Cheney Pushes For Military Action Against Iran Before End Of Term

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: nick1985
Im sorry, but for the last 1000 years sheer numbers of men does not translate into military victory. Im sure the quality and training of those "11 million" is complete crap, not to mention their outdated weaponry. A smaller US force would have no problem beating a massive army of ill-equipped and ill-trained militia. It would be like Mike Tyson fighting 20 five year olds...

Well, if you look at Iraq, the cheap guerilla tactics are killing a fair few Americans and de-stabilizing the country; in Iran it would be the same thing. Nothing would be accomplished and tons of money would be wasted on it.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

Originally posted by: alchemize
So quit posting and lock and load, Hinckley.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

Bull ***** shit. I served, I had a choice. I could say no. I'd face consequences, but the ultimate power was MINE. Anyone who participates in an unjust action is equally guilty of the action. Nuernberg solidified this. Any soldier who takes an immoral action is wrong. Period.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: nick1985
Im sorry, but for the last 1000 years sheer numbers of men does not translate into military victory. Im sure the quality and training of those "11 million" is complete crap, not to mention their outdated weaponry. A smaller US force would have no problem beating a massive army of ill-equipped and ill-trained militia. It would be like Mike Tyson fighting 20 five year olds...

Well, if you look at Iraq, the cheap guerilla tactics are killing a fair few Americans and de-stabilizing the country; in Iran it would be the same thing. Nothing would be accomplished and tons of money would be wasted on it.

Im not advocating war with Iran. All I am stating is that in open warfare, their military would be completely annihilated no matter the size. Urban warfare, as you stated, would be another story.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

Originally posted by: alchemize
So quit posting and lock and load, Hinckley.

I've been stockpiling since 2000 my friend, when I started warning everyone what would happen if we allowed Bushco and the PNAC/Neocon menace to gain a foothold. I'm more than prepared should it become necessary.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

Bull ***** shit. I served, I had a choice. I could say no. I'd face consequences, but the ultimate power was MINE. Anyone who participates in an unjust action is equally guilty of the action. Nuernberg solidified this. Any soldier who takes an immoral action is wrong. Period.

And you are the supreme end-all power when it comes to deciding morals?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

Originally posted by: alchemize
So quit posting and lock and load, Hinckley.

I've been stockpiling since 2000 my friend, when I started warning everyone what would happen if we allowed Bushco and the PNAC/Neocon menace to gain a foothold. I'm more than prepared should it become necessary.

It isn't necessary now? You got a chance to prevent the next Hitler, man! What a pussy.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I never understand how the US has survived this long as a nation...you guys have been blowing up the world since Eisenhower became president in the 1960's.

The US can't afford a war against Iraq which has faced sanctions for years. Iran has more money and a *massive* military. I actually think the US would lose very badly to them to the point that they would be ruined as a nation.

Iran's military isn't a threat. I doubt we'd take significant losses. I think a lot of people really underplay the vast strike capabilities we now have, even without considering the airforce.

Just look at the SSGNs, 154 Tomahawks in one sub, as much as a whole carrier group had. They can be switched out pretty quickly since they are in modular tubes. Our subs face almost no threat from their navy, so within an hour we could launch over 300 missiles into Iran, striking their air bases, fixed AA locations, navy locations, barracks, C&C centers.

Surge F-15/16/18/22 into the arena to claim air superiority, take out the remainder of AA belts in progressive strikes using F-117 and B-2 or WW's. Then you JSOW the army formations with B-52/2/B-1 bombers.

Really, before they even got close to our army formations their force capability would be decimated. Our army would just have to hold them as their support and logistics get hammered. Even with portable AA, or man-equipped, arty and more cruise missiles with sub munitions will hammer them.

I think people really confuse our inability to win a limited urban/jungle war, to an all-out destruction of a fighting force. Our armed forces excel at being able to utterly crush enemy armies.

