Some highlights:
Frequently violent riots burst out of mounting community tension due to economic or cultural oppression (Chuchouisuwan, Chantachon, & Rodhetphai, 2011). In situations like this King (2004) and Murphy, Sargeant, and Cherney (2015) indicated the importance of community confidence in the police for the de-escalation of riot situations.
Many of the tactics actually employed are not as effective as they could be in a long term perspective of maintaining public order. One strategy that is still in use in some places is the escalated force approach. This tactic comes from a perspective of mob sociology, which frames protesters or a gathering of the public as unorganized leaderless crowds falling into riot behavior by agitator influence. Schweingruber (2000) described how this agitation can come from internal individual influence within the crowd, or by external influence by unjustified action from the police or an other, or even by exposure of police weakness. “The strategies that police adopt toward these demonstrators depend not primarily on the demonstrators “objective” actions or attributes but on the socially constructed images of the demonstrators and predictions about their behavior” (Schweingruber, 2000, p. 372). The idea of mob sociology is used to justify the escalated force model, where the police objective is to quell disorder as quickly as possible. In this model, First Amendment rights are ignored, there is a low tolerance for community disruption or changes in status quo, nor is there much if any contact or communication between police and protesters, aside from police infiltration. These standards facilitate mass arrests, as well as the use of force in lieu of arrests for crowd dispersal (Schweingruber, 2000). This also aligns with the riot curve theory which describes a riot as beginning from a state of normal policing, to high tension, which leads to pre-riot stage, progressing to the apex of the riot, then falling to the post-riot stage, and back to a state of normal policing (King, 2004). In these models of crowd behavior an escalated force approach to policing addresses the main concern of return to order. However, Schweingruber (2000) suggested that as a result of this perspective of the inevitability of the progression of the riot stages “police often provoked the expected violence and “proved” the “reality” of the images” (p. 372). This approach to crowd and riot policing may appear effective in accomplishing the desired outcome, but that may simply be because it perpetuates the framework which provides its justification.
In response to vandalism and in efforts to maintain order and control, without the man power for mass arrests, police began using non-lethal crowd dispersal tactics. This included tear-gas and concussion grenades (Gillham & Marx, 2000). However, just as the police seemed to not expect the protesters to follow the agreed upon script, the protesters also expected the police to detour from the agreement. The negotiations established that police would not be using chemical irritants and similar non-lethal dispersal weapons, yet the protesters had prepared themselves with gas masks and vinegar soaked bandanas to protect themselves from precisely these types of tactics (Gillham & Marx, 2000). As a result these tactics were largely ineffective in achieving police objectives. Protesters were protected and mostly unhindered by the gas, while unintended targets, such as shoppers, WTO delegates, and city officials were affected (Gillham & Marx, 2000). Instead of dispersing the protesters these tactics fueled protester distrust, anger, and sense of betrayal, escalating the aggression of the crowd and strengthening protester resolve against police. After the first day of protests proceeded much differently from the agreement, the city passed an emergency zoning ordinance to effectively ban protest in the downtown area where the WTO event was taking place (Herbert, 2007). The protesters didn’t see this as a legitimate action, because they had gained approval for that location in the prior negotiations and had already occupied the space from the first day of the protest (Gillham & Marx, 2000). The protesters treated the ordinance with an attitude of “no take backs” and continued to occupy the applicable zone. Police found these actions to be a challenge to their authority and control (Gillham & Marx, 2000; & Herbert, 2007). After tear gas had proven less effective than anticipated, police also utilized rubber bullets and concussion grenades to move protesters to more desirable locations in the Capitol Hill neighborhood where they could more easily control the crowd out of the way of business and commuters. From this point the situation again escalated, with increased aggression and disorder (Gillham & Marx, 2000).
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,371
16,646
146
Chicago has upped their minimum wage, I think it's currently set to $14/hour and is raising next year or something to $15.




Chicago has all the control in the world to not enforce federal drug laws. Pretty sure weed was legalized at the state level as well




Again, they can do whatever they want. They can make their own programs, impose their own taxes to pay for those programs, etc...

So where is the fix? The fix is always "we just need to elect a Democrat to fix things!"... So where is the fix? Everything that you guys keep preaching, CAN ALREADY BE DONE or has been done (weed legalization, minimum wage, etc...)... So why isn't it fixed or showing even any slightly moderate amount of improvement?
Fuck man, do you just want to blame a Democrat for the everything? Yes, things are improving, and things will improve with the city if they continue to do what they're doing (barring continued federal police presence of course). Yeah they've had some failed policies in the past, as every city has. If you were to ask me why, I'd say because our legislation isn't borne in science and actively ignores or silences science for its own gain. But again, this isn't a 'Chicago problem' so quit trying to pin the tail on the donkey here. It's arguing in bad faith.
The fact is you guys don't give a single fuck at the homeless, vets, drug addicts, etc...
No, that isn't a fact, that's something you're trying to paint on people in this forum and in this thread, because you actively hate anyone that doesn't think the same way you do, or hate the same things you do. You're mentally isolated, alone on an island with a pointy stick, sure that the ships passing by are your enemy.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,061
12,279
136
Fuck man, do you just want to blame a Democrat for the everything? Yes, things are improving, and things will improve with the city if they continue to do what they're doing (barring continued federal police presence of course). Yeah they've had some failed policies in the past, as every city has. If you were to ask me why, I'd say because our legislation isn't borne in science and actively ignores or silences science for its own gain. But again, this isn't a 'Chicago problem' so quit trying to pin the tail on the donkey here. It's arguing in bad faith.