It wouldn't even be fair for them. We found out a decade later that the Soviet forces, even despite their massive size, wouldn't have stood a chance against our forces. The Iranian military is a fraction of the size and is barely more advanced.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

The Islamic Republic of Iran has two kinds of armed forces: the regular forces Islamic Republic of Iran Army, Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, Islamic Republic of Iran Navy and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), totalling about 545,000 active troops. Iran also has around 350,000 Reserve Force totalling around 900,000 trained troops.[94]

Iran also has a paramilitary, volunteer militia force within the IRGC, called the Basij, which includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed members, and a further 11 million men and women who could be mobilized[95] This is the largest number of troop mobilization in the world.

Iran's military capabilities are kept largely secret. Since 1992, it has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, guided missiles, submarines, and fighter planes.[96] In recent years, official announcements have highlighted the development of weapons such as Fajr-3 (MIRV) missile, Hoot, Kowsar, Zelzal, Fateh-110, Shahab-3, and a variety of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The Fajr-3 (MIRV) is currently Iran's most advanced ballistic missile. It is a domestically-developed and produced liquid fuel missile with an unknown range. The IRIS solid-fuelled missile is a program which is supposed to be Iran's first missile to bring satellites into orbit. In 2005, Iran's military spending represented 3.3% of the GDP or $91 per capita, the lowest figure of the Persian Gulf nations.[97] Iran's military doctrine is to defend its territorial integrity only.

I've bolded what I feel refutes your point about their miliary. As powerful as the US military is, I just can't see them wiping out a militia of 11 million people. The boldness at the bottom is why I feel the states should leave them alone.

I don't see why Iran couldn't sink the US aircraft carriers that are there.

1. Numbers don't mean anything at all. Sure, you could give a bunch of people guns and play "Meat Shield" with them, but who/what are they going to shoot? Tomahawks? JDAMs and JSOWs dropped from 20+ miles away? Tanks they can't shoot accurately or have to get close with? Artillery that is guided by GPS or other means which can reach 30+ miles?

Those numbers mean nothing when we can mow them down by the thousands. Look at Iraq's army during 91 and 03, it was not even close to a fair fight.

2. Reaching a carrier and even sinking one is a far tougher endevour than you'd think. Having to get through multiple layers of missile defense, including the newer close-in defenses (forgot the name for the CIWS replacement), and then hitting it many many times, is very difficult. I think people underestimate how massive a carrier is and how protected it is. Any war with Iran would require initial strikes against any fixed (or known mobile) launcher that could reach a carrier.

People really forget that armies are nothing but big fat targets for air.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

Bull ***** shit. I served, I had a choice. I could say no. I'd face consequences, but the ultimate power was MINE. Anyone who participates in an unjust action is equally guilty of the action. Nuernberg solidified this. Any soldier who takes an immoral action is wrong. Period.

And you are the supreme end-all power when it comes to deciding morals?

For myself, yes. Just like everyone is their own keeper as well. Hey, if you support such actions, that's your right...but it's my right to oppose you. It's your right to wish I was locked up for it, it's my right to wish you were dead for it. That is the heart of conflict. The strength of nation comes from seeking compromise to prevent either extreme. Compromise has been refused by our government. That leaves only the extreme.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

Originally posted by: alchemize
So quit posting and lock and load, Hinckley.

I've been stockpiling since 2000 my friend, when I started warning everyone what would happen if we allowed Bushco and the PNAC/Neocon menace to gain a foothold. I'm more than prepared should it become necessary.

It isn't necessary now? You got a chance to prevent the next Hitler, man! What a pussy.

My hope has been that the Dems would have grown a pair and shut him down before he could do more damage. I still hold that slight hope. Violence must be the very last resort. Every other option must be expended first.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

Bull ***** shit. I served, I had a choice. I could say no. I'd face consequences, but the ultimate power was MINE. Anyone who participates in an unjust action is equally guilty of the action. Nuernberg solidified this. Any soldier who takes an immoral action is wrong. Period.

And you are the supreme end-all power when it comes to deciding morals?

For myself, yes. Just like everyone is their own keeper as well. Hey, if you support such actions, that's your right...but it's my right to oppose you. It's your right to wish I was locked up for it, it's my right to wish you were dead for it. That is the heart of conflict. The strength of nation comes from seeking compromise to prevent either extreme. Compromise has been refused by our government. That leaves only the extreme.

So because of our inability to hold our elected officials accountable and representative of our country you think having thousands or even tens of thousands of people killed is a good thing?

I highly doubt you served because nobody that I know that has would actually think this way. Frankly, you're the epitome of a guy who takes no responsibility.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

Originally posted by: alchemize
So quit posting and lock and load, Hinckley.

I've been stockpiling since 2000 my friend, when I started warning everyone what would happen if we allowed Bushco and the PNAC/Neocon menace to gain a foothold. I'm more than prepared should it become necessary.

It isn't necessary now? You got a chance to prevent the next Hitler, man! What a pussy.

My hope has been that the Dems would have grown a pair and shut him down before he could do more damage. I still hold that slight hope. Violence must be the very last resort. Every other option must be expended first.

But you are perfectly OK with a million Americans dying instead of you taking action? What a pussy.

 

[Aimster]

As long as U.S troops are inside Iraq, Iran can bitch slap U.S troops right back.

So no war as long as the U.S is inside Iraq.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

Bull ***** shit. I served, I had a choice. I could say no. I'd face consequences, but the ultimate power was MINE. Anyone who participates in an unjust action is equally guilty of the action. Nuernberg solidified this. Any soldier who takes an immoral action is wrong. Period.

And you are the supreme end-all power when it comes to deciding morals?

For myself, yes. Just like everyone is their own keeper as well. Hey, if you support such actions, that's your right...but it's my right to oppose you. It's your right to wish I was locked up for it, it's my right to wish you were dead for it. That is the heart of conflict. The strength of nation comes from seeking compromise to prevent either extreme. Compromise has been refused by our government. That leaves only the extreme.

Listen buddy, where the heck did I say I support action against Iran? Where did I say I wish you were locked up? If you want me dead because I am pursuing the urge and honor to become a USMC officer to defend this country (and ironically people like you), then so be it. I just happen to think you are way out of line...

And Im not saying you didnt serve, but I would like to see a copy of your DD-214.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Aimster
As long as U.S troops are inside Iraq, Iran can bitch slap U.S troops right back.

So no war as long as the U.S is inside Iraq.

Are you sure about that? Do you understand the world of hurt several carrier groups could inflict on an army that has absolutely nothing to defend against them?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

You would applaud my death?

If you voluntarily participate in an unlawful action (war), then yes.

You realize soldiers have no choice as to where they are sent, right?

Bull ***** shit. I served, I had a choice. I could say no. I'd face consequences, but the ultimate power was MINE. Anyone who participates in an unjust action is equally guilty of the action. Nuernberg solidified this. Any soldier who takes an immoral action is wrong. Period.

And you are the supreme end-all power when it comes to deciding morals?

For myself, yes. Just like everyone is their own keeper as well. Hey, if you support such actions, that's your right...but it's my right to oppose you. It's your right to wish I was locked up for it, it's my right to wish you were dead for it. That is the heart of conflict. The strength of nation comes from seeking compromise to prevent either extreme. Compromise has been refused by our government. That leaves only the extreme.

So because of our inability to hold our elected officials accountable and representative of our country you think having thousands or even tens of thousands of people killed is a good thing?

I highly doubt you served because nobody that I know that has would actually think this way. Frankly, you're the epitome of a guy who takes no responsibility.

Actually I'm the epitome of the guy who takes TOTAL responsibility and always have been. Find me another member who has asked for his own vacation when he breaks forum rules. We're talking about someone willing to die to make up for allowing an evil man to take control of his country - even though one person truly can't stop such a thing.

USN 02/92 - 10/93. YN3, COMNAVSURFLANT. National Defense Service Medal. Honorable discharge.