No, that isn't a fact, that's something you're trying to paint on people in this forum and in this thread, because you actively hate anyone that doesn't think the same way you do, or hate the same things you do. You're mentally isolated, alone on an island with a pointy stick, sure that the ships passing by are your enemy.
Couldn't possibly be that nothing is that town has moved an inch in regards to it's oppressive racism.

 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,189
15,599
136
Defunding police and providing community liaisons are the only answer.

Consent based policing.
Police are the public the public are the police.
Origins? Some old document I am told.

I think this is your fellow citizens SERIOUSLY considering revoking consent?

 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,521
17,029
136
Just a coincidence trouble stirring up just so Trump can swoop in and take credit.

I small agent provocateur's at work aka umbrella man. Not like Trump hasn't done this before. Cause a problem so he can be a savior.


Yep. I see a lot of white people when rioting pictures come up.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,349
32,857
136
One of the instigators of the rioting(towards end or article). Before this over I think the roots of it will be organized agitators.
Further ratcheting up the tensions in the city was a video circulating on Facebook that falsely claimed that Chicago police had shot and killed a 15-year-old boy. Posted at 6:30 p.m. Sunday, the video shows upset residents confronting officers near the scene where officers shot and wounded an adult suspect who they said had fired at them that day. By Monday morning, it had been watched nearly 100,000 times.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,521
17,029
136
One of the instigators of the rioting(towards end or article). Before this over I think the roots of it will be organized agitators.



I think it’s pretty obvious that this is a coordinated effort as not only has trump been spouting rhetoric that matches the pictures but the right wing media is also pushing the narrative. It’s certainly not out of the question for this administration.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,249
6,438
136
So we've had a nice riot, jobs will be lost, tax revenue will go down, people that have the means will move out of the city, a few folks will spend a year or two in jail, and a few more will have new shoes and a TV. What happens next month, next year? Will anything actually change over this? Will police no longer carry weapons? Will poor people find good jobs in a city that's been looted in ways far more insidious than smashing through a window?
My hunch is that there will be some lip service payed, a few bucks handed out, and a few people vilified for doing or not doing something. One or two may even lose their jobs and be forced to retire early, with full retirement pay and benefits. Then there will be a nationwide search to find the right (overpaid) people to solve the problems. In a year it will be back to business as usual in a city floundering in debt and mismanagement.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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761
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The fact is you guys don't give a single fuck at the homeless, vets, drug addicts, etc...

lol Both parties treat vets as a privilege class of people. There is tons of different kinds of help for them. Obama made it so easy for even people just staying on ME base to eventually claim "disability". Many malingers get medically discharged over their complaints if they can't pass PT or don't have good work ethic (e.g. exercise induced asthma, depression, fibromyalgia -- even absent an actual accident). Then people complain that these same people don't get adequate free health care despite already also receiving compensation generally above SSI that they would have never gotten from workman comp (and even then, workman comp payouts suck in comparison).

Suicides in comparable civilian pop is actually higher, and many of the reasons why vets stay homeless or trouble being employed despite being advantaged of having a monthly check have nothing to do with traumas of war. I mean, what kind of success do you expect for people that sometimes come in with a criminal record and low ASVAB scores? It's stuff like substance abuse, relationship problems, bad childhoods, social isolation, mental illness, etc.. All shit found in the comparable pop who never go in the military.




 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,493
5,708
136
Im just curious what a community liaison would actually do.

We've had them for years.
They're awesome.

This article covers some of their responsibilities in our county

They do everything from doing stuff with kids to simply listening to community concerns and working with them to come up with a solutions.

Its seems to insane to me that any department would NOT have a community liaison as it makes everyone's lives easier and help create bonds between the precinct and the areas they serve.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
We've had them for years.
They're awesome.

This article covers some of their responsibilities in our county

They do everything from doing stuff with kids to simply listening to community concerns and working with them to come up with a solutions.

Its seems to insane to me that any department would NOT have a community liaison as it makes everyone's lives easier and help create bonds between the precinct and the areas they serve.

That looks like a great thing!
 
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pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
8,146
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Something something... peaceful protests... few bad apples.... overuse of force....
There was no peaceful protest happening here. If you watched the Mayor's presser she made sure to note this was an act of coordinated theft and violence and the City would not stand for it. Furthermore she noted this episode of looting was in no way connected to any BLM protest. But hey thanks for playing.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,189
15,599
136
There was no peaceful protest happening here. If you watched the Mayor's presser she made sure to note this was an act of coordinated theft and violence and the City would not stand for it. Furthermore she noted this episode of looting was in no way connected to any BLM protest. But hey thanks for playing.
I think you found the bad apple.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
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There was no peaceful protest happening here. If you watched the Mayor's presser she made sure to note this was an act of coordinated theft and violence and the City would not stand for it. Furthermore she noted this episode of looting was in no way connected to any BLM protest. But hey thanks for playing.

missedthepoint.jpg
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,228
136
Posts the guy who relies on his facebook feed to stay informed. Did you lift missedthepoint.jpg from someone you know on facebook?

They seem to take pride in being astoundingly ill-informed about damned near everything about which they attempt to pontificate.

And the lengths gone to trying to defend absurd positions, such as someone insisting he/she is absolutely correct on a particular subject, only to find out later he/she had never read anything about the subject at hand, and further was just working off what he/she had only overheard.

And yet they continue to strut around like it means something
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,577
10,265
136
Very curious to know who posted the Facebook video claiming it was an unarmed kid shot by police. Especially interested in whether said poster actually lives in the US, nevermind Chicago.
 
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Nov 29, 2006
15,884
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Very curious to know who posted the Facebook video claiming it was an unarmed kid shot by police. Especially interested in whether said poster actually lives in the US, nevermind Chicago.

Imma guess a right wing agitator looking to get his desired result. Sad that it works.
 
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