I don't want people to die, I merely said that if it happens I would support it as nothing else seems to force Americans to action. I don't see any other way to get people to take responsibility and be proactive in the future. When England was abusive enough we finally rose up and removed them. Then we implemented safeguards to see that it didn't happen again. We were unsuccessful, but we made progress towards the goal. This is the nature of nations. Obviously it's just time to do it again and get a little closer.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I'll tell you this: if we attack Iran I'm on their side. I will loudly applaud every casualty they inflict upon us. If they sink our ships I'll throw a party. If they bring the world together against us I'll weep with joy. This administration MUST be stopped cold, and if it takes the deaths of a million Americans to wake us up to that fact and keep idiots like this out of power then so be it.

Ding ding ding...and ANOTHER new low hit on P&N!! Seriously though, I doubt this one can be topped (bottomed). Bravo /golf clap...

Why don't you just start assassinating neocons like you said a few posts ago?

You are one seriously mentally unstable person.

And you likewise call those Iranians who want Ahmadinejad dead mentally unstable? Or those few brave Germans who wanted Hitler dead, they were insane too? No, those are the patriots...the few who love their country enough to hate those who would destroy it.

Originally posted by: alchemize
So quit posting and lock and load, Hinckley.

I've been stockpiling since 2000 my friend, when I started warning everyone what would happen if we allowed Bushco and the PNAC/Neocon menace to gain a foothold. I'm more than prepared should it become necessary.

It isn't necessary now? You got a chance to prevent the next Hitler, man! What a pussy.

My hope has been that the Dems would have grown a pair and shut him down before he could do more damage. I still hold that slight hope. Violence must be the very last resort. Every other option must be expended first.

But you are perfectly OK with a million Americans dying instead of you taking action? What a pussy.

Pot, kettle.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I never understand how the US has survived this long as a nation...you guys have been blowing up the world since Eisenhower became president in the 1960's.

The US can't afford a war against Iraq which has faced sanctions for years. Iran has more money and a *massive* military. I actually think the US would lose very badly to them to the point that they would be ruined as a nation.

Iran's military isn't a threat. I doubt we'd take significant losses. I think a lot of people really underplay the vast strike capabilities we now have, even without considering the airforce.

Just look at the SSGNs, 154 Tomahawks in one sub, as much as a whole carrier group had. They can be switched out pretty quickly since they are in modular tubes. Our subs face almost no threat from their navy, so within an hour we could launch over 300 missiles into Iran, striking their air bases, fixed AA locations, navy locations, barracks, C&C centers.

Surge F-15/16/18/22 into the arena to claim air superiority, take out the remainder of AA belts in progressive strikes using F-117 and B-2 or WW's. Then you JSOW the army formations with B-52/2/B-1 bombers.

Really, before they even got close to our army formations their force capability would be decimated. Our army would just have to hold them as their support and logistics get hammered. Even with portable AA, or man-equipped, arty and more cruise missiles with sub munitions will hammer them.

I think people really confuse our inability to win a limited urban/jungle war, to an all-out destruction of a fighting force. Our armed forces excel at being able to utterly crush enemy armies.

It wouldn't even be fair for them. We found out a decade later that the Soviet forces, even despite their massive size, wouldn't have stood a chance against our forces. The Iranian military is a fraction of the size and is barely more advanced.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

The Islamic Republic of Iran has two kinds of armed forces: the regular forces Islamic Republic of Iran Army, Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, Islamic Republic of Iran Navy and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), totalling about 545,000 active troops. Iran also has around 350,000 Reserve Force totalling around 900,000 trained troops.[94]

Iran also has a paramilitary, volunteer militia force within the IRGC, called the Basij, which includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed members, and a further 11 million men and women who could be mobilized[95] This is the largest number of troop mobilization in the world.

Iran's military capabilities are kept largely secret. Since 1992, it has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, guided missiles, submarines, and fighter planes.[96] In recent years, official announcements have highlighted the development of weapons such as Fajr-3 (MIRV) missile, Hoot, Kowsar, Zelzal, Fateh-110, Shahab-3, and a variety of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The Fajr-3 (MIRV) is currently Iran's most advanced ballistic missile. It is a domestically-developed and produced liquid fuel missile with an unknown range. The IRIS solid-fuelled missile is a program which is supposed to be Iran's first missile to bring satellites into orbit. In 2005, Iran's military spending represented 3.3% of the GDP or $91 per capita, the lowest figure of the Persian Gulf nations.[97] Iran's military doctrine is to defend its territorial integrity only.

I've bolded what I feel refutes your point about their miliary. As powerful as the US military is, I just can't see them wiping out a militia of 11 million people. The boldness at the bottom is why I feel the states should leave them alone.

I don't see why Iran couldn't sink the US aircraft carriers that are there.

1. Numbers don't mean anything at all. Sure, you could give a bunch of people guns and play "Meat Shield" with them, but who/what are they going to shoot? Tomahawks? JDAMs and JSOWs dropped from 20+ miles away? Tanks they can't shoot accurately or have to get close with? Artillery that is guided by GPS or other means which can reach 30+ miles?

Those numbers mean nothing when we can mow them down by the thousands. Look at Iraq's army during 91 and 03, it was not even close to a fair fight.

2. Reaching a carrier and even sinking one is a far tougher endevour than you'd think. Having to get through multiple layers of missile defense, including the newer close-in defenses (forgot the name for the CIWS replacement), and then hitting it many many times, is very difficult. I think people underestimate how massive a carrier is and how protected it is. Any war with Iran would require initial strikes against any fixed (or known mobile) launcher that could reach a carrier.

People really forget that armies are nothing but big fat targets for air.

There is no carrier defense system for the "carrier sinking" missile Iran has. They got it from Ukraine if I remember correctly or China. They mass produced their own.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: dyna
The military must have some warehouses it needs to clear out. Everything must go!

lol
Actually this seems to be as good a reason as any given by the "leaders"

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I never understand how the US has survived this long as a nation...you guys have been blowing up the world since Eisenhower became president in the 1960's.

The US can't afford a war against Iraq which has faced sanctions for years. Iran has more money and a *massive* military. I actually think the US would lose very badly to them to the point that they would be ruined as a nation.

Iran's military isn't a threat. I doubt we'd take significant losses. I think a lot of people really underplay the vast strike capabilities we now have, even without considering the airforce.

Just look at the SSGNs, 154 Tomahawks in one sub, as much as a whole carrier group had. They can be switched out pretty quickly since they are in modular tubes. Our subs face almost no threat from their navy, so within an hour we could launch over 300 missiles into Iran, striking their air bases, fixed AA locations, navy locations, barracks, C&C centers.

Surge F-15/16/18/22 into the arena to claim air superiority, take out the remainder of AA belts in progressive strikes using F-117 and B-2 or WW's. Then you JSOW the army formations with B-52/2/B-1 bombers.

Really, before they even got close to our army formations their force capability would be decimated. Our army would just have to hold them as their support and logistics get hammered. Even with portable AA, or man-equipped, arty and more cruise missiles with sub munitions will hammer them.

I think people really confuse our inability to win a limited urban/jungle war, to an all-out destruction of a fighting force. Our armed forces excel at being able to utterly crush enemy armies.

It wouldn't even be fair for them. We found out a decade later that the Soviet forces, even despite their massive size, wouldn't have stood a chance against our forces. The Iranian military is a fraction of the size and is barely more advanced.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

The Islamic Republic of Iran has two kinds of armed forces: the regular forces Islamic Republic of Iran Army, Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, Islamic Republic of Iran Navy and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), totalling about 545,000 active troops. Iran also has around 350,000 Reserve Force totalling around 900,000 trained troops.[94]

Iran also has a paramilitary, volunteer militia force within the IRGC, called the Basij, which includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed members, and a further 11 million men and women who could be mobilized[95] This is the largest number of troop mobilization in the world.

Iran's military capabilities are kept largely secret. Since 1992, it has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, guided missiles, submarines, and fighter planes.[96] In recent years, official announcements have highlighted the development of weapons such as Fajr-3 (MIRV) missile, Hoot, Kowsar, Zelzal, Fateh-110, Shahab-3, and a variety of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The Fajr-3 (MIRV) is currently Iran's most advanced ballistic missile. It is a domestically-developed and produced liquid fuel missile with an unknown range. The IRIS solid-fuelled missile is a program which is supposed to be Iran's first missile to bring satellites into orbit. In 2005, Iran's military spending represented 3.3% of the GDP or $91 per capita, the lowest figure of the Persian Gulf nations.[97] Iran's military doctrine is to defend its territorial integrity only.

I've bolded what I feel refutes your point about their miliary. As powerful as the US military is, I just can't see them wiping out a militia of 11 million people. The boldness at the bottom is why I feel the states should leave them alone.

I don't see why Iran couldn't sink the US aircraft carriers that are there.

1. Numbers don't mean anything at all. Sure, you could give a bunch of people guns and play "Meat Shield" with them, but who/what are they going to shoot? Tomahawks? JDAMs and JSOWs dropped from 20+ miles away? Tanks they can't shoot accurately or have to get close with? Artillery that is guided by GPS or other means which can reach 30+ miles?

Those numbers mean nothing when we can mow them down by the thousands. Look at Iraq's army during 91 and 03, it was not even close to a fair fight.

2. Reaching a carrier and even sinking one is a far tougher endevour than you'd think. Having to get through multiple layers of missile defense, including the newer close-in defenses (forgot the name for the CIWS replacement), and then hitting it many many times, is very difficult. I think people underestimate how massive a carrier is and how protected it is. Any war with Iran would require initial strikes against any fixed (or known mobile) launcher that could reach a carrier.

People really forget that armies are nothing but big fat targets for air.

There is no carrier defense system for the "carrier sinking" missile Iran has. They got it from Ukraine if I remember correctly or China. They mass produced their own.

AEGIS

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Aimster
As long as U.S troops are inside Iraq, Iran can bitch slap U.S troops right back.

So no war as long as the U.S is inside Iraq.

Are you sure about that? Do you understand the world of hurt several carrier groups could inflict on an army that has absolutely nothing to defend against them?

What are carrier groups going to do to Iran?

Iran has air defense systems that can target U.S aircraft that are not stealth and an air campaign is pointless. They also have hundreds if not thousands of drones. They will just send those drones in to Iraq and play hit and run. U.S will play the same game back.

Iran will just launch hundreds of rockets into the green zone on a daily basis. U.S will respond with air strikes.

Iran is not like Iraq. The military is scattered. The populated cities are greatly different from the cities of Iraq. Compare Baghdad to Tehran. It is a completely different scenario.

The only way for U.S troops to end missile attacks would be to invade and they would never make it to Tehran.

 

[Modelworks]

Iran has always scared me.
I remember watching a history channel program about past wars that involved Iran.

The one that scared me most is the conflict with iraq where iran sent its people against iraq without any weapons.

The strategy was "If we send enough of our people at them, the iraq soldiers will eventually run out of ammunition."

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Aimster
As long as U.S troops are inside Iraq, Iran can bitch slap U.S troops right back.

So no war as long as the U.S is inside Iraq.

Are you sure about that? Do you understand the world of hurt several carrier groups could inflict on an army that has absolutely nothing to defend against them?

The only way for U.S troops to end missile attacks would be to invade

Again, I would have to disagree there. Our Navy/Air Force has more than enough capability to completely shut-down a second-rate military (which is what Iran is) from missile launches over short period of time. Sure Iran may be able to fire missiles off, but as soon as they launch, they would give away their position and would be anihilated before they could count to 10.

**edit**

And even if Iran is able to fire some missiles before their launch areas are inevitably destroyed, we have the technology to knock out most, if not all, incoming missiles